The Dark Side; Digital audio equipment recommendations and setup.

Angsty said:
I'm skeptical of the benefits of op amp swapping; there is a lot more to a solid-state audio circuit than just the op amp. The design of the circuit should take into account the specifications of the chip. It does help to sell more, higher-priced op amps.
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No doubt. I guess Fosi and Sparkos are in business together.
Knowing that it makes sense to market this way.
I'm still unsure how different DACs can vary so much in price.
With analog gear, the difference in a build of an item is way more visually obvious/tangible.
 
Jbraswell said:
No doubt. I guess Fosi and Sparkos are in business together.
Knowing that it makes sense to market this way.
I'm still unsure how different DACs can vary so much in price.
With analog gear, the difference in a build of an item is way more visually obvious/tangible.
Click to expand...
The items in the picture were op amps vs. DACs. DAC rolling is less of a thing because DACs don't have standardized pinouts.

Both DACs and op amps can vary in price due to the newness and/or complexity of the internal circuit architecture. In the most basic terms, new designs have to pay-back the cost of R&D and manufacturing start-up that older products have already paid off. The measured differences between the newest DACs and op amps compared to designs 10 or more years old tend to be slight. These devices are orders of magnitude less complicated than other ICs, like CPUs or GPUs, to which they may be compared in terms of product cycle.

I'm very wary of the adjectives used to describe op amp and DAC performance. The descriptors can be highly suggestive such that people "hear" what has been suggested versus there being meaningful differences in measured performance. AKM's "velvet sound" DACs come to mind.
 
Jbraswell said:
I am poking around at cheap DAC's to see if I want to upgrade to the newer Node models.

I was today years old when I found out swapping chips is the new tube rolling.

Does anyone have experience with the Fosi ZD3 DAC?

View attachment 221386
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I am familiar but don’t own one

Personally, I have found that op-amps can make a significant difference
I have a Geshelli J2 4499 Socketed with a Sparkos SS3602 which was added after I received it.

The Fosi ZD3 is socketed for op-amp swaps, so there is that, but it is using the same DAC chip as the Node Nano which I also use with an external DAC. The ZD3 is a good digital pre-amplifier based on the reviews and a good DAC as well.

As to op-amps, I prefer the Burson V7 Vivid or the V7 Classic (warmer) over the Sparkos.
 
Middle Earth said:
I am familiar but don’t own one

Personally, I have found that op-amps can make a significant difference
I have a Geshelli J2 4499 Socketed with a Sparkos SS3602 which was added after I received it.

The Fosi ZD3 is socketed for op-amp swaps, so there is that, but it is using the same DAC chip as the Node Nano which I also use with an external DAC. The ZD3 is a good digital pre-amplifier based on the reviews and a good DAC as well.

As to op-amps, I prefer the Burson V7 Vivid or the V7 Classic (warmer) over the Sparkos.
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We're do you normally source the op-amps?
 
On another note, this is the squirrelly tech Bluesound is deploying with the new Node products.
No native DSD playback kind of kills the upgraditis on my N130 (2021).

They have brought out the monster MQA defibrillator for this flat lined tech.

www.theabsolutesound.com

QRONO by MQA Labs™ Hits the Market - The Absolute Sound

QRONO by MQA Labs™ Hits the Market - MQA Labs, the audio IP team within the Lenbrook Media Group, is announcing two innovative technologies within its QRONO product line.
www.theabsolutesound.com www.theabsolutesound.com
 
DACs and op-amps are both subject to controversy.
I am more digital and vinyl adjacent as I sold my record collection from the 60s/70s/early 80s and went to CDs and now added streaming and back to some vinyl.
Let’s just say I am old and I have seen a lot of change in my life.
Jbraswell said:
No doubt. I guess Fosi and Sparkos are in business together.
Knowing that it makes sense to market this way.
I'm still unsure how different DACs can vary so much in price.
With analog gear, the difference in a build of an item is way more visually obvious/tangible.
Click to expand...

