Television

I've been enjoying the hell out of WandaVision. I didn't foresee myself being as invested in it as I am, but it's got me hooked. I'll admit I'm a bit iffy on the MCU going forward (Endgame seemed to be an appropriate conclusion and there's part of me that feels like continuing past it just feels unnecessary) but this series has certainly got me intrigued in the universe again.
 
gaporter said:
I've been enjoying the hell out of WandaVision. I didn't foresee myself being as invested in it as I am, but it's got me hooked. I'll admit I'm a bit iffy on the MCU going forward (Endgame seemed to be an appropriate conclusion and there's part of me that feels like continuing past it just feels unnecessary) but this series has certainly got me intrigued in the universe again.
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Agreed ...just watched up to date over the last two nights..excellent tv
 
gaporter said:
I've been enjoying the hell out of WandaVision. I didn't foresee myself being as invested in it as I am, but it's got me hooked. I'll admit I'm a bit iffy on the MCU going forward (Endgame seemed to be an appropriate conclusion and there's part of me that feels like continuing past it just feels unnecessary) but this series has certainly got me intrigued in the universe again.
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I love that it is being released on a weekly basis instead of one full season that you quickly go through. There's so many layers, riddles, and Easter eggs. My kids love trying to figure out what's going on. Strangely, and this is a lot coming from a Star Wars nerd, I enjoy and look forward to WandaVision a lot more than the Mandalorian. Mando was great but the storyline of WandaVision is so good.
 
Got to see the first installment of Men in Kilts. It's a fun treat for anyone who wants to see Scotland. Plus, Jamie.....
 
I'm finding Tony basically insufferable during my re-watch of this last season of The Sopranos. It reminds me of my Mad Men re-watch, where I really had a hard time feeling anything but disdain for Don Draper through most of it.

And I'm finding the stuff with AJ to be absolutely heartbreaking this time.
His suicide attempt followed by when Tony pulls him out of the pool was all so dark and sad.
 
ranbalam said:
I'm finding Tony basically insufferable during my re-watch of this last season of The Sopranos. It reminds me of my Mad Men re-watch, where I really had a hard time feeling anything but disdain for Don Draper through most of it.

And I'm finding the stuff with AJ to be absolutely heartbreaking this time.
His suicide attempt followed by when Tony pulls him out of the pool was all so dark and sad.
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It's crazy how a couple of years gives more perspective. I rewatched Breaking Bad early last year and hated Walt right from the start. I recall not hating him until Season 4~ when it was airing. I've started slowly working through Mad Men again this year, I'm just at the end of Season 1, and am already starting to hate Don for how he treats Adam. I don't recall hating him at all when it aired. He isn't as bad as Walt or Tony, but still. I have not rewatched The Sopranos since I got into it in 2015~ but I reckon I'd feel some more disdain.
 
wokeupnew said:
It's crazy how a couple of years gives more perspective. I rewatched Breaking Bad early last year and hated Walt right from the start. I recall not hating him until Season 4~ when it was airing. I've started slowly working through Mad Men again this year, I'm just at the end of Season 1, and am already starting to hate Don for how he treats Adam. I don't recall hating him at all when it aired. He isn't as bad as Walt or Tony, but still. I have not rewatched The Sopranos since I got into it in 2015~ but I reckon I'd feel some more disdain.
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That's another good example, Walter White...he's pretty selfish and awful through so much of it.

What's interesting to me is, in a second watch of Deadwood I liked Al Swearengen a ton more.
 
wokeupnew said:
It's crazy how a couple of years gives more perspective. I rewatched Breaking Bad early last year and hated Walt right from the start. I recall not hating him until Season 4~ when it was airing. I've started slowly working through Mad Men again this year, I'm just at the end of Season 1, and am already starting to hate Don for how he treats Adam. I don't recall hating him at all when it aired. He isn't as bad as Walt or Tony, but still. I have not rewatched The Sopranos since I got into it in 2015~ but I reckon I'd feel some more disdain.
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I thought the point of Breaking Bad was that you were supposed to hate Walt's rapid, and ever deepening, descent into evil and view it as a fascinating character study, and I appreciated it for that. Mad Men on the other hand, I hated everyone in it and I didn't get the point or find the overall story, in the first couple of seasons at least, compelling enough to warrant that, so I never finished it.
 
ranbalam said:
What's interesting to me is, in a second watch of Deadwood I liked Al Swearengen a ton more.
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Yup. I thought the same thing. Al is still not a good person but I remember going into my rewatch thinking he was the villain but upon rewatching I found it much more complicated. He is a selfish prick and will do whatever it takes to stay on top but Al wasn’t heartless either and took care of the people around him that needed taken care of.
 
dhodo said:
I thought the point of Breaking Bad was that you were supposed to hate Walt's rapid, and ever deepening, descent into evil and view it as a fascinating character study, and I appreciated it for that. Mad Men on the other hand, I hated everyone in it and I didn't get the point or find the overall story, in the first couple of seasons, compelling enough to warrant that, so I never finished it.
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That probably is the point, but he's set up as the main protagonist so you want to support his actions even when he makes awful choices. So people cling on for longer than they should. Mad Men is much more character driven, less plot driven. Don is the main character but not really as important to the story as Walt is to Breaking Bad, for example.
 
wokeupnew said:
That probably is the point, but he's set up as the main protagonist so you want to support his actions even when he makes awful choices. So people cling on for longer than they should. Mad Men is much more character driven, less plot driven. Don is the main character but not really as important to the story as Walt is to Breaking Bad, for example.
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I think that is where the divide falls with people that love or hate breaking bad (except maybe the people who just think "drugs and murder are cool!") The people that really want someone to root for and feel good about got left behind in that show. I think he is clearly an anti-hero and even though it is possible to pretend that his actions are justified at first, it doesn't take long to become clear that he goes (and keeps going) way farther than he needed to down the criminal path if it was just about his family.

