The N&G Listening Club V1 - Archive only

I wanted to make a post the other night about what has been discussed above, but had no idea how to go about it, so here goes what little I can offer.

I honestly live in fear that one day I'll find out that my favorite musicians, people that made art that has impacted my life and helped me through tough times, are complete pieces of shit. It's a horrible feeling to have and I wish that I didn't have to worry about it, but the reality is that many powerful people, most of them men with influence in the film or music industry, were able to get away with this absolutely disgusting behavior for so long and odds are there's so many more than we can even begin to know about.

The only time where it's hit my personal musical library hard was with Crystal Castles. Their second album is (was? idk) one of my favorite albums of all time. But knowing how those records were made, what Alice Glass had to endure to put what she did into that music, makes me sick to my stomach and want to bury Ethan Kath alive for being such a fucking shitbag. I wasn't a fan of R. Kelly, Brand New, Ryan Adams or many of the other numerous artists who have been faced with these accusations, but I empathize with those that were. It's easy to use hindsight and give others shit for liking an artist who has since been revealed as problematic, until that headline surfaces about an artist that you love. My heart goes out to everyone who has been taken advantage by those in power and I can only hope they can be encouraged to tell their stories as well, because the message needs to be sent that this shit won't be tolerated. And sadly, it's just something we have to reckon with that no matter how much it sucks to have our favorite music tainted for us, that pain can never match up with the pain those coming out had to go through.
 
gaporter said:
I wanted to make a post the other night about what has been discussed above, but had no idea how to go about it, so here goes what little I can offer.

I honestly live in fear that one day I'll find out that my favorite musicians, people that made art that has impacted my life and helped me through tough times, are complete pieces of shit. It's a horrible feeling to have and I wish that I didn't have to worry about it, but the reality is that many powerful people, most of them men with influence in the film or music industry, were able to get away with this absolutely disgusting behavior for so long and odds are there's so many more than we can even begin to know about.

The only time where it's hit my personal musical library hard was with Crystal Castles. Their second album is (was? idk) one of my favorite albums of all time. But knowing how those records were made, what Alice Glass had to endure to put what she did into that music, makes me sick to my stomach and want to bury Ethan Kath alive for being such a fucking shitbag. I wasn't a fan of R. Kelly, Brand New, Ryan Adams or many of the other numerous artists who have been faced with these accusations, but I empathize with those that were. It's easy to use hindsight and give others shit for liking an artist who has since been revealed as problematic, until that headline surfaces about an artist that you love. My heart goes out to everyone who has been taken advantage by those in power and I can only hope they can be encouraged to tell their stories as well, because the message needs to be sent that this shit won't be tolerated. And sadly, it's just something we have to reckon with that no matter how much it sucks to have our favorite music tainted for us, that pain can never match up with the pain those coming out had to go through.
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Nicely said. I was never a huge Ryan Adams fan, so it was easy to give up his music for his douchebaggery. I’ve never heard a song by Brand New or Crystal Castles, so again, easy. Really the only artist I thoroughly enjoyed but can no longer listen to is Michael Jackson. That’s some fucked up shit he did, and can no longer play anything by him. It pisses me off when I’m at work listening to the radio and I find myself absentmindedly tapping my feet to Rock With You.
 
Sonicpharmacist said:
Nicely said. I was never a huge Ryan Adams fan, so it was easy to give up his music for his douchebaggery. I’ve never heard a song by Brand New or Crystal Castles, so again, easy. Really the only artist I thoroughly enjoyed but can no longer listen to is Michael Jackson. That’s some fucked up shit he did, and can no longer play anything by him. It pisses me off when I’m at work listening to the radio and I find myself absentmindedly tapping my feet to Rock With You.
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Honestly, as a lifelong fan of Michael Jackson's music, I can still enjoy it. The guy was super talented and had some great songs.

Oddly enough, where I work at IKEA they still play a lot of MJ, and even weirder, "I Believe I Can Fly" by R. Kelly.
 
Sonicpharmacist said:
The Seer feels more like it was meant to be taken in as a whole piece of music rather than individual tracks, like To Be Kind. And I agree, not all of it works. I find myself skipping A Piece or Sky (the field recordings go on too long), and while it sets the proper tone, Lunacy is a weak track to open the album. But the good is fucking fantastic. The Apostate kills me every time.
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I completely agree that The Seer should be taken as a whole and To Be Kind is more of a really good set of tracks. I find myself coming back to individual tracks from To Be Kind much more often than those from The Seer.

Lunacy and A Piece of the Sky, especially after the drone section, are two of my favorites in the album personally.
 
So Swans-The Seer. The length of this album makes it hard to fit in on my morning commute. I make it to somewhere in the title track. Also it's not exactly the best music to bump at work. Student walks into the psychologist's office and hears this and it may raise a few suspicions. First impressions with teachers may not be so good as well.

It's themes fit right in with the sexual harassment/rape claims. The pain that comes from falling short as a person and loss of innocence. I wonder how the time frame of the alleged incident and the making of this album coincide?

So far I like it, but that didn't surprise me since they are grouped in with GYBE. I do find the scale of the work to be challenging to fit into my life. Also, emotionally it has a hard time fitting in. The question that comes to mind is, "When would I feel like listening to this album?"

