The Dark Side; Digital audio equipment recommendations and setup.

duke86fan said:
How is jriver compared to foobar

Is it worth the extra money on Windows?
Click to expand...

Yes.

Put it this way. Someone who really knows what they're doing can use the free skins and plugins of Foobar to kit it out to do what jRiver does. The caveat is that it takes considerable time and experience to do so. For most users, they won't be able to do that. jRiver is able to work properly and well out the box. Even if you value your leisure time at the minimum wage, I can all but guarantee that setting up Foobar to do what jRiver does will cost you more than the license for jRiver does.
 
Ed Selley said:
Yes.

Put it this way. Someone who really knows what they're doing can use the free skins and plugins of Foobar to kit it out to do what jRiver does. The caveat is that it takes considerable time and experience to do so. For most users, they won't be able to do that. jRiver is able to work properly and well out the box. Even if you value your leisure time at the minimum wage, I can all but guarantee that setting up Foobar to do what jRiver does will cost you more than the license for jRiver does.
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thanks

i just wondered because stereophiles streaming specific place says to use jriver for windows music (not movies of course because VLC already beats it in every way), and i was wondering why not just use foobar2000 if you just need bit perfect audio
 
i was just offered a free monolith USB dac from a man on a hifi forum... monoprices fight against the dragonfly red at a lower price... when it comes to me i will get a review out
 
duke86fan said:
How is jriver compared to foobar

Is it worth the extra money on Windows?
Click to expand...
Can’t speak to windows but I wasn’t a huge fan of it on OS/iOS when I tried it a year or two ago. The UI felt a bit clunky. Also I ended up comparing it to Roon so maybe it’s an unfair statement...
 
jamieanderson1968 said:
A newbie digital question/request for help here folks. I skimmed this thread and my head is spinning, so sorry if this has been asked and answered.

While working in my office at home over the last several weeks and listening to a lot more music digitally, I have realized that my current set up is rather limited and not ideal for me.

What I have
I currently have over 1TB of Flac files. I converted my 2000+ cd collection a few years ago all to Flac and they are currently sitting on an external hard drive connected to my iMac. Though most of my cds are available on streaming services, I do have quite a few artists from small labels, limited releases and eps that aren’t. I currently subscribe to Apple Music for streaming, but think I will switch over to Tidal as I prefer the higher bit rate and sound quality. I am on their 4bucks/4months intro offer right now.

What I currently do
The hard drive is connected to my computer. Though I am an Apple person (iMac, iPhone etc) I hate iTunes and don’t use it. I use Foobar to play my Flac files and listen to them with headphones through a small DAC.

I have a set of AudioEngine 5+ speakers, and an AudioEngine wireless streaming adaptor. But I am not overly happy with this set up. The speakers are also connected to my turntable.

For the streaming services I will listen via the desktop app with headphones and the DAC mostly, or sometimes streamed to the AudioEngine speakers.

I also have a Sonos One speaker in our kitchen. My wife uses it primarily for streaming podcasts or radio from her phone. I do also use it to stream Tidal from my phone as well.

What I want to do
I think what I am looking for is some sort of streaming device that I can connect my external hard drive to. I would then connect the device to the AudioEngine speakers. I would be able to control the streaming device via either a desktop app or app on my iPhone. I could also get a cheap tablet to control it down the line if need be.

I don’t need a feature rich UI, just being able to easily navigate the folder structure on the hard drive and show the cover art of what is currently playing would make me happy. I don't want to reorganize my flac files as I am happy with the way the file structure is set up, so I also don't want the UI software mucking with the structure.

Not deal breakers - nice to haves (in order)
  • Ideally I would also be able to stream to the Sonos speaker via the app.
  • It would be nice to be able to stream via the app on my phone when I am outside the house, specifically while at work. I would just listen with headphones.
  • Integration with streaming services (Apple or Tidal) - of these 3, the least important.
I don’t want to go the Raspberry Pi home brew route as I think that is a bit too under-the-hood for my skill level I think. The solution does not need to be plug and play but looking for something that is fairly straightforward to get setup and running. I like the idea that once it is set up, I don’t need to constantly tinker with it, but if I want to tweak it I can. I would like to keep cost for the streaming device to less than $500 USD.

thanks
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Just wanted to give a quick update on this. Thanks all for input.

I think the Bluesound Node2i is the direction I will go, just need to save the $$ right now because I would like combine it with their a pair of their Flex 2i speakers as well.

