The Dark Side; Digital audio equipment recommendations and setup.

[jamieanderson1968]

One thing to remember with streaming hi-res from Tidal or others, is that not everything is above cd quality. In fact less than 20% of Tidal’s titles are available above 16/44 and probably never will really get higher than than.

 

[Joe Mac]

Okay so if I dropped 600 on a BlueSound, is there a cheaper option to connect my upstairs system at the same quality? Or is it a closed ecosystem like Sonos where I need another BlueSound node in order to run both? Or could I go way cheaper upstairs and all get the connected high res?

Depends what you are using. If it’s Roon or Tidal Connect on both its irrelevant so long as they support it because you’re using that app to control it. If you want to use the blue os and do zones and shit then yeah you gotta stick within the eco system as that’d be the same idea as sonos.

 

[Joe Mac]

One thing to remember with streaming hi-res from Tidal or others, is that not everything is above cd quality. In fact less than 20% of Tidal’s titles are available above 16/44 and probably never will really get higher than than.

The way I’ve always thought of that is that it’s like CDs/SACDs. Most stuff I could only get on CD but for the special stuff it’s nice to get the higher quality and it is mostly older classic stuff or very new stuff that I tend to see as Hi Res.

 

[MikeH]

Depends what you are using. If it’s Roon or Tidal Connect on both its irrelevant so long as they support it because you’re using that app to control it. If you want to use the blue os and do zones and shit then yeah you gotta stick within the eco system as that’d be the same idea as sonos.

this is a much better, more succinct response than mine

 

[Mather]

I’m the proud owner of an arts and a law degree, do you think I understand any of that mumbo jumbo beyond the basic idea that the bigger number is better

Dude my actual job title is TECHNICAL DIRECTOR and I've been thoroughly defeated by A MUSIC STREAMING SYSTEM

One thing to remember with streaming hi-res from Tidal or others, is that not everything is above cd quality. In fact less than 20% of Tidal’s titles are available above 16/44 and probably never will really get higher than than.

Does it identify on screen what is actually high res and what isn't? Can you search only high res?

And @MikeH I have 40,000 songs on my computer from my DJing days but they are pretty much all iTunes matched so they're mostly 256 kbps AAC.

 

[Joe Mac]

Dude my actual job title is TECHNICAL DIRECTOR and I've been thoroughly defeated by A MUSIC STREAMING SYSTEM

Does it identify on screen what is actually high res and what isn't? Can you search only high res?

And @MikeH I have 40,000 songs on my computer from my DJing days but they are pretty much all iTunes matched so they're mostly 256 kbps AAC.

They have either the hi res logo next to the album title on Qobuz or I think tidal have their own little Tidal Masters logo on them. I don’t know the second part though sorry, I tend to know what I want to play and am just a little bit extra happy if I see the hi res logo there!

 

[jamieanderson1968]

@Mather here is my setup. ( @debar22 this might be helpful as well). Definitely not high end but sufficient for my needs.

I use Roon. I have about 2500 (about 25,000 tracks) albums in FLAC format, about 50% are 16/44 and the rest are hi-res. I used to use Tidal but recently dropped that to Apple Music, which sadly does not integrate into Roon. They are on external hard drive connected to my iMac. This my Roon server.

I have a Bluesound Node 2i (about $599CDN). You can walk down to Bay Bloor and grab it right now. I have the Node connected through RCA cables into my 50yo Marantz. Roon streams to this, no problem, easy-peasy. I can use Roon on my iMac, iPhone or iPad to control the stream to either the Node. This is how I mostly use it and does exactly what I want. Never skips or stutters.

The Node has a decent built in DAC but you can also connect it to an external DAC if that is your preference.

I can also use Roon to stream to my Sonos speaker in the kitchen (16/44 only). I can also use Airplay to stream to my Apple TV and through to my shitty soundbar if I want (I rarely do this).

At some point I might move my AudioEngine 5As downstairs and connect them to a Raspberry Pi, but for now the Sonos works for me.

 

[jamieanderson1968]

Dude my actual job title is TECHNICAL DIRECTOR and I've been thoroughly defeated by A MUSIC STREAMING SYSTEM

Does it identify on screen what is actually high res and what isn't? Can you search only high res?

And @MikeH I have 40,000 songs on my computer from my DJing days but they are pretty much all iTunes matched so they're mostly 256 kbps AAC.

