Political Discussion

[Bob from Florida]

It’s a Midwest/rust belt thing. You can find very affordable housing in certain areas because people are leaving. I am from Central IL originally and there are many minor cities Bloomington, Peoria, Springfield, Champaign, etc… that have very affordable homes. Same goes for major Midwest cities like Pittsburgh, Detroit, and Cleveland.

I know these places aren’t for everyone but for me, I currently reside in Tacoma, a city with a fairly high crime rate (mostly non-violent property crime) but if you take certain precautions you are unlikely to experience many issues. and if you are worried about crime rates there are a ton of small towns with even cheaper homes that have very little crime but are further away from culture.

The appeal of a city like Syracuse for me is the older affordable homes which I prefer and that a major University resides within the city meaning even though the city isn’t huge you still have access to Thai Food, Art House Cinema, Live Music, and Record Stores.

My home has doubled in value in the past 8 years. Since I am a remote worker. I could sell my home and with the profits, since I am a remote worker my job would move with me, and I could purchase bigger home and have little to no additional mortgage costs. I don’t know if we will ever actually move back to the Midwest but the cheap real estate makes it a lot more appealing than it did a decade ago.

The problem down in Florida is the further south you go the less friendly the general populace becomes. My wife and I are both native Floridians and have seen significant changes in our lifetimes. If real estate crashes again in the next few years I can see a cabin in the North Georgia mountains in our future. If a culture dose is needed, Atlanta is 2-3 hours away.

 

[TenderLovingKiller®]

The problem down in Florida is the further south you go the less friendly the general populace becomes. My wife and I are both native Floridians and have seen significant changes in our lifetimes. If real estate crashes again in the next few years I can see a cabin in the North Georgia mountains in our future. If a culture dose is needed, Atlanta is 2-3 hours away.

Yeah that doesn’t sound half bad. The older I get the idea of moving to somewhere relatively rural becomes a bit more appealing but at this point I still like to have the ability to putt around town on my Honda Ruckus.

 

[Bull Shannon]

It’s a Midwest/rust belt thing. You can find very affordable housing in certain areas because people are leaving. I am from Central IL originally and there are many minor cities Bloomington, Peoria, Springfield, Champaign, etc… that have very affordable homes. Same goes for major Midwest cities like Pittsburgh, Detroit, and Cleveland.

I know these places aren’t for everyone but for me, I currently reside in Tacoma, a city with a fairly high crime rate (mostly non-violent property crime) but if you take certain precautions you are unlikely to experience many issues. and if you are worried about crime rates there are a ton of small towns with even cheaper homes that have very little crime but are further away from culture.

The appeal of a city like Syracuse for me is the older affordable homes which I prefer and that a major University resides within the city meaning even though the city isn’t huge you still have access to Thai Food, Art House Cinema, Live Music, and Record Stores.

My home has doubled in value in the past 8 years. Since I am a remote worker. I could sell my home and with the profits, since I am a remote worker my job would move with me, and I could purchase bigger home and have little to no additional mortgage costs. I don’t know if we will ever actually move back to the Midwest but the cheap real estate makes it a lot more appealing than it did a decade ago.

This thread is making me realize just how good KY has it. My mortgage is 950, and I split it with my brother.

I'm currently house hunting in Portland and holy moly I wish I didn't like this town and have such deep roots at this point, because we've budgeted out a $3500 mortgage and are on the low end of houses you can find here. The market was a lot worse 4 years ago and it's a bit more of a buyer's market, but there are still bidding wars going for the more appealing homes. It's not uncommon to see listings over my budget for truly unappealing homes.

We were considering Vermont so I get a lot of Redfin listings for houses in the upstate NY/VT/NH/MA area, and you can find some truly gorgeous old homes, on decent parcels of land, for incredibly reasonable prices. Same with Indianapolis/Bloomington, where we visited for the eclipse. A big offset is less access to concerts or cinemas, but I keep trying to remind myself I'm spoiled living in a coastal hipster city and walking distance from a 70mm movie house.