BUT I did install Roon and holy crap you guys (@Joe Mac and @MikeH ) weren't wrong at all. I have just started to scratch the surface and it is pretty great as a controller and metadata interface. Right now my music is still sitting on an external drive connected to my iMac. This set up is working for me now. Roon also connects just dandy with my Sonos speaker down in the main floor. There is some weird hand off between the Roon and Sonos app on my iPhone but it plays. It would be nice if you could add Roon to the Sonos as a service like with Tidal or Bandcamp etc. But this works for now. I really don't like the idea of paying a monthly subscription for Roon. I will do it but I wish there was a better/cheaper option for this.

If any of you Roon folks are on a monthly sub and want to send me a referral I am open to saving a bit of money.
Roon Referral Program

EDIT: Thanks @wooha
 
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got a free used monolith USB DAC... working on a review rn... i cant completely compare it to the competition of the dragonfly red but i do enjoy it, it sounds a BIT more crisp and more refined
 
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duke86fan said:
got a free used monolith USB DAC... working on a review rn... i cant completely compare it to the competition of the dragonfly red but i do enjoy it, it sounds a BIT more crisp and more refined
Click to expand...
my review is prepared

Background:

Monoprice seems like the objectivists audioquest, where audioquest tries to give as high of a performance as possible for a cheap for hifi price, Monoprice knows that all you need is some decent wire and you can sell it for cheap. Their monolith brand has had a good reputation due to the use of THX AAA audio for a lot of their productions and the liquid spark having what is considered a warm tube like sound for about 100 bucks. The USB Dac is clearly fighting against the audioquest dragonfly line, promising high performance of say a dragonfly red or cobalt for the price of a dragonfly black

Build:

There is definitely a lot of plastic going on, it feels sturdy enough but definitely feels cheaper, I did buy it used and there isn’t much of a problem of durability though, it probably could break somewhat easily if you put a super heavy object on it but my laptop was not heavy enough to break it. I do notice a lot of heat coming from the monolith though, not burning hot but definitely feeling warm while its in use

The fact that this dac has amplification buttons makes it interesting and more unique, though the upper button on the dac lowers the volume and the other makes it louder which is weird, basically its safe to max out the windows volume (it defaulted to doing that for me) and using these buttons to add some more loudness, though the very exact picking is kinda difficult

Sound (Headphones Used: Sennheiser 58X Jubilees):

As what feels like a middle finger to audioquest, the monolith advertises sample rates up to 32/384 DXD and DSD256. I tested this with a demo from 2L, which it clearly worked with and sounded fairly well, I don’t see much of a use for DSD as it sounded just as good as say a 192/24 PCM file and not a TON of music comes from it, but I do find it cool to see and pretty nice (also tip, if you are using foobar do WASAPI (push) for your output driver, event sounds HORRIBLE on PCM and WASAPI gave me DSD support).

Taking an example from the HDTracks free sampler that was released… I felt like the tracks had a lot of texture and energy to them, the mastering felt like there was a lot of nice guitar strings and a smooth simple ride, I found one thing unique about the monolith as my first real experience with a dac and that’s that the drums did have a more crisp and clean sound to them, which I feel might have lessened some of the power of them but was smooth and satisfying, even on youtube this less crisp more softened sound is there

Brand New’s “Can’t Get It Out” is a personal favorite song of mine so testing the 96/24 download I have of it on this was exciting, at first I didn’t really notice much until I got to a moment of multiple people singing, one thing that almost hypnotized me back when I first heard it was that the chorus had kind of melded into one voice around the 1:15 mark, but with the monolith I felt like there wasn’t as much of a melding to it, which is more revealing and nice but I kind of wonder if I lost a lot of the beautiful mental illusions the lesser audio on my laptop was giving me.

Going on to streaming on tidal. Slide by calvin harris with frank ocean and migos feels as fun as I remember and the bass feels just right in how pronounced it is and no instruments feel cluttered, useful as this is a song that has a lot of meticulous instruments, there is a bit of a focus on the mids but nothing too intense to really bug me. While Fennesz’s amazing ballad with David Sylvian “Transit” definitely showed the mid focus more, its pretty but the vocals are a lot clearer in the mix and the noises feel a little more synthetic than before.

Comparison:

Compared to my old dragonfly black, I do consider the monolith to sound a good bit better, with the dragonfly I felt like I wasn’t really getting a big audio improvement over what I already got with my headphone jack. But maybe its because of the DAC chip or the fact that I used exclusive mode and WASAPI on my digital files, but I definitely could notice an improvement. Whether its better than a red or cobalt I cannot give since I have never owned either of them, if anyone who has owned a higher end dragonfly can speak about the sound quality comparisons, I’d be more than welcome to update this

Conclusion:

For 100 dollars I can consider it a great starter DAC for laptops, it may not have the big features of something like a dragonfly but what you are getting is pretty nice
 
Since I have been in quarantine and trying to stay in shape was going to update my streaming option off my Pioneer SX3700 in the basement. Went to get the normal Hifiberry like I got on my main set up and stumbled across this. Im very happy with what I have but for the price and return policy probably check it out. Part of me wants to splurge for Marantz ND8006 though.