Sort of. The desktop app allows you to search by hi-res but it is trickier on the phone. I found on Tidal, new big name artists' stuff was in MQA/hi-res but back catalogue was hit or miss. For example on Tidal, only 3 Talking Heads albums are in hi-res, the rest were cd quality.

 

[Mather]

@Mather here is my setup. ( @debar22 this might be helpful as well). Definitely not high end but sufficient for my needs.

I use Roon. I have about 2500 (about 25,000 tracks) albums in FLAC format, about 50% are 16/44 and the rest are hi-res. I used to use Tidal but recently dropped that to Apple Music, which sadly does not integrate into Roon. They are on external hard drive connected to my iMac. This my Roon server.

I have a Bluesound Node 2i (about $599CDN). You can walk down to Bay Bloor and grab it right now. I have the Node connected through RCA cables into my 50yo Marantz. Roon streams to this, no problem, easy-peasy. I can use Roon on my iMac, iPhone or iPad to control the stream to either the Node. This is how I mostly use it and does exactly what I want. Never skips or stutters.

The Node has a decent built in DAC but you can also connect it to an external DAC if that is your preference.

I can also use Roon to stream to my Sonos speaker in the kitchen (16/44 only). I can also use Airplay to stream to my Apple TV and through to my shitty soundbar if I want (I rarely do this).

At some point I might move my AudioEngine 5As downstairs and connect them to a Raspberry Pi, but for now the Sonos works for me.

 

[jamieanderson1968]

I swear it is easier if I explain it over 2 or 5 beers.

 

[MikeH]

Dude my actual job title is TECHNICAL DIRECTOR and I've been thoroughly defeated by A MUSIC STREAMING SYSTEM

Does it identify on screen what is actually high res and what isn't? Can you search only high res?

And @MikeH I have 40,000 songs on my computer from my DJing days but they are pretty much all iTunes matched so they're mostly 256 kbps AAC.

Even if that's the case with your 40,000 songs only being AAC, you could still incorporate those in Roon and pretty sure Roon will override which files to play if there's a better quality on Tidal or whatever service you are using. Since you're a technical director, I feel like you'd love Roon's capabilities. You can filter by pretty much anything from sample rate to format to bit depth to album producer, etc:


And it shows you the signal path on anything you are playing:

 

[Joe Mac]

Even if that's the case with your 40,000 songs only being AAC, you could still incorporate those in Roon and pretty sure Roon will override which files to play if there's a better quality on Tidal or whatever service you are using. Since you're a technical director, I feel like you'd love Roon's capabilities. You can filter by pretty much anything from sample rate to format to bit depth to album producer, etc:
View attachment 108314

And it shows you the signal path on anything you are playing:

View attachment 108315

I love the dynamic range indicator on there! No surprises that the SACD rip of the MoFi Nilsson Schmilsson is pretty high up…

 

[MikeH]

So I got some general questions about hi-res digital audio. First, for the streaming services that do offer hi-res streaming, is it mostly newer music that's available in hi-res, or is there a lot of older (before 2000s) music available in hi-res also? For older stuff, do they usually re-master from original (analog) tapes (where available) or pull from previous hi-res digital transfers? What sources are used to generate the hi-res files? Like for stuff from the 90s, a lot of albums were tracked to ADAT and mastered to DAT at CD-quality (or 20-bit 48 kHz at best). How would hi-res files improve upon CD rips when the source material is at that quality?

I understand for newer stuff from the past 10, maybe 15 years and in the future, hi-res is an improvement over CD-quality since even for basic home recording, 24-bit high-sample rate has been readily attainable & even the standard. But just curious about the quality of older stuff in hi-res. Also, does anyone offer high-res purchases & downloads (not streaming)? I know I've seen some of my bandcamp purchases available in hi-res, but was wondering if there's any larger marketplaces for hi-res files. I prefer "owning" the files and using my preferred player, instead of relying on streaming services and possible unavailability of certain songs or albums.

I ripped almost all of my CDs (600+) to lossless many years ago. For convenience purposes, I use iTunes to manage & play my library. Converts the files to max-quality lossy AAC when syncing to my phone (which I'm okay with for the car/work). But it plays the original lossless files at home. I have an Apple Airport Express hooked up to my main system, and I stream from iTunes on my iMac to it via Airplay 2. I have Sonos speakers everywhere else that can stream via Airplay 2 as well.