Is my $1,200 Holo Cyan 2 R2R DAC better than my Geshelli J2 AKM 4499 DAC ?
I, and many/most others would say yes.
Is a $26k Playback Designs MPD-8 Dream DAC better than my Cyan 2 I expect it is and it is highly regarded.
The differences in DACs from a $10 cell phone dongle to $100k plus DAC is a matter of degrees and some, not me, say there is little to no difference.
My expectation is that you would appreciate an external DAC in your digital chain with your Node or other streamer.
I am on a budget but my end-game DAC will be $3k or less and right now my favorite DAC cost me $850.
Fosi is unrelated to Sparkos and the closest relationship would be Sparkos and Geshelli in the DAC world both being from the USA.
Get the DAC that best serves your budget obviously.
 
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Middle Earth said:
DACs and op-amps are both subject to controversy.
I am more digital and vinyl adjacent as I sold my record collection from the 60s/70s/early 80s and went to CDs and now added streaming and back to some vinyl.
Let’s just say I am old and I have seen a lot of change in my life.


Is my $1,200 Holo Cyan 2 R2R DAC better than my Geshelli J2 AKM 4499 DAC ?
I, and many/most others would say yes.
Is a $26k Playback Designs MPD-8 Dream DAC better than my Cyan 2 I expect it is and it is highly regarded.
The differences in DACs from a $10 cell phone dongle to $100k plus DAC is a matter of degrees and some, not me, say there is little to no difference.
My expectation is that you would appreciate an external DAC in your digital chain with your Node or other streamer.
I am on a budget but my end-game DAC will be $3k or less and right now my favorite DAC cost me $850.
Fosi is unrelated to Sparkos and the closest relationship would be Sparkos and Geshelli in the DAC world both being from the USA.
Get the DAC that best serves your budget obviously.
Click to expand...
I had read somewhere that Fosi and Sparkos had some distribution agreement.
Not a big deal. I am not even sure if it was factual.

Regarding selecting a DAC, yeah most of my budget is tied up in my analog setup.
I converted my Denon Integrated to a power amp and lost the fairly nice DAC feature within it.

So I have been listening to the Node N130 internal DAC for almost a year now and it's a significantly downgrade in sound.
Was planning to upgrade to the new Node Icon but second guessing this now.
I don't want to be handcuffed to their new QRONO tech.

The Fosi is getting a lot of good feedback. I don't need the best DAC out there.
Watched a few videos with sound samples and it holds up nicely against some more expensive units.


If I decide to update the streamer, I might get more serious later.
I was very curious to get some native DSD playback on my system and compare to some good vinyl copies.
The Icon is not going to provide this so I am just gonna go minimal expense for now burning some Amazon gift card cash.

The wall wart kind of drives me nuts. Any good power supply you would recommend for <$100?
 
Middle Earth said:
Is my $1,200 Holo Cyan 2 R2R DAC better than my Geshelli J2 AKM 4499 DAC ?
I, and many/most others would say yes.
Click to expand...
My point was that the differences in full audio component performances are much more than just the op amp/DAC chip alone. Power supplies, board construction and layout, shielding and grounding all come into play in the audio component design. A newer op amp/DAC does not guarantee better overall performance than an older IC with better complete system design.
 
Jbraswell said:
I had read somewhere that Fosi and Sparkos had some distribution agreement.
Not a big deal. I am not even sure if it was factual.

Regarding selecting a DAC, yeah most of my budget is tied up in my analog setup.
I converted my Denon Integrated to a power amp and lost the fairly nice DAC feature within it.

So I have been listening to the Node N130 internal DAC for almost a year now and it's a significantly downgrade in sound.
Was planning to upgrade to the new Node Icon but second guessing this now.
I don't want to be handcuffed to their new QRONO tech.

The Fosi is getting a lot of good feedback. I don't need the best DAC out there.
Watched a few videos with sound samples and it holds up nicely against some more expensive units.


If I decide to update the streamer, I might get more serious later.
I was very curious to get some native DSD playback on my system and compare to some good vinyl copies.
The Icon is not going to provide this so I am just gonna go minimal expense for now burning some Amazon gift card cash.

The wall wart kind of drives me nuts. Any good power supply you would recommend for <$100?
Click to expand...
Most people just use this

I have some SS3602 op-amps that I would send you
If you use RCA like me you need one
If you used balanced you would need two
Just give me a head’s up if you order a ZD3 and I will get the the Sparkos
And I did see Andrew’s letter attesting to the fact that Fosi is an official distributor of Sparkos op-amps
Run your Node into the Fosi and it should sound really nice
Will be interested to see if you can notice a difference when you swap in the Sparkos
 
Jbraswell said:
I had read somewhere that Fosi and Sparkos had some distribution agreement.
Not a big deal. I am not even sure if it was factual.

