The Dark Side; Digital audio equipment recommendations and setup.

Joe Mac said:
Yeah it will. I’d totally trial that app before buying though because the interface is a huge part of making digital work well and if it’s clunky finding tracks will be a pain in the arse and will eat into your enjoyment.
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Yeah I'm trying trying to keep everything simple, not really looking for a whole house system. But I get it. Roon definitely makes sense.
 
Mather said:
No the Arcam CDS50, SACD and streamer. From what I can tell out of the box with the Native music life app it can do all the high res tidal and Qobuz
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Personally, I'd look at something that is Roon Ready and has Tidal Connect, which may come at the expense of not being an SACD player. But if you think you'd use the SACD more, then the Arcam might be good for ya. I tend to like having an upgrade path and was glad I did with digital streaming because it allowed me to just add some more pieces/upgrade separates and add Roon once I decided that I'd use digital enough in my system. And as @Joe Mac said, I wouldn't underestimate the software side or having options there. If it's a really annoying UI to use, you probably won't use it much. I kept getting frustrating with the Lightning OS for Aries because it was so clunky.

And I've said it to a bunch of people but Roon is overkill unless you are combining a download/ripped CD library and streaming service.

Didn't realize Qobuz isn't in Canada but apparently they might try to add Canada to their country list eventually...
 
MikeH said:
Personally, I'd look at something that is Roon Ready and has Tidal Connect, which may come at the expense of not being an SACD player. But if you think you'd use the SACD more, then the Arcam might be good for ya. I tend to like having an upgrade path and was glad I did with digital streaming because it allowed me to just add some more pieces/upgrade separates and add Roon once I decided that I'd use digital enough in my system. And as @Joe Mac said, I wouldn't underestimate the software side or having options there. If it's a really annoying UI to use, you probably won't use it much. I kept getting frustrating with the Lightning OS for Aries because it was so clunky.

Didn't realize Qobuz isn't in Canada but apparently they might try to add Canada to their country list eventually...
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So if I have something like the BlueSound node downstairs. Do I need another $1000 BlueSound node upstairs to connect that system to the network too?
 
Mather said:
Yeah I'm trying trying to keep everything simple, not really looking for a whole house system. But I get it. Roon definitely makes sense.
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Not even roon. Roon is a good upgrade and something to consider but I actually dont think it’s right for you now starting with a single streaming provider. Maybe down the line.

Tidal is a great user friendly app. As are most streaming companies efforts. They are easy to find tracks on and give intelligent recommendations and are intuitive. If you can get Tidal connect id change manufacturer to get it. Most manufacturers outside experience companies like sonos make clunky monsters. If it’s got tidal connect you can ignore the clunky monster after intial set up and just use the tidal app on your control device.
 
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Joe Mac said:
Yeah its a box that connects to a system and let’s it stream. Each system would need its own. That would he the same whatever streaking option you take.
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Not to make things confusing for @Mather but if he were to get something that's Roon Ready, you don't need the same device in each room--you'd just need another Roon Ready device if you were using Roon.

Otherwise, yea I'd assume that you would need the same device/app control especially if it's a device that doesn't have Roon or Tidal Connect. Or you'd have to use different software for each device and it would get annoying really quickly.
 
MikeH said:
Not to make things confusing for @Mather but if he were to get something that's Roon Ready, you don't need the same device in each room--you'd just need another Roon Ready device if you were using Roon.

Otherwise, yea I'd assume that you would need the same device/app control especially if it's a device that doesn't have Roon or Tidal Connect. Or you'd have to use different software for each device and it would get annoying really quickly.
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Okay so if I dropped 600 on a BlueSound, is there a cheaper option to connect my upstairs system at the same quality? Or is it a closed ecosystem like Sonos where I need another BlueSound node in order to run both? Or could I go way cheaper upstairs and all get the connected high res?
 