Airplay is limited to 16/44.1 though I believe, which is why I ask all the above. I'm planning on moving within the next 18 months, and it will involve at least partially modifying & upgrading my audio setup(s). Trying to figure if it's worth taking hi-res in consideration at this point or just wait another 5 years when it's more prevalent. I do have a small amount of hi-res files currently, but it's mostly vinyl rips of 45s or LPs that aren't readily available elsewhere digitally, and it's such a tiny portion of my music library.

Sorry for the essay lol

I personally have used high-res streaming way more than I thought I would. I still spin records a ton as well. I think it's a smart thing to add into your system eventually, especially since you have so many ripped files.

Qobuz has a high-res shop to buy downloads from. There are other places like HDTracks, which is probably comparable to new CD prices. Bandcamp is fantastic. They are my go-to any time a record I want is on there because they include the high-res download. You can also just buy the high-res there on a lot of albums without needing to buy physical media. There are a few others too. What.cd was a great place to get tons of rips (RIP). Other sites have popped up similar to it.

Roon really shines in your situation to make everything very seamless between those downloads + any streaming service like Qobuz or Tidal. It really depends on what you want your monthly subscription costs to be though. I think Roon is $10/month if you subscribe for a year (they might still have the lifetime subscription too but its pricey...last I checked it was $700). Plus you have to subscribe to Qobuz or Tidal. I justify it because I listen to it every day especially since I'm working at home for the foreseeable future.

Similar to @jamieanderson1968 I have my Roon connected to my two high-res setups in my office and living room, and all my Sonos speakers. I even have it hooked up to a google home in our kitchen. Sound quality obviously isn't as good on the Sonos as on the dedicated high-res setups but it makes it easy to listen to anything in my library on any of my devices.

I'd recommend getting a free trial of Qobuz or Tidal (not sure if Tidal still does it?) and scoping out their libraries to see what's higher res than CD and which libraries are a good fit. I really like Qobuz but my tastes skew toward older rock lately (80s and before) and jazz.

 

[debar22]

@Mather here is my setup. ( @debar22 this might be helpful as well). Definitely not high end but sufficient for my needs.

I use Roon. I have about 2500 (about 25,000 tracks) albums in FLAC format, about 50% are 16/44 and the rest are hi-res. I used to use Tidal but recently dropped that to Apple Music, which sadly does not integrate into Roon. They are on external hard drive connected to my iMac. This my Roon server.

I have a Bluesound Node 2i (about $599CDN). You can walk down to Bay Bloor and grab it right now. I have the Node connected through RCA cables into my 50yo Marantz. Roon streams to this, no problem, easy-peasy. I can use Roon on my iMac, iPhone or iPad to control the stream to either the Node. This is how I mostly use it and does exactly what I want. Never skips or stutters.

The Node has a decent built in DAC but you can also connect it to an external DAC if that is your preference.

I can also use Roon to stream to my Sonos speaker in the kitchen (16/44 only). I can also use Airplay to stream to my Apple TV and through to my shitty soundbar if I want (I rarely do this).

At some point I might move my AudioEngine 5As downstairs and connect them to a Raspberry Pi, but for now the Sonos works for me.

I personally have used high-res streaming way more than I thought I would. I still spin records a ton as well. I think it's a smart thing to add into your system eventually, especially since you have so many ripped files.

Qobuz has a high-res shop to buy downloads from. There are other places like HDTracks, which is probably comparable to new CD prices. Bandcamp is fantastic. They are my go-to any time a record I want is on there because they include the high-res download. You can also just buy the high-res there on a lot of albums without needing to buy physical media. There are a few others too. What.cd was a great place to get tons of rips (RIP). Other sites have popped up similar to it.

Roon really shines in your situation to make everything very seamless between those downloads + any streaming service like Qobuz or Tidal. It really depends on what you want your monthly subscription costs to be though. I think Roon is $10/month if you subscribe for a year (they might still have the lifetime subscription too but its pricey...last I checked it was $700). Plus you have to subscribe to Qobuz or Tidal. I justify it because I listen to it every day especially since I'm working at home for the foreseeable future.

Similar to @jamieanderson1968 I have my Roon connected to my two high-res setups in my office and living room, and all my Sonos speakers. I even have it hooked up to a google home in our kitchen. Sound quality obviously isn't as good on the Sonos as on the dedicated high-res setups but it makes it easy to listen to anything in my library on any of my devices.

