The N&G Science Discussion Thread

nolalady said:
@jaycee I thought you might like this one. Scientists are finding evidence that octopi might dream.

According to neurobiologist Philippe Mourrain at Stanford University, there has been no evidence of a single species that does not sleep. But until recently, it was thought only mammals and birds show distinct sleep states.

Increasing evidence has demonstrated that animals other than birds and mammals, such as reptiles, fish, cuttlefish – the rounder cousin of the octopus – and now octopuses show distinct sleep states. Importantly, these states are similar to what we see in humans.

In humans, vivid dreaming occurs during REM sleep. The features exhibited by octopuses during their active sleep states suggests these large-brained molluscs might be experiencing a similar phenomenon to dreaming. But unlike REM sleep in humans, active sleep in octopuses is short, ranging from seconds to one minute.

So, if an octopus is dreaming, it’s unlikely they would experience elaborate and complex plots as we do. Rather, an octopus dream would be fleeting like a Boomerang story on Instagram or a GIF.
theconversation.com

Sleeping octopuses might experience fleeting dreams – new study

Colour-changing patterns in snoozing octopuses are characteristic of two alternating sleep states.
theconversation.com theconversation.com
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Thanks. I probably mentioned my affinity for cephalopods to you before. I just like things that have managed to survive on the earth through various extinction events and I'm interested in their complex communication. I also have an affinity for plants that have been around on earth for a long time and find their niches to keep existing.

I'm also interested in this stuff because when I was a young person 20+ years ago people were debating about animal feelings and learning. It seemed fairly self-evident to me but the placement of humans in at the top of hierarchy of learned creatures was/is difficult to overcome. What's become more and more clear to me over the years is the ramifications of viewing humans as something different to the other animals and/or something created in the eyes of a god. I think those ramifications have been mostly negative for humans, other living things, and the earth.

At some point I hope that our species evolves, triggered by these observations, to more fully understand themselves as part of this thing that's bigger than themselves.
 
gouis said:


Warning it's 6 parts and 8 hours long. But he's a BBC documentary maker that uses BBC archive footage to talk about how the world got to be how it currently is (fucked up). He's well known in English and Australian circles but I just discovered him.

This 'film' is mostly about how we as a world got to the default idea of individualism using case studies (Tupak, Jiang Qing (Mao Zedong's wife), English housewives, Nixon, etc) and how it's shaped our modern world. And how this existing power structure makes it impossible for any one person to change the system. It can be a bit overwhelming but it's extremely hypnotic.

I AM OBSESSED WITH IT.
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So I watched this over the weekend and I'm still processing. I'm probably going to need to go back and watch it again. It is overwhelming. I found myself mostly finding some clarity about things I have been thinking and feeling, and also getting some history that I didn't have and wasn't bothered to really learn. Thank you for turning me on to it.

I'm not sure I can summarize it differently than you already have. I was left a little tormented which I think is maybe part of the point. I was left thinking and feeling that neither the individual nor the system can change systems. The systems will defend themselves and the individual can only influence the system by expressing the self... but without the motivation of the self, that systems are using as fuel and defense, the consciousness necessary to see the systems for what they are can not be realized.

If individuals reaching a same or similar realization about the banking and market overlords, while depending on those same overlords for their "self," is what's needed to create the environment to reduce system control it feels pretty hopeless, but that's probably the easy emotion.

It's really worth the time investment.
 
jaycee said:
So I watched this over the weekend and I'm still processing. I'm probably going to need to go back and watch it again. It is overwhelming. I found myself mostly finding some clarity about things I have been thinking and feeling, and also getting some history that I didn't have and wasn't bothered to really learn. Thank you for turning me on to it.

I'm not sure I can summarize it differently than you already have. I was left a little tormented which I think is maybe part of the point. I was left thinking and feeling that neither the individual nor the system can change systems. The systems will defend themselves and the individual can only influence the system by expressing the self... but without the motivation of the self, that systems are using as fuel and defense, the consciousness necessary to see the systems for what they are can not be realized.

If individuals reaching a same or similar realization about the banking and market overlords, while depending on those same overlords for their "self," is what's needed to create the environment to reduce system control it feels pretty hopeless, but that's probably the easy emotion.

It's really worth the time investment.
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ONE OF US. ONE OF US.
 
jaycee said:
So I watched this over the weekend and I'm still processing. I'm probably going to need to go back and watch it again. It is overwhelming. I found myself mostly finding some clarity about things I have been thinking and feeling, and also getting some history that I didn't have and wasn't bothered to really learn. Thank you for turning me on to it.

I'm not sure I can summarize it differently than you already have. I was left a little tormented which I think is maybe part of the point. I was left thinking and feeling that neither the individual nor the system can change systems. The systems will defend themselves and the individual can only influence the system by expressing the self... but without the motivation of the self, that systems are using as fuel and defense, the consciousness necessary to see the systems for what they are can not be realized.

If individuals reaching a same or similar realization about the banking and market overlords, while depending on those same overlords for their "self," is what's needed to create the environment to reduce system control it feels pretty hopeless, but that's probably the easy emotion.

It's really worth the time investment.
Click to expand...
Just started watching his previous one, HyperNormilisation just today between class and faculty meeting to "relax".

Gonna try to invite my friend over to watch it at some point and play the Adam Curtis Drinking Game where you take a shot every time a ‘dark’, ‘dangerous’ or ‘destructive’ force is ‘unleashed’”
 
gouis said:
Just started watching his previous one, HyperNormilisation just today between class and faculty meeting to "relax".