It's been a long time but from what I remember Mad Men seemed, to me, like just a bunch of incredibly selfish assholes going about their lives and it wasn't a world that I was interested in just hanging out in or found enjoyable. I didn't find any of those character studies as interesting I guess.
 
dhodo said:
I thought the point of Breaking Bad was that you were supposed to hate Walt's rapid, and ever deepening, descent into evil and view it as a fascinating character study, and I appreciated it for that. Mad Men on the other hand, I hated everyone in it and I didn't get the point or find the overall story, in the first couple of seasons at least, compelling enough to warrant that, so I never finished it.
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What blows my mind is the Scarface-esque cultural tail Walter White has as a hero for aspirational badasses. Nothing he does is good, everything is out of ego but in the name of his family, and some fans really fall for it.

I think Tony Soprano (and the overall cast of The Sopranos) manages to be completely deplorable, but entertaining to watch. The show's pretty clear that he's a monster and gleefully dares to you stop watching.
 
dhodo said:
I thought the point of Breaking Bad was that you were supposed to hate Walt's rapid descent into evil and I appreciated it for that. Mad Men on the other hand, I hated everyone in it and I didn't get the point or find the overall story, in the first couple of seasons, compelling enough to warrant that, so I never finished it.
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Mad Men is my favorite TV drama of all times but I still haven’t found a way to encapsulate why. Most of the characters are flawed and nuanced. I love the look of the show and the evolution, not only of some of the characters but also of the 1960s (the slow decent of Pete Campbell’s hairline is immaculately done). It is also much funnier (in a very dark sense) than it gets credit for. Their are several redeeming characters, most of the women in particular a worthy; Peggy, Joan, Megan, even Sally (especially Sally). The two biggest flaws I have with the show overall, is them deciding to stick January Jones in a fat suit for an entire season and the whole “Glen” character which seemed more like a way to shoe-horn in Matthew Weiner’s son into the show for the sake of an acting career.

I will say I am not convinced Mad Men is for everyone. I have a hard time explaining its brilliance to those that don’t care for it. Strictly from an aesthetics standpoint, if the show was complete devoid of plot and was just a bunch of recreated images of 1960s New York and LA, I think I would have still watched the whole thing. It’s an incredibly well crafted show.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
Mad Men is my favorite TV drama of all times but I still haven’t found a way to encapsulate why. Most of the characters are flawed and nuanced. I love the look of the show and the evolution, not only of some of the characters but also of the 1960s (the slow decent of Pete Campbell’s hairline is immaculately done). It is also much funnier (in a very dark sense) than it gets credit for. Their are several redeeming characters, most of the women in particular a worthy; Peggy, Joan, Megan, even Sally (especially Sally). The two biggest flaws I have with the show overall, is them deciding to stick January Jones in a fat suit for an entire season and the whole “Glen” character which seemed more like a way to shoe-horn in Matthew Weiner’s son into the show for the sake of an acting career.

I will say I am not convinced Mad Men is for everyone. I have a hard time explaining its brilliance to those that don’t care for it. Strictly from an aesthetics standpoint, if the show was complete devoid of plot and was just a bunch of recreated images of 1960s New York and LA, I think I would have still watched the whole thing. It’s an incredibly well crafted show.
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I agree, it helps to be into the 1960s/mid-century aesthetics for it to really work. I love that, so I would have probably kept watching too. I remember watching all of Pan Am for that same reason when it aired even though it was not a very good show.

Mad Men is very formal and neat. Everyone is fancy, eloquent and put together on the surface, but then behind the scenes it's obvious not that way. Workplaces were so structured compared to what we have today. There would be no secretaries for the executives in today's offices, there would be no switchboard operators or sandwich cart guys, no drinking or smoking or any of that. It is fascinating seeing how different things were in that time period.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
Mad Men is my favorite TV drama of all times but I still haven’t found a way to encapsulate why. Most of the characters are flawed and nuanced. I love the look of the show and the evolution, not only of some of the characters but also of the 1960s (the slow decent of Pete Campbell’s hairline is immaculately done). It is also much funnier (in a very dark sense) than it gets credit for. Their are several redeeming characters, most of the women in particular a worthy; Peggy, Joan, Megan, even Sally (especially Sally). The two biggest flaws I have with the show overall, is them deciding to stick January Jones in a fat suit for an entire season and the whole “Glen” character which seemed more like a way to shoe-horn in Matthew Weiner’s son into the show for the sake of an acting career.

I will say I am not convinced Mad Men is for everyone. I have a hard time explaining its brilliance to those that don’t care for it. Strictly from an aesthetics standpoint, if the show was complete devoid of plot and was just a bunch of recreated images of 1960s New York and LA, I think I would have still watched the whole thing. It’s an incredibly well crafted show.
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I still am convinced I missed something, because so many people love it. I just couldn't figure it out and we definitely got to a point where we weren't remotely eagerly anticipating the next episode. I'll give it another shot someday.
 
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