FYI they also got white steel cases now. The regular steel case matches my Vincent Pho8 almost perfect though.

 
Anybody have experience with using DSD files? Would love to A/B FLAC vs DSD or Qobuz vs DSD but not sure it's worth the hassle?
 
MikeH said:
Anybody have experience with using DSD files? Would love to A/B FLAC vs DSD or Qobuz vs DSD but not sure it's worth the hassle?
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If you have the time and the gear that can play the files, it's probably worth the investment to download a couple of tracks. It sounds like a fun test!
 
I am really naive with the whole DAC concept. With the new Hifiberry hat I mentioned above it has me revisiting this part of my set up. I think I have it narrowed down to 3 options. I currently have the hifiberry pro + and only really stream flac off flash and Spotify Connect. I trust the hifiberry suggestion the new DAC2 is a solid upgrade and I have been happy with my current setup. That said I was happy with my AT LP120 turntable and was blown away by PLX1000 when I got it. I realize nobody has heard all 3, so guessing on quality is fair (I'm US so $)
1) hifiberry DAC2 HD - said to be an upgrade for only $100 total without any changes current setup. Dont over think it.
2) Marantz NA6006 - $600ish, match my PM8006 and I seem to enjoy Marantz house sound. Assume nice upgrade, noticable to me but maybe not visitors.
3) Denafrips Ares 2- currently $1,028. For me to make this jump would want a solid increase in image and soundstage. Lack of better comparison that difference from LP120 to PLX1000 if that is even possible?
Thoughts?
 
Haimez40 said:
I am really naive with the whole DAC concept. With the new Hifiberry hat I mentioned above it has me revisiting this part of my set up. I think I have it narrowed down to 3 options. I currently have the hifiberry pro + and only really stream flac off flash and Spotify Connect. I trust the hifiberry suggestion the new DAC2 is a solid upgrade and I have been happy with my current setup. That said I was happy with my AT LP120 turntable and was blown away by PLX1000 when I got it. I realize nobody has heard all 3, so guessing on quality is fair (I'm US so $)
1) hifiberry DAC2 HD - said to be an upgrade for only $100 total without any changes current setup. Dont over think it.
2) Marantz NA6006 - $600ish, match my PM8006 and I seem to enjoy Marantz house sound. Assume nice upgrade, noticable to me but maybe not visitors.
3) Denafrips Ares 2- currently $1,028. For me to make this jump would want a solid increase in image and soundstage. Lack of better comparison that difference from LP120 to PLX1000 if that is even possible?
Thoughts?
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So 1 and 2 and full streamers. 3 is just a dac, it will need a streaming input.

2 wouldn’t be something I’d personally consider. So I’d likely say either 1 or 3 but you’ll need to get a digi hat for your pi for 3 and still use the pi as an input and the ares as the DAC to do the conversion to analogue. This is what I do with using the pi as the input for my PS audio DAC.
 
Ok got it, thanks! So obvious first step is buy the new hat and go from there.
I am going to order it the second it comes out and will report back.
 
Haimez40 said:
Ok got it, thanks! So obvious first step is buy the new hat and go from there.
I am going to order it the second it comes out and will report back.
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not really. If you want to get the denafrips it is a different hat for your pi. Now the one you have, and the one you are looking at, is a DAC itself that connects to a normal amp with RCA. If you want to use a separate DAC you need a different DIGI, rather than DAC, hat. It just reclocks the signal and sends it out as a digital signal through coax or optical to the dac for it to convert to analogue.
 
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Haimez40 said:
I am really naive with the whole DAC concept. With the new Hifiberry hat I mentioned above it has me revisiting this part of my set up. I think I have it narrowed down to 3 options. I currently have the hifiberry pro + and only really stream flac off flash and Spotify Connect. I trust the hifiberry suggestion the new DAC2 is a solid upgrade and I have been happy with my current setup. That said I was happy with my AT LP120 turntable and was blown away by PLX1000 when I got it. I realize nobody has heard all 3, so guessing on quality is fair (I'm US so $)
1) hifiberry DAC2 HD - said to be an upgrade for only $100 total without any changes current setup. Dont over think it.
2) Marantz NA6006 - $600ish, match my PM8006 and I seem to enjoy Marantz house sound. Assume nice upgrade, noticable to me but maybe not visitors.
3) Denafrips Ares 2- currently $1,028. For me to make this jump would want a solid increase in image and soundstage. Lack of better comparison that difference from LP120 to PLX1000 if that is even possible?
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
It's worth noting that the Ares 2 is NOT $1,028. The price is in singapore dollars. If you're in the US it is more like $750.
 