So I got some general questions about hi-res digital audio. First, for the streaming services that do offer hi-res streaming, is it mostly newer music that's available in hi-res, or is there a lot of older (before 2000s) music available in hi-res also? For older stuff, do they usually re-master from original (analog) tapes (where available) or pull from previous hi-res digital transfers? What sources are used to generate the hi-res files? Like for stuff from the 90s, a lot of albums were tracked to ADAT and mastered to DAT at CD-quality (or 20-bit 48 kHz at best). How would hi-res files improve upon CD rips when the source material is at that quality?

I understand for newer stuff from the past 10, maybe 15 years and in the future, hi-res is an improvement over CD-quality since even for basic home recording, 24-bit high-sample rate has been readily attainable & even the standard. But just curious about the quality of older stuff in hi-res. Also, does anyone offer high-res purchases & downloads (not streaming)? I know I've seen some of my bandcamp purchases available in hi-res, but was wondering if there's any larger marketplaces for hi-res files. I prefer "owning" the files and using my preferred player, instead of relying on streaming services and possible unavailability of certain songs or albums.

I ripped almost all of my CDs (600+) to lossless many years ago. For convenience purposes, I use iTunes to manage & play my library. Converts the files to max-quality lossy AAC when syncing to my phone (which I'm okay with for the car/work). But it plays the original lossless files at home. I have an Apple Airport Express hooked up to my main system, and I stream from iTunes on my iMac to it via Airplay 2. I have Sonos speakers everywhere else that can stream via Airplay 2 as well.

Airplay is limited to 16/44.1 though I believe, which is why I ask all the above. I'm planning on moving within the next 18 months, and it will involve at least partially modifying & upgrading my audio setup(s). Trying to figure if it's worth taking hi-res in consideration at this point or just wait another 5 years when it's more prevalent. I do have a small amount of hi-res files currently, but it's mostly vinyl rips of 45s or LPs that aren't readily available elsewhere digitally, and it's such a tiny portion of my music library.

Sorry for the essay lol
 
debar22 said:
So I got some general questions about hi-res digital audio. First, for the streaming services that do offer hi-res streaming, is it mostly newer music that's available in hi-res, or is there a lot of older (before 2000s) music available in hi-res also? For older stuff, do they usually re-master from original (analog) tapes (where available) or pull from previous hi-res digital transfers? What sources are used to generate the hi-res files? Like for stuff from the 90s, a lot of albums were tracked to ADAT and mastered to DAT at CD-quality (or 20-bit 48 kHz at best). How would hi-res files improve upon CD rips when the source material is at that quality?

I understand for newer stuff from the past 10, maybe 15 years and in the future, hi-res is an improvement over CD-quality since even for basic home recording, 24-bit high-sample rate has been readily attainable & even the standard. But just curious about the quality of older stuff in hi-res. Also, does anyone offer high-res purchases & downloads (not streaming)? I know I've seen some of my bandcamp purchases available in hi-res, but was wondering if there's any larger marketplaces for hi-res files. I prefer "owning" the files and using my preferred player, instead of relying on streaming services and possible unavailability of certain songs or albums.

I ripped almost all of my CDs (600+) to lossless many years ago. For convenience purposes, I use iTunes to manage & play my library. Converts the files to max-quality lossy AAC when syncing to my phone (which I'm okay with for the car/work). But it plays the original lossless files at home. I have an Apple Airport Express hooked up to my main system, and I stream from iTunes on my iMac to it via Airplay 2. I have Sonos speakers everywhere else that can stream via Airplay 2 as well.

Airplay is limited to 16/44.1 though I believe, which is why I ask all the above. I'm planning on moving within the next 18 months, and it will involve at least partially modifying & upgrading my audio setup(s). Trying to figure if it's worth taking hi-res in consideration at this point or just wait another 5 years when it's more prevalent. I do have a small amount of hi-res files currently, but it's mostly vinyl rips of 45s or LPs that aren't readily available elsewhere digitally, and it's such a tiny portion of my music library.

Sorry for the essay lol
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It’s a mix really. A lot of new music is in hi res and you’re right a lot of “classic” old stuff that’s been remastered too. Despite seemingly random albums or artists only being CD quality the biggest lacuna is 90s and 00s music.