 

[Bull Shannon]

Cool cool cool; wish this meant consequences were incoming:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/07/us/supreme-court-disclosures-gifts.html?campaign_id=190&emc=edit_ufn_20240607&instance_id=125687&nl=from-the-times&regi_id=51792076&segment_id=169013&te=1&user_id=0fcd85f4ea8bb52d1bffd9ead1fca497

 

[ranbalam]

Same goes for major Midwest cities like Pittsburgh, Detroit, and Cleveland

My home has doubled in value in the past 8 years

I bought in a Detroit suburb in 2001, and I got one of the very last houses under 200K back then. It was "only" 172 then. I've added on and renovated; my current value is now about triple what I originally paid. Sounds like selling would be a nice payday, until we think about leaving. We have a walkable town with a couple breweries and lots of bars and restaurants. We can't think of anywhere in this area we'd rather be, and leaving the state isn't an option. So at this point I think we have officially hit the age where a new expensive mortgage works against our retirement goals...we decided we're staying until...well, dirt nap time.

 

[Bull Shannon]

3500 is literally 3x my mortgage (bought in 2008, refinanced in 2014) for 2800 sq ft of living space, plus a fenced in yard and a 2 car garage. I'm 3 blocks from Luna Music and a bunch of favorite neighborhood restaurants. The Monon Trail is across the street, Indy's first rapid transit bus line is a couple of blocks away, like 8 new indie bookstores have opened in the last year, the KanKan Cinema is a 10 minute drive, there's a true IMAX downtown, traffic is virtually never gridlocked...we have basketball, football, baseball, IndyCar, and soon soccer...and even when we're not on the tour circuit, you can get to Louisville/Cinci/Chicago within 2-2.5 hours each.

We're landlocked, the weather and the air quality suck, and the politics are troubling. It's not exactly a hub of culture & diversity, but it's affordable, friendly, and gives you access to everything you'd really need, if you're willing to look for it.

If I wasn't already a midwesterner it's not like I'd ever want to vacation here, but there's plenty to be said for it as a home base.

ETA: name an amenity that isn't limited by geography and I bet it's here already. Ikea? Got it. Trader Joe's? 2 of 'em. Costco? Several. Beer? Hell, we can even buy it on Sundays now. Museums, a zoo, concert venues...the food scene has promise, even if it's never going to excite somebody coming from more of a foodie city.

Just sayin'...anybody ever wants to be my neighbor, hit me up.

Don't get me wrong, it's super appealing for all the reasons you list. Our current approach is to be super picky about Portland houses; we could afford something just-fine in the suburbs, but a lot of the architecture on the west coast is...uninspiring, and we're kinda of the mind that if we're going to be a 20-minute drive from the stuff we want, why not make it a 45-minute drive and live somewhere less crowded. And if we can't find something which checks the boxes over the summer, we're going to branch out to scoping other states.

 

[LiamGallaghersBucketHat]

My wife bought her house in 2012 prior to meeting me. The mortgage is less than $800 a month. We are out in the burbs about 25ish minutes from the heart of Las Vegas. We have entertained the idea of living more centrally because so much of what we do is in the downtown area, but housing has doubled and in some areas tripled due to demand and the transformation of this city into a sports town. We'd also have to factor in the cost of sending our daughter to a private school because the schools in that area are not the best. Before I met her, I was always a renter and now that costs are out of control, I see the value in home ownership. I feel bad for those that are at the mercy of greedy landlords/corporations.

 

[6od]

We had some of these issues at our last place here and the management company was a nightmare of the most horrible humans I've ever had to deal with in a housing situation. I talked to a lawyer only to learn that Georgia doesn't have any laws to protect tenants. It was literally this year, 2024, that the governor finally signed a law saying that places have to be fit for human occupancy.

holy shit. people say california tenant laws are too good for the tenants and screw over the landlords, but even with our protections people are fucked over because they have to go to and represent themselves in court, and they don't know how. people are being evicted in DROVES. it's shameful.