Haimez40 said:
I am really naive with the whole DAC concept. With the new Hifiberry hat I mentioned above it has me revisiting this part of my set up. I think I have it narrowed down to 3 options. I currently have the hifiberry pro + and only really stream flac off flash and Spotify Connect. I trust the hifiberry suggestion the new DAC2 is a solid upgrade and I have been happy with my current setup. That said I was happy with my AT LP120 turntable and was blown away by PLX1000 when I got it. I realize nobody has heard all 3, so guessing on quality is fair (I'm US so $)
1) hifiberry DAC2 HD - said to be an upgrade for only $100 total without any changes current setup. Dont over think it.
2) Marantz NA6006 - $600ish, match my PM8006 and I seem to enjoy Marantz house sound. Assume nice upgrade, noticable to me but maybe not visitors.
3) Denafrips Ares 2- currently $1,028. For me to make this jump would want a solid increase in image and soundstage. Lack of better comparison that difference from LP120 to PLX1000 if that is even possible?
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
I agree with @Joe Mac ...I'd skip #2. I don't have experience with the Hifiberry so can't really speak to that and don't know what the actual upgrades will be with the new DAC vs what you already have. I have heard awesome things about the Ares and strongly considered getting one myself when I upgraded my DAC. If you want to keep Spotify Connect, I think you'd need to still keep your Hifiberry and add a coax/optical output to push it through to the Ares, then go RCA or balanced out from there to your amp.

My gut tells me that the Ares will sound better than the Hifiberry and I don't know that the new Hifiberry DAC will be the jump you're looking for similar to your turntable, but there's no way to know without hearing it. If you are mostly using spotify connect, then I'm not sure it's worth the $700+ price difference between the Aries + Hifiberry after all is said and done. If you find yourself primarily listening to high-res digital like FLAC then the Ares might be a better jump. On top of the price of the DAC, if you went with the Ares, then you might be tempted to switch over to Qobuz and potentially Roon which is another whole cost haha. If you just do the $100 hifiberry DAC upgrade, you could still test out Qobuz + Roon (I believe you can get 30 day trials for both) and if you end up wanting Roon, one of us can give you a referral to get 13 months for the price of 12. But Roon only makes sense IMO if you're doing multi-room audio and/or have a lot of FLAC files + a high-res subscription service.

Anywho...sorry for the long rambling...overall I think the $100 to test out the Hifiberry is probably your best bet at dipping your toes in the water more and giving Qobuz or Tidal a try might be a better way to gauge if you want to make a bigger digital jump. If you want to move over to an Ares, you could always try to sell the Hifiberry to put some money toward the Ares.
 
MikeH said:
I agree with @Joe Mac ...I'd skip #2. I don't have experience with the Hifiberry so can't really speak to that and don't know what the actual upgrades will be with the new DAC vs what you already have. I have heard awesome things about the Ares and strongly considered getting one myself when I upgraded my DAC. If you want to keep Spotify Connect, I think you'd need to still keep your Hifiberry and add a coax/optical output to push it through to the Ares, then go RCA or balanced out from there to your amp.

My gut tells me that the Ares will sound better than the Hifiberry and I don't know that the new Hifiberry DAC will be the jump you're looking for similar to your turntable, but there's no way to know without hearing it. If you are mostly using spotify connect, then I'm not sure it's worth the $700+ price difference between the Aries + Hifiberry after all is said and done. If you find yourself primarily listening to high-res digital like FLAC then the Ares might be a better jump. On top of the price of the DAC, if you went with the Ares, then you might be tempted to switch over to Qobuz and potentially Roon which is another whole cost haha. If you just do the $100 hifiberry DAC upgrade, you could still test out Qobuz + Roon (I believe you can get 30 day trials for both) and if you end up wanting Roon, one of us can give you a referral to get 13 months for the price of 12. But Roon only makes sense IMO if you're doing multi-room audio and/or have a lot of FLAC files + a high-res subscription service.

Anywho...sorry for the long rambling...overall I think the $100 to test out the Hifiberry is probably your best bet at dipping your toes in the water more and giving Qobuz or Tidal a try might be a better way to gauge if you want to make a bigger digital jump. If you want to move over to an Ares, you could always try to sell the Hifiberry to put some money toward the Ares.
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Yeah I agree, Spotify is the limiting factor. The hifiberry that @Haimez40 has is actually brilliant and responds really well to hi res digital, I know because I ran it for 3 or 4 years. It doesn’t hold a candle to changing the hat to the digi and running it through the ps audio dac but then that’s a £1500 DAC/Preamp so I suppose it should be expected! That said there was no difference in Spotify with the upgrade to the really good dac.
 
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