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Might be missing something, but is the 20/20 all battery powered? Is there an option to plug if desired?

If battery powered, is that the only key difference, and how long does it typically last before changing batteries?
 
Melt Face Molly Drop said:
Might be missing something, but is the 20/20 all battery powered? Is there an option to plug if desired?

If battery powered, is that the only key difference, and how long does it typically last before changing batteries?
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The 20/20 is wall-powered. It uses two supplies, one for each side. The optional LPS reduces that to one plug with two connectors.

It's been a few years since Sutherland did a battery-driven phono.
 
kvetcha said:
The 20/20 is wall-powered. It uses two supplies, one for each side. The optional LPS reduces that to one plug with two connectors.

It's been a few years since Sutherland did a battery-driven phono.
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One for each side... maybe I'm missing where the plug-ins are. I know the Duo has a plug in for each but this seems to only have one unit:

sutherlandengineering.com

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Begin your Sutherland Journey Transimpedance Loco Performance for low output-low impedance MC cartridges. Dos LOCOS - $9,800 TZ Direct - $8,500 Little LOCO MK 2 - $3,800 TZ Vibe - $1,400 Transimpedance Step-Up SUTZ - $3,800 Transimpedance Step-Up Moving Magnet / Moving Coil Maximum cartridge...
sutherlandengineering.com sutherlandengineering.com
 
Melt Face Molly Drop said:
One for each side... maybe I'm missing where the plug-ins are. I know the Duo has a plug in for each but this seems to only have one unit:

sutherlandengineering.com

(no title)

Begin your Sutherland Journey Transimpedance Loco Performance for low output-low impedance MC cartridges. Dos LOCOS - $9,800 TZ Direct - $8,500 Little LOCO MK 2 - $3,800 TZ Vibe - $1,400 Transimpedance Step-Up SUTZ - $3,800 Transimpedance Step-Up Moving Magnet / Moving Coil Maximum cartridge...
sutherlandengineering.com sutherlandengineering.com
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The plugs are at the front of the chassis. There are markings that say POWER -> on each side.

The wires just run out from underneath the unit in the back.
 
Ghost said:
You guys think it would be incredibly noticeable upgrading from an Insight 20/20 or should I hold off and save for something like the duo or a higher end phono/pre?
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I can't really speak to the direct comparison, but what drew me to the 20/20 was the dual mono design and the pure channel separation that promised, even if I'm mushing it all up again in the amplifier stage.
 
kvetcha said:
I can't really speak to the direct comparison, but what drew me to the 20/20 was the dual mono design and the pure channel separation that promised, even if I'm mushing it all up again in the amplifier stage.
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I haven’t heard the Duo, so I can’t them. I believe the Duo was born of the 20/20 and the $10k Phonoblock. So, somewhere in the Duo is some DNA from both.

I can say the 20/20’s true dual mono construction, it’s basically two devices with a shared faceplate, is really effective. It’s a very solid phono pre. I also have heard the LPS isn’t needed, but was a concession to those asking and Ron’s friend built one, so Ron just let it be for those who feel it’s wanted.
 
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Angsty said:
I think @HiFi Guy held out for the Duos - may be a good one to respond.
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@Ghost I’ve not heard the 20/20 but I’ll explain my logic. Understand that my logic may be flawed.

I’ve heard 3 Sutherland units- the first generation Vibe, the Insight and the Duos.

As I stated up thread, I’m not a fan of the Vibe. I actually think it doesn’t sound as good as the iFi iPhono2. At the time, the iPhono2 was $499 and the Vibe was $900. The iPhono2 I had overheated and broke under warranty. They replaced the board with the latest revision, but I lost confidence in it and sold it.

I’m a big believer in power supplies and their ability to not only affect the overall sound quality but exhibit a low noise floor. This is very important for dynamics. The power supply “brick” is shared between the Vibe and the 20/20. The 20/20 has more filter capacitors and resistors so should have a lower noise floor than the Vibe. I kind of see the 20/20 as an upgraded dual mono Vibe.

The Insight and the Duos share the same power supply, but the Duo has lots more filter caps and resistors. It’s dead quiet. The two sound similar though. My big performance upgrade was adding a pair of vintage Sony SUTs to the Duos- $150. Noise dropped to quieter than I thought possible. Now it sounds like $4k phono stage should in my opinion. The Duos are better than the Insight, but it’s subtle.

But given what I’ve learned, I think I could come very very close to what I’ve got here for a hell of a lot less money;

Le Son LS-10 Mk II MC cartridge $1260
Darlington Labs MM6B loaded $539
Sony HA-10T SUTs $150
Total $1949
 
Ghost said:
You guys think it would be incredibly noticeable upgrading from an Insight 20/20 or should I hold off and save for something like the duo or a higher end phono/pre?
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Per @HiFi Guy ‘s experience, you may find adding a SUT to be a meaningful upgrade using the Insight, if you are running a MC cart.

The Insight is unique in the Sutherland line-up in having a 10K ohm loading. Using a 20dB, 1:10 SUT, the 10K ohm setting provides a cartridge load of 100 ohms which works well for many MC cartridges. Using the 47K setting with the same step-up provides a 470K cartridge load.
 
Just some inside pics of the 20/20 showing the dual layout and where the power cables come in. The shots also show how the left and right sides are separated and isolated from each other, just sharing the fascia and rear plate.

IMG_1776.jpeg

IMG_1779.jpeg

It uses dual outboard SMPS (and a lot of filtering), so two plugs.
IMG_1780.jpeg

And each side is identical, so you need to set loading and gain on both boards.
IMG_1778.jpeg
 
SnowmaNick said:
Just some inside pics of the 20/20 showing the dual layout and where the power cables come in. The shots also show how the left and right sides are separated and isolated from each other, just sharing the fascia and rear plate.

View attachment 197328

View attachment 197329

It uses dual outboard SMPS (and a lot of filtering), so two plugs.
View attachment 197331

And each side is identical, so you need to set loading and gain on both boards.
View attachment 197330
Click to expand...
Needs to be flagged NSFW for gear porn.
 
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