Have you consider moving to Syracuse, NY?

I have and I own an affordable home…

106 Wellesley Rd, Syracuse, NY 13207 | Zillow

106 Wellesley Rd, Syracuse NY, is a Single Family home that contains 2184 sq ft and was built in 1925.It contains 4 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms.This home last sold for $230,000 in July 2024. The Zestimate for this Single Family is $234,200, which has increased by $2,000 in the last 30 days.The...

www.zillow.com

213 May Ave, Syracuse, NY 13207 | Zillow

213 May Ave, Syracuse NY, is a Single Family home that contains 1292 sq ft and was built in 1935.It contains 3 bedrooms and 1 bathroom.This home last sold for $72,100 in August 2024. The Zestimate for this Single Family is $72,700, which has increased by $2,880 in the last 30 days.The Rent...

www.zillow.com

408 Salt Springs Rd, Syracuse, NY 13224 | Zillow

408 Salt Springs Rd, Syracuse NY, is a Single Family home that contains 2228 sq ft and was built in 1932.It contains 4 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms.This home last sold for $315,000 in July 2024. The Zestimate for this Single Family is $319,800, which has increased by $4,400 in the last 30 days.The...

www.zillow.com

i'm crying

Was just talking to someone about the insane month to month rent. It's actually a lot more prevalent in the north east than I thought. Pretty much any rental property managed by a corporation in Eastern MA, RI, CT, Southern NH and Southern ME are doing this and have been hiking the month to month rates for the last several years.

It's all about extracting as much capital as they can get, and in this area there are a lot of traveling nurses. These high month to month rates or shorter lease terms are all about fleecing traveling nurses. Get as much as they can out of them. Algorithms have calculated these rates as the maximum they can get for the area.

And I'll tell you what, there have been a lot of traveling nurses in and out of my place since 2020.

it's all over the west coast, too.

i was looking at places to rent from oregon to san diego near the coast, thinking surely there's gotta be something reasonable compared to my place, being i live in the heart of los angeles. but no. it was fuckin' wild. i couldn't believe it. and i don't mean beachfront. i just mean as close to the coast as i am now.

What’s the catch? All three are quite old, which could indicate significant maintenance issues. Tax rates in Syracuse - what would the real estate tax be? Insurance, crime rate, etc? Has to be a reason as these are quite cheap compared to my neck of the woods.

Two answers below courtesy of Google. May as well check real estate prices in Detroit- could be on par with the below.


Why is real estate so cheap in Syracuse?


Syracuse home prices – depressed by decades of population loss, poverty and job cuts– are so low they discourage new construction and major renovations unless they are heavily subsidized, according to the study by czb LLC, a Maine consulting firm. And the city needs lots of building and renovation.May 23, 2023



With a crime rate of 42 per one thousand residents, Syracuse has one of the highest crime rates in America compared to all communities of all sizes - from the smallest towns to the very largest cities. One's chance of becoming a victim of either violent or property crime here is one in 24.

Syracuse, NY Crime Rates and Statistics - NeighborhoodScout​

okay but what are the crimes?

 

[Jonathan Y]

The problem down in Florida is the further south you go the less friendly the general populace becomes. My wife and I are both native Floridians and have seen significant changes in our lifetimes. If real estate crashes again in the next few years I can see a cabin in the North Georgia mountains in our future. If a culture dose is needed, Atlanta is 2-3 hours away.

Here in Tampa it's getting to be absolutely insane. My wife and i were lucky to get our house in 2017 for a great deal but we can't sell it when the kid heads to elementary school in a few years and stay around the city due to the spike in prices and rates. Sad that my family in Panama City Beach, where I was born, is also dealing with the exact same issue just at a slightly slower pace/lower prices. Everyone started moving here when covid hit from the northeast and Cali with money and have spiked the market

 

[TenderLovingKiller®]

Cali with money and have spiked the market

Washington State, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Utah, Texas, Colorado, and Florida don’t have much in common but we but we are all united in our irrational scapegoating California ex pats for ruining our local real estate markets.