I can't get past the Seer without my attention fading which makes me think why would an artist create of this to only have the audience not give it their full attention. Maybe splitting it across EPs would help? I also get the idea that there is a lot going on symbolically with the music. I wonder how comfortable they are with letting that be interpreted by the audience or are y motivated to have specific personal experiences communicated more directly?
 
gaporter said:
I wanted to make a post the other night about what has been discussed above, but had no idea how to go about it, so here goes what little I can offer.

I honestly live in fear that one day I'll find out that my favorite musicians, people that made art that has impacted my life and helped me through tough times, are complete pieces of shit. It's a horrible feeling to have and I wish that I didn't have to worry about it, but the reality is that many powerful people, most of them men with influence in the film or music industry, were able to get away with this absolutely disgusting behavior for so long and odds are there's so many more than we can even begin to know about.

The only time where it's hit my personal musical library hard was with Crystal Castles. Their second album is (was? idk) one of my favorite albums of all time. But knowing how those records were made, what Alice Glass had to endure to put what she did into that music, makes me sick to my stomach and want to bury Ethan Kath alive for being such a fucking shitbag. I wasn't a fan of R. Kelly, Brand New, Ryan Adams or many of the other numerous artists who have been faced with these accusations, but I empathize with those that were. It's easy to use hindsight and give others shit for liking an artist who has since been revealed as problematic, until that headline surfaces about an artist that you love. My heart goes out to everyone who has been taken advantage by those in power and I can only hope they can be encouraged to tell their stories as well, because the message needs to be sent that this shit won't be tolerated. And sadly, it's just something we have to reckon with that no matter how much it sucks to have our favorite music tainted for us, that pain can never match up with the pain those coming out had to go through.
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Ok so I wrote this last night when I was tired and naturally had some heavy emotions about the topic but I left out a very important part that pertains to this thread. I know @Taevis had absolutely no ill intent in choosing Swans and these allegations went under the radar for practically everyone and I think it is still very much worth discussing the music, regardless of who is behind it. I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear enough.
 
The Seer rocks. Great pick. I'm glad the topic came up about the allegations...it adds to an interesting discussion. IMO...there is value in separating the art from the artist. I believe we are a flawed humanity and the collective offerings of artistry depict the angst we face in everyday life or some mechanism to distract us from it. I would rather listen to art made by an artist whose actions violated the morals I hold true than listen to music that directly promotes actions that violate the morals I hold true. Exceptions to this would be art that wouldn’t be possible and continually adds profit to the artist if not for the violation of another. An exception on the opposite end of the spectrum is art that I enjoyed when I didn’t have this life outlook that still has sentimental value: ie a lot of 90-00 rap that objectifies women and promotes ruthless violence.
 
Sonicpharmacist said:
The Seer feels more like it was meant to be taken in as a whole piece of music rather than individual tracks, like To Be Kind. And I agree, not all of it works. I find myself skipping A Piece or Sky (the field recordings go on too long), and while it sets the proper tone, Lunacy is a weak track to open the album. But the good is fucking fantastic. The Apostate kills me every time.
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Yeah, I can definitely get behind this. To Be Kind has some fucking STELLAR tracks, and if I had to sit down and think about it, I'm sure I've probably reached more for individual TBK tracks than Seer tracks throughout the years. But The Seer is an album that equals out to so much more than the sum of its parts IMO, whereas TBK is just a really great collection of songs. Even though it feels wrong using "accessible" and "Swans" in the same sentence, I'd probably recommend songs like A Little God In My Hands or Oxygen as the easiest (relative term :P) way to get into this period of Swans
 
chrb98 said:
Yeah, I can definitely get behind this. To Be Kind has some fucking STELLAR tracks, and if I had to sit down and think about it, I'm sure I've probably reached more for individual TBK tracks than Seer tracks throughout the years. But The Seer is an album that equals out to so much more than the sum of its parts IMO, whereas TBK is just a really great collection of songs. Even though it feels wrong using "accessible" and "Swans" in the same sentence, I'd probably recommend songs like A Little God In My Hands or Oxygen as the easiest (relative term :p) way to get into this period of Swans
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I’LL STEAL ALL THE OXYGEN!
 
As today is the last day of The Seer being the album of the week, I just want to thank whoever actually took the time to listen to this album. I hope you enjoyed it.

I also want to say I’m glad the accusations against Gira were brought up. It provoked an interesting discussion and made me think about separating music and artists. He’s the first person I actively listen to that I’ve had to do that for.

I love this album, and I’m glad I was able to share it with you all. Sure it’s 2 hours long, but for me it is one of the most rewarding and satisfying listens in music. My favorite tracks are Lunacy, The Seer, Song for a Warrior, Avatar, and A Piece of the Sky.
 
This one is long and I didn’t have the time this week to give it one dedicated listen, but I have listened to it several times.

The accusations give the music context which is interesting, I’m not sure it would have made as much sense without that information. It is music of someone struggling with themself.

What makes it hard to deal with artists and their art once you realize that they are human like the rest of us and not worthy of shrine making is that often times their music doesn’t reflect their imperfect nature or their problems. Sometimes, like Michael Jackson, certain songs take on a context that makes them unlistenable.

I’d rather listen to music like this that is difficult emotionally and comes from a place of honesty than music with similar themes that are basically fiction.

As art, this album is on a different plane. I’m not going to be adding it to my collection and it won’t be on regular rotation, but I’m happy to have been exposed to it, glad for the conversation this week and honestly interested in the concept that some art doesn’t necessarily need to be separated... I think context makes this art better.
 
Bohnjaggs said:
...my wife is out of town all week...
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Reminds me of this:

Goatfish said:
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