Regarding selecting a DAC, yeah most of my budget is tied up in my analog setup.
I converted my Denon Integrated to a power amp and lost the fairly nice DAC feature within it.

So I have been listening to the Node N130 internal DAC for almost a year now and it's a significantly downgrade in sound.
Was planning to upgrade to the new Node Icon but second guessing this now.
I don't want to be handcuffed to their new QRONO tech.

The Fosi is getting a lot of good feedback. I don't need the best DAC out there.
Watched a few videos with sound samples and it holds up nicely against some more expensive units.


If I decide to update the streamer, I might get more serious later.
I was very curious to get some native DSD playback on my system and compare to some good vinyl copies.
The Icon is not going to provide this so I am just gonna go minimal expense for now burning some Amazon gift card cash.

The wall wart kind of drives me nuts. Any good power supply you would recommend for <$100?
Click to expand...
I have the Fosi monoblocks and have been quite happy with them. It's the only Fosi I own but I probably would not hesitate to get another one of their products.

I will once again recommend the Denafrips. They do DSD. You can get a like new/slightly used Ares II for around $650. And no wall wart :ROFLMAO:
 
MikeH said:
I have the Fosi monoblocks and have been quite happy with them. It's the only Fosi I own but I probably would not hesitate to get another one of their products.

I will once again recommend the Denafrips. They do DSD. You can get a like new/slightly used Ares II for around $650. And no wall wart :ROFLMAO:
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Yeah the DAC is not the issue. It's the streamer that is the DSD bottleneck.
I use the Windows bluesound tool today to convert DSD to PCM.
This QRONO is just a way for Bluesound to implement it without needing the Windows processing.

I have looked closely at the Denefrips based on your previous recommendations.
That might be where I go in the future when I figure out the digital chain more and maybe want to spend more.


Middle Earth said:
Most people just use this

I have some SS3602 op-amps that I would send you
If you use RCA like me you need one
If you used balanced you would need two
Just give me a head’s up if you order a ZD3 and I will get the the Sparkos
And I did see Andrew’s letter attesting to the fact that Fosi is an official distributor of Sparkos op-amps
Run your Node into the Fosi and it should sound really nice
Will be interested to see if you can notice a difference when you swap in the Sparkos
Click to expand...
Super cool of you. I am running everything unbalanced into my preamp.

I saw that plug.
I want a small plug with the separate power box.
Takes up too much space in the back of the UPS.
 
Jbraswell said:
Yeah the DAC is not the issue. It's the streamer that is the DSD bottleneck.
I use the Windows bluesound tool today to convert DSD to PCM.
This QRONO is just a way for Bluesound to implement it without needing the Windows processing.

I have looked closely at the Denefrips based on your previous recommendations.
That might be where I go in the future when I figure out the digital chain more and maybe want to spend more.



Super cool of you. I am running everything unbalanced into my preamp.

I saw that plug.
I want a small plug with the separate power box.
Takes up too much space in the back of the UPS.
Click to expand...
ah gotcha. i haven't noticed much bottleneck with roon x my DACs/streamer. Will be curious what you go with! I'm probably in the market for a streamer next spring when we redo our screened in porch. will want some kinda small music system in there.
 
MikeH said:
ah gotcha. i haven't noticed much bottleneck with roon x my DACs/streamer. Will be curious what you go with! I'm probably in the market for a streamer next spring when we redo our screened in porch. will want some kinda small music system in there.
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That sounds like a prime place for an AVR where you can get TV sound into the speakers also.
I use the Qobuz app in the Yamaha AVR app and it works very well.
If that is something you want to consider
 
MikeH said:
ah gotcha. i haven't noticed much bottleneck with roon x my DACs/streamer. Will be curious what you go with! I'm probably in the market for a streamer next spring when we redo our screened in porch. will want some kinda small music system in there.
Click to expand...

For somewhere like that I’d be totally tempted by the Sonos amp and some dentons or super dentons. As heathenous as that sounds 😂
 
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