The Dark Side; Digital audio equipment recommendations and setup.

First off, I’m stoked Ed Selley made it over here. He has given lots of great advice, to me and others.

I love my Auralic Aries Mini’s. Especially paired with a linear power supply (either Auralic’s or the SBooster).

I can also recommend the Mytek Liberty, especially with the SBooster, as it’s very close to a Brooklyn for less $$$. I’ve had and enjoyed a Rega DAC-R as well as a few Schiits. I tell people to pay attention to not just the chip, but the power supply and overall layout. The chip isn’t everything.
 
kvetcha said:
I find it really frustrating there are no good AirPlay compatible wireless DACs available in the US.
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Are you totally against DIY? I put together a HiFiBerry DAC and I can stream via AirPlay from my iPhone and computer. It's awesome. I prefer using my library to Spotify for the most part. I would be willing to start a HiFiBerry thread because I think it's a good cheap option. It was a fun project.
 
Kris said:
Are you totally against DIY? I put together a HiFiBerry DAC and I can stream via AirPlay from my iPhone and computer. It's awesome. I prefer using my library to Spotify for the most part. I would be willing to start a HiFiBerry thread because I think it's a good cheap option. It was a fun project.
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Yeah I really like my hifi berry too, using the digi rather than the dac now because my pre has a better dac. I did start with the dac one though! It is a great little box and a fun pro-next. My next dilemma is whether, if I switch to tidal/Qobuz, I should moveup from free Volumio to paid Volumio or just suck it up and drop the dough on Roon because a hifiberry mated pi is able to be a Roon endpoint or whether I should just go for something like Ed suggested to me above!
 
In the future I definitely plan on adding a digital option to my system beyond my current "stream from wifi over Apple TV" system. I'd like to do something that rivals the sound quality from my albums however this would require me to go out and find/buy all those hi def digital song files and currently I don't know how in the hell I would even go about that... Most of my collection on my computer is 256 bit and the difference is very noticeable vs my vinyl...
 
Mather said:
In the future I definitely plan on adding a digital option to my system beyond my current "stream from wifi over Apple TV" system. I'd like to do something that rivals the sound quality from my albums however this would require me to go out and find/buy all those hi def digital song files and currently I don't know how in the hell I would even go about that... Most of my collection on my computer is 256 bit and the difference is very noticeable vs my vinyl...
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Honestly I’m thinking i have no need for my 1tb of of cd quality/high res files any more. My pi/hifiberry is capable of outputting 24/192 to my dac/pre and I think I’ll end up subbing to the high res editions of either tidal or Qobuz later this year.
 
Joe Mac said:
Honestly I’m thinking i have no need for my 1tb of of cd quality/high res files any more. My pi/hifiberry is capable of outputting 24/192 to my dac/pre and I think I’ll end up subbing to the high res editions of either tidal or Qobuz later this year.
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What's a hi rez membership cost on one of those? And would a wifi connection through my Apple tv carry that signal or would I need something... better.
 
I'd counsel against ditching a well ripped and tagged library of material. I currently have active subs to Spotify, Deezer, Qobuz and Tidal (don't ask) and there still things that are absent on them.

Of course, this is where Roon starts to earn its keep because the integration between Tidal, Qobuz and my library is seamless and works like a charm.
 
Depending on your DAC, you might not need hi res files. I play Opus files, which are all 48kHz, 16 bit, lossy compressed. They sound just fine through my Bifrost multibit.
 
Mather said:
What's a hi rez membership cost on one of those? And would a wifi connection through my Apple tv carry that signal or would I need something... better.
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I’m not sure in Canada but in Ireland it’s €25.99 tidal and €32.99 Qobuz. It’s steep but I currently get Spotify free with my mobile network and am looking to moving to another network, when my contract ends, that’s cheaper and gives more data. I can use the money difference to get one of these and it’s not like I don’t use streaming a lot whilst I’m commuting.

Also WiFi has more than enough bandwidth to send it to the Apple TV with two caveats, if you do it through AirPlay, airplay only supports up to cd quality, not upto high res and check the supported audio quality from the Apple TV to your amp/dac too.
 
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Ed Selley said:
I'd counsel against ditching a well ripped and tagged library of material. I currently have active subs to Spotify, Deezer, Qobuz and Tidal (don't ask) and there still things that are absent on them.

Of course, this is where Roon starts to earn its keep because the integration between Tidal, Qobuz and my library is seamless and works like a charm.
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Oh not ditching it for sure, just more not focusing on it as such and relying on the high res streaming for the majority of my digital listening.
 
apholden said:
Depending on your DAC, you might not need hi res files. I play Opus files, which are all 48kHz, 16 bit, lossy compressed. They sound just fine through my Bifrost multibit.
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I do have a dac that I like a lot and it has made CDs and worse quality streaming and net radio sound miles better BUT high res still sounds miles and miles better again lol!
 