In Tacoma we mostly blame Seattle.

 

[LiamGallaghersBucketHat]

Washington State, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Utah, Texas, Colorado, and Florida don’t have much in common but we but we are all united in our irrational scapegoating California ex pats for ruining our local real estate markets.

In Tacoma we mostly blame Seattle.

I’d be curious to see the actual percentage of Californians who are moving to said states. There are lunkheads here who use the slogan, Don’t California My Nevada like they own the state.

 

[TenderLovingKiller®]

I’d be curious to see the actual percentage of Californians who are moving to said states. There are lunkheads here who use the slogan, Don’t California My Nevada like they own the state.

In 2022 a 100k Californian’s relocated to Texas, 75k to Arizona, and 50k each to Nevada, Washington State and Florida. Thats a solid influx year-to-year.

Leaving California: These were the top destinations for Californians who moved in 2022

The California exodus continues, new Census data released Thursday shows. In 2022, more than 817,000 people left the Golden State for somewhere else in the U.S.

ktla.com

 

[Jonathan Y]

I’d be curious to see the actual percentage of Californians who are moving to said states. There are lunkheads here who use the slogan, Don’t California My Nevada like they own the state.

In 2022 a 100k Californian’s relocated to Texas, 75k to Arizona, and 50k each to Nevada, Washington State and Florida. Thats a solid influx year-to-year.

Leaving California: These were the top destinations for Californians who moved in 2022

The California exodus continues, new Census data released Thursday shows. In 2022, more than 817,000 people left the Golden State for somewhere else in the U.S.

ktla.com

Here are how many New Yorkers moved to Florida in 2023, and why they’re moving

About 545,500 residents left New York last year, with nearly 100,000 heading for the Sunshine State. Why made them decide Florida was their new home?

www.palmbeachpost.com

And we had 91k Yankees in 2022

Edit: and these have been the numbers for FL basically since COVID hit

 

[LiamGallaghersBucketHat]

In 2022 a 100k Californian’s relocated to Texas, 75k to Arizona, and 50k each to Nevada, Washington State and Florida. Thats a solid influx year-to-year.

Leaving California: These were the top destinations for Californians who moved in 2022

The California exodus continues, new Census data released Thursday shows. In 2022, more than 817,000 people left the Golden State for somewhere else in the U.S.

ktla.com

This report shows a little less for Nevada.

Californians are moving to Nevada in droves | Housing | Business

Data from the Nevada Department of Motor Vehicles sheds new light on the migration of Californians to the Silver State.

www.reviewjournal.com

Still a good amount of people.

 

[RenegadeMonster]

Housing is considerably cheaper in the Virginia Beach or Charlotte NC area. So I'm explorer some options there.

I get get a 2 bd room 2 bath apartment for about $500 less than my 1 bedroom in Salem. And $1,000 less or so for a 1 bedroom.

Are townhouses or condos a path I should also explore?

700 Rue Marseille, Chesapeake, VA 23320 | Zillow

700 Rue Marseille, Chesapeake VA, is a Condo home that contains 1158 sq ft and was built in 1995.It contains 2 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms. The Zestimate for this Condo is $216,000, which has increased by $12,180 in the last 30 days.The Rent Zestimate for this Condo is $2,045/mo, which has...

www.zillow.com

103 Scotts Point #2, Hampton, VA 23663 | Zillow

103 Scotts Point #2, Hampton VA. The Zestimate for this property is $266,900, which has increased by $266,900 in the last 30 days.The Rent Zestimate for this property is $1,853/mo, which has increased by $1,853/mo in the last 30 days.

www.zillow.com

Even with HOA, these come in cheaper than my current apartment. However my mother says I'm out of my mind. No bank would approve me for any loan/mortgage because of my student loans and the fact that I have nothing saved up for a down payment. Are those blockers, or is it still worth exploring?