Hi Res improves because it had to be compressed to 16/44 to put it onto a CD. You are ripping that compressed layer. When you play the hi res you are playing the uncompressed 24/44 24/48 24/92 24/192 at that bit rate.
 
Joe Mac said:
It’s a mix really. A lot of new music is in hi res and you’re right a lot of “classic” old stuff that’s been remastered too. Despite seemingly random albums or artists only being CD quality the biggest lacuna is 90s and 00s music.

Hi Res improves because it had to be compressed to 16/44 to put it onto a CD. You are ripping that compressed layer. When you play the hi res you are playing the uncompressed 24/44 24/48 24/92 24/192 at that bit rate.
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jesusfuckingchrist HOW MUCH FOR THAT WAX CYLINDER SYSTEM JOE I'M STARTING TO LIKE THAT IDEA MORE AND MORE
 
Joe Mac said:
It’s a mix really. A lot of new music is in hi res and you’re right a lot of “classic” old stuff that’s been remastered too. Despite seemingly random albums or artists only being CD quality the biggest lacuna is 90s and 00s music.

Hi Res improves because it had to be compressed to 16/44 to put it onto a CD. You are ripping that compressed layer. When you play the hi res you are playing the uncompressed 24/44 24/48 24/92 24/192 at that bit rate.
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Yeah, my question about hi-res improving upon CD rips was about stuff from the 90s. The fact that you say that there's a gap in 90s & 00s music in hi-res kind of confirms what I was thinking.

I have a feeling the reason a lot of 90s & 00s is missing in hi-res is because a lot of those sources max out at 16/44 and hi-res would not improve them. A lot of music at the time had fully digital recording/mixing/mastering chain. I'm sure the big studios had high-bit, high sampling rate capabilities, but a lot of people used ADATs & DATs. They usually top out at 20/48, but I'm guessing a lot of it is in 16/44, so those sources are at CD quality and upsampling for hi-res would be like converting an MP3 to FLAC.

Then in the early 00s when computer recording became more available, 16/44 was still common due to storage space, processing, and audio interface limitations.
 
Mather said:
Okay so if I dropped 600 on a BlueSound, is there a cheaper option to connect my upstairs system at the same quality? Or is it a closed ecosystem like Sonos where I need another BlueSound node in order to run both? Or could I go way cheaper upstairs and all get the connected high res?
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Once you add more than one high-res streaming device, it would boil down to the software you use. And this is where I think the Roon Ready feature is a nice one to have for upgrading down the line. Maybe Tidal Connect is similar but I don't use Tidal so can't speak to that... The list of brands that make Roon Ready or Roon tested devices is really impressive and keeps growing. If you have something Roon ready and decide that you love streaming and want a 2nd streaming setup, it gets pretty simple to add a 2nd setup while keeping your same music library + software control. If it is not a Roon Ready device, then I'm pretty sure you would have to buy the same device or same brand and it becomes more of a closed ecosystem since you have to use THEIR software to play any music at high-res.

I started with my Aries Mini (which is Roon Ready) because I knew I could modularly upgrade both the library software and DAC later. if I used high-res streaming more. I used the Aries/Auralic proprietary software for streaming that connected with Qobuz/Tidal for awhile. Then I started downloading more music + started using Roon to make my streaming + downloaded libraries seamless. It has been awesome and now I have two high-res audio setups (different brand devices) running through Roon and also use Roon to manage airplay streams on my various Sonos speakers if I want to do multiroom. I won't go into what is needed to run Roon to avoid confusing you further, but know that if what you buy IS Roon Ready and you want more than 1 setup later, you can use Roon down the line to make everything seamless even if the brands of the devices are different.

I'm sure there's a cheaper alternative to Roon. But Roon is very nice. I now use it every day. I have a feeling you would like it, especially if you have some CD rips or a local library of downloaded music. You may also decide that you don't need Roon and just want to keep 1 setup downstairs for streaming, and it seems like a lot of people like the Bluesound.
 
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