Joe Mac said:
I’m not sure in Canada but in Ireland it’s €25.99 tidal and €32.99 Qobuz. It’s steep but I currently get Spotify free with my mobile network and am looking to moving to another network, when my contract ends, that’s cheaper and gives more data. I can use the money difference to get one of these and it’s not like I don’t use streaming a lot whilst I’m commuting.

Also WiFi has more than enough bandwidth to send it to the Apple TV with two caveats, if you do it through AirPlay, airplay only supports up to cd quality, not upto high res and check the supported audio quality from the Apple TV to your amp/dac too.
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Ah, so this won't work then. I'll need a hub of some sort I guess.
 
Mather said:
Ah, so this won't work then. I'll need a hub of some sort I guess.
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Yeah that’s why I built the little pi thing and others are buying the likes of the aurelic and bluesound. I’m currently trying to get as much as possible without spending big money on this side as streaming/file digital/internet radio is something I like to have and for sure find really useful but it’s actual usage lags way behind vinyl and CDs at home on my system, it gets much more use on the go.
 
Ultimately, digital presents a different spending dilemma to analogue. With analogue you can’t ‘cheat’ your way to quality. It’s mechanical engineering and you can’t do it on the cheap.

Digital is a little different. The economies of scale that are enjoyed by some bits of hardware means you can produce servers and streaming head units using off the shelf components for a song. Even when dealing with bespoke hardware, the levels of performance on offer are staggering. A Chord Electronics Mojo (not cheap but hardly bonkers money) measures better than any digital product you could buy in 2000 at any price.

What you pay for (beyond nicer casework and a warranty) is the interface and convenience. The Zenith server in the opening post costs £3,499. You can build a Roon NUC for a fifth of that. What Innuos does is remove the hassle and give you something that will 100% work out of the box. So it goes for streamers and (to a lesser extent) DACs. If you’re confident in your own abilities though, you can get a lot done for not a lot of money.
 
Ed Selley said:
Ultimately, digital presents a different spending dilemma to analogue. With analogue you can’t ‘cheat’ your way to quality. It’s mechanical engineering and you can’t do it on the cheap.

Digital is a little different. The economies of scale that are enjoyed by some bits of hardware means you can produce servers and streaming head units using off the shelf components for a song. Even when dealing with bespoke hardware, the levels of performance on offer are staggering. A Chord Electronics Mojo (not cheap but hardly bonkers money) measures better than any digital product you could buy in 2000 at any price.

What you pay for (beyond nicer casework and a warranty) is the interface and convenience. The Zenith server in the opening post costs £3,499. You can build a Roon NUC for a fifth of that. What Innuos does is remove the hassle and give you something that will 100% work out of the box. So it goes for streamers and (to a lesser extent) DACs. If you’re confident in your own abilities though, you can get a lot done for not a lot of money.
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Are the NUC ROCK machines any good? I was half considering buying one of the better QNAP NAS and throwing a pile of storage at it and using it both as a backup and a Roon Core. I suppose I could get a NUC and put a couple of terabytes into it, use it only for music and save some money...
 
Joe Mac said:
Are the NUC ROCK machines any good? I was half considering buying one of the better QNAP NAS and throwing a pile of storage at it and using it both as a backup and a Roon Core. I suppose I could get a NUC and put a couple of terabytes into it, use it only for music and save some money...
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I’ve not used them but it seems that Roon is adamant that a NUC has to be built from a list of authorised bits. Installing it on other hardware might work but won’t be guaranteed against new updates.

But yes, Roon is outstanding.
 
Ed Selley said:
I’ve not used them but it seems that Roon is adamant that a NUC has to be built from a list of authorised bits. Installing it on other hardware might work but won’t be guaranteed against new updates.

But yes, Roon is outstanding.
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Things to think about then...

I have my free Spotify until November so maybe it’s time to start saving for a solution for then, be it a NUC or a NAS haha!
 
Have you thought about the Roon Nucleus? More than a DIY project, but much less than a Zenith. Not quite as bespoke as the Zenith, but if you’re looking at something dedicated for Roon, a good option.

 
SnowmaNick said:
Have you thought about the Roon Nucleus? More than a DIY project, but much less than a Zenith. Not quite as bespoke as the Zenith, but if you’re looking at something dedicated for Roon, a good option.

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Yes- it's a very effective option. I would say that the while the Zenith is a bit spendy, the Zen Mini also has the ability to run as a Roon Core and represents rather better value. If you want to go down the audiophile rabbit hole, you can add a linear PSU later on too.
 
SnowmaNick said:
Have you thought about the Roon Nucleus? More than a DIY project, but much less than a Zenith. Not quite as bespoke as the Zenith, but if you’re looking at something dedicated for Roon, a good option.

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The thing that puts me off the nucleus is that it’s in and around $2000 without a Roon subscription and it’s effectively a bespoke NUC. I priced up a NUC last night. It’s £550ish with a 2TB hybrid HD to hold your digital collection. I don’t think that there is anything in the nucleus that I’ve seen yet that justifies the difference in price.
 
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