I'd recommend getting a free trial of Qobuz or Tidal (not sure if Tidal still does it?) and scoping out their libraries to see what's higher res than CD and which libraries are a good fit. I really like Qobuz but my tastes skew toward older rock lately (80s and before) and jazz.

Thanks!

Are hi-res files purchased & downloaded from Tidal, Apple Music or Qobuz DRM-free?

Roon looks awesome, but I'd like to keep using iTunes (or I guess it's just called Music now on the Macs) to manage & play my local library since it's still the only reliable system to sync to mobile devices and maintain playcounts & ratings. I've got at least 10 years worth of playcount info, ratings and smart playlists in there. Also, I probably won't subscribe to any hi-res streaming services for now, so that negates another advantage of Roon. I'm stubborn, I still prefer playing from my local library. I share a family plan Spotify account with my sister, so I usually use that to check out new music, but then I seek out digital copies of stuff I like.

I'm currently using an Airport Express connected to my main setup to Airplay to from my iMac, but Airplay is limited to 16/44. In my new setup, I'll have a dedicated audio/entertainment room, so I'll just hardwire my iMac to my main setup through a DAC so I can play hi-res audio there. Then I can just Airplay to my Sonos speakers in the living areas where 16/44 is sufficient.

 

[jamieanderson1968]

Thanks!

Are hi-res files purchased & downloaded from Tidal, Apple Music or Qobuz DRM-free?

Roon looks awesome, but I'd like to keep using iTunes (or I guess it's just called Music now on the Macs) to manage & play my local library since it's still the only reliable system to sync to mobile devices and maintain playcounts & ratings. I've got at least 10 years worth of playcount info, ratings and smart playlists in there. Also, I probably won't subscribe to any hi-res streaming services for now, so that negates another advantage of Roon. I'm stubborn, I still prefer playing from my local library. I share a family plan Spotify account with my sister, so I usually use that to check out new music, but then I seek out digital copies of stuff I like.

I'm currently using an Airport Express connected to my main setup to Airplay to from my iMac, but Airplay is limited to 16/44. In my new setup, I'll have a dedicated audio/entertainment room, so I'll just hardwire my iMac to my main setup through a DAC so I can play hi-res audio there. Then I can just Airplay to my Sonos speakers in the living areas where 16/44 is sufficient.

Sounds like a nice simple set up. I actually never downloaded stuff from Tidal for offline listening but I think it was only in cd quality. It is probably the same with Apple Music. Not sure how Qobuz would work since they also have the hi-res music store.

 

[debar22]

What.cd was a great place to get tons of rips (RIP).

I remember trying to figure out how to get an invite to what.cd a long time ago, and giving up

I still use soulseek, but its P2P, so it has nowhere near the reliability in quality as something like what.cd. It's awesome for occasionally finding one random person who has something like old mixtapes from the late 90s, early 00's that I can't find anywhere else. Most of the hi-res stuff I find on there are vinyl rips though - any other hi-res files I don't trust the source - it could've been someone upsampling a CD rip.

 

[jamieanderson1968]

Wow I did not realize Soulseek was still around. I use Orpheus for torrents, which sort of filled the gap of What.cd (and the mighty Oink before that). I am also a member of a couple of private blogs that do hi-res vinylrips. Plus purchase quite a bit through bandcamp.

 

[JohnnyCashFan]

Mara Machines-MARA MCI HiFi 14 Inch 2 Track With Additional Reproduce Head For External Electronics-Reel To Reel Machines|Acoustic Sounds

Acoustic Sounds Audiophile Vinyl Records

store.acousticsounds.com

Arriving Friday.

Can't believe nightmather didn't grab one of those Studer 2 tracks from CBC when they sold them off and went all digital

 

[debar22]

Wow I did not realize Soulseek was still around. I use Orpheus for torrents, which sort of filled the gap of What.cd (and the mighty Oink before that). I am also a member of a couple of private blogs that do hi-res vinylrips. Plus purchase quite a bit through bandcamp.

Yeah, I used soulseek a lot in the early to mid 2000s and then slowly stopped using it when I figured out torrents. I was also surprised a few years ago when I found it was still active.

 

[Mather]

Can't believe nightmather didn't grab one of those Studer 2 tracks from CBC when they sold them off and went all digital

Dude. If I had the chance at the time. I was looking through the geep bin last week and it was full of Sony Camera CCU units. I was trying to figure out if I could sell them for anything worthwhile...