 

[TenderLovingKiller®]

Are townhouses or condos a path I should also explore?

Sure! As long ans you’re buying instead of renting. Anything with a fixed rate mortgage is going to be better than renting. You have a rate locked in and are building equity. If rates go up your rate is locked, if the rates go down, you refinance and lock in a better rate. All the while you build equity. I have made a good amount of money in the past 8 years just living in my home and making my monthly mortgage payments and vast majority of my mortgage payment is really only covering the interest at this point. If you plan on potentially relocating to another state look into first time homeowner grants and programs they can really help you out through the process.

 

[Angsty]

Housing is considerably cheaper in the Virginia Beach or Charlotte NC area. So I'm explorer some options there.

I get get a 2 bd room 2 bath apartment for about $500 less than my 1 bedroom in Salem. And $1,000 less or so for a 1 bedroom.

Are townhouses or condos a path I should also explore?

700 Rue Marseille, Chesapeake, VA 23320 | Zillow

700 Rue Marseille, Chesapeake VA, is a Condo home that contains 1158 sq ft and was built in 1995.It contains 2 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms. The Zestimate for this Condo is $216,000, which has increased by $12,180 in the last 30 days.The Rent Zestimate for this Condo is $2,045/mo, which has...

www.zillow.com

103 Scotts Point #2, Hampton, VA 23663 | Zillow

103 Scotts Point #2, Hampton VA. The Zestimate for this property is $266,900, which has increased by $266,900 in the last 30 days.The Rent Zestimate for this property is $1,853/mo, which has increased by $1,853/mo in the last 30 days.

www.zillow.com

Even with HOA, these come in cheaper than my current apartment. However my mother says I'm out of my mind. No bank would approve me for any loan/mortgage because of my student loans and the fact that I have nothing saved up for a down payment. Are those blockers, or is it still worth exploring?

Come on down to Charlotte - it’s pretty nice here!

 

[Angsty]

Washington State, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Utah, Texas, Colorado, and Florida don’t have much in common but we but we are all united in our irrational scapegoating California ex pats for ruining our local real estate markets.

In Tacoma we mostly blame Seattle.

We blame New Yorkers in North Carolina! Being a major banking center, Charlotte has quite the influx from there. Curiously, we get a lot of folks from Miami, too.

 

[mdmost]

Washington State, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Utah, Texas, Colorado, and Florida don’t have much in common but we but we are all united in our irrational scapegoating California ex pats for ruining our local real estate markets.

In Tacoma we mostly blame Seattle.

The most laughable thing I hear in Texas is people saying "Don't California My Texas". The people who move here aren't the granola hippies that are the stereotype these people fear. The people from California who move here have only made the red state more red. I wish they'd California our Texas more so we can end the MAGA stranglehold at the state level. There's a reason the suburbs of any Texas city are ridiculously red. That's where they all move to. I feel terrible for people who flee California due to high costs and wanting no state income tax. You are replacing that with higher property taxes and 100+ degree consistent baking your flesh heat and a shifty electric grid and water supply that's only going to get worse. But hey, no state income tax!

 

[TenderLovingKiller®]

The most laughable thing I hear in Texas is people saying "Don't California My Texas". The people who move here aren't the granola hippies that are the stereotype these people fear. The people from California who move here have only made the red state more red. I wish they'd California our Texas more so we can end the MAGA stranglehold at the state level. There's a reason the suburbs of any Texas city are ridiculously red. That's where they all move to. I feel terrible for people who flee California due to high costs and wanting no state income tax. You are replacing that with higher property taxes and 100+ degree consistent baking your flesh heat and a shifty electric grid and water supply that's only going to get worse. But hey, no state income tax!

Yeah, we get all the hippies and Non-MAGA tech bros up here.

Lots of folks don’t realize that more people voted for Trump in California in than voted for Trump in Texas in 2020. California could be competitive if the GOP ever ran a non-insane candidate for statewide office which isn’t a likely scenario at this point.