Gonna try to invite my friend over to watch it at some point and play the Adam Curtis Drinking Game where you take a shot every time a ‘dark’, ‘dangerous’ or ‘destructive’ force is ‘unleashed’”
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hahaha.... is there enough booze in all of rochester?

i'm referring friends and co-workers to can't get you out of my head... going to check out his previous works too. i found a podcast interviewing curtis today, talking about cgyomh. it was cool to hear him talk about it in his own words.
 
jaycee said:
hahaha.... is there enough booze in all of rochester?

i'm referring friends and co-workers to can't get you out of my head... going to check out his previous works too. i found a podcast interviewing curtis today, talking about cgyomh. it was cool to hear him talk about it in his own words.
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It does feel like an imperative to make other people watch this. It made me personally feel like I have a much better handle on what's going on in general.

As a fellow addict please point me towards this pod.
 
gouis said:
It does feel like an imperative to make other people watch this. It made me personally feel like I have a much better handle on what's going on in general.

As a fellow addict please point me towards this pod.
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I only found this just by searching Adam Curtis pod so I can't speak to the podcast itself. The interviewer seems to have some kind of personal relationship with Curtis.
 
jaycee said:
I only found this just by searching Adam Curtis pod so I can't speak to the podcast itself. The interviewer seems to have some kind of personal relationship with Curtis.
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I listened for 5 seconds and it's already the most British thing I've encountered in 2021.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
You guys see this...

Finding From Particle Research Could Rewrite Known Laws of Physics

“We can say with fairly high confidence, there must be something contributing to this white space,” he said. “What monsters might be lurking there?”
View attachment 94699

Might be time to take up smoking again.
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We've found the evidence for alternate dimensions, get your DeLoreans ready. (not really but this does remind me of some string theory posturing about sandwiched dimensions that act upon our own)
 
nolalady said:
We've found the evidence for alternate dimensions, get your DeLoreans ready. (not really but this does remind me of some string theory posturing about sandwiched dimensions that act upon our own)
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String theory is

giphy.webp
 
Asked my colleague who is a particle physicist to ELI5:

"Muons carry spin (like electrons) and feel external magnetic fields. Use g to describe the magnetic moment. If only Standard Model particles exist, the value of g is cleanly predictable. BNL and FNAL experiments together have measured a value that deviates from this by about 4 measurement uncertainties. 5 is typically when we start popping champagne. g-2 can’t tell you what new particles are out there, only that something is undiscovered."

More importantly he told me that we can still make string theory jokes.
 
I saw this film at an Eels show in Philly on the blinking lights tour i don't know when... maybe 2009 at the first unitarian church. Anyway apparently E's father was a physicist at Princeton who was an early pioneer / adopter of many universe theory. I don't think


thought people might be interested here if you have a passing interest in this stuff.
 
nolalady said:
I've been reading a loooot about this one.

From what I understand, this is the plot of 2004's The Day After Tomorrow.
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RenegadeMonster said:
Yes and no.

We will not get cyclones across the globe instantly bringing in an Ice Age. But the trigger for it happening was the shutdown of this current.

This is something that has been known for some time. I remember seeing it mentioned on the Discovery Channel back in High School. Before 2004.

But back then it was more of a theory. And that it could happen if the earth continues to warm. But it was not something at the time they believed would happen this century. Not in our life times.

But alas, now top research believe it could destabilize at any time and collapse. We just don't know when that will be and what the crucial threshold will be.

Data released last week also showed that the earth is warming much faster than expected.

The time to act probably has already passed. Meanwhile the GOP still does not believe in global warming or any green policies and want's nothing more than to block them all for the foreseeable future.
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This is a well-known phenomenon the exact ramifications of which on the present are unknown. There are multiple drivers for these events. Their ties to northern hemisphere cooling and warming are strong. Here's a good summary from NOAA Heinrich and Dansgaard–Oeschger Events | National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI) formerly known as National Climatic Data Center (NCDC)

The media headlines about this information and the recent IPCC report have been frustrating. The drama creation and the fear-inducing verbiage are super problematic and really doing harm particularly if you consider the long-term ramifications of science distrust they create. Is this a serious thing to think about? Absolutely. Is the world going to end? No.

Adaptation is always possible and will be necessary, but any southerly shift of the Gulf Stream in the North Atlantic is not a world-ender. The ocean current will change not "collapse" as has been reported. I'm not trying to downplay the significance of a human-induced warming atmosphere on these events or their impact on climate and weather. It's significant that disruptions /weakening of the current are being observed, but it's important to keep these things in perspective. The earth has been altered by us. Greenhouse gasses and current human behaviors will continue to alter it. People can do things differently and will have to as the changes continue. Going back in-time or reversing what is occurring isn't possible. Mitigating negative impacts is but will require cooperation and thinking (planning) beyond the fiscal year or election cycle.
 
Jan said:
I liked this commentary
www.scientificamerican.com

If You Say 'Science Is Right,' You're Wrong

It can’t supply absolute truths about the world, but it brings us steadily closer
www.scientificamerican.com www.scientificamerican.com
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For the same reason, I prefer to say "I trust the scientific process" in the long-term, and not that "I trust the science." I hope my grandkids and beyond look back on people like me and marvel at how backward and wrong some of my beliefs were.
 
gouis said:
Thanks for your contribution to the 'Science Discussion Thread'
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Coming from one the snarkiest human beings that I've ever encountered who is more than happy to lay into people for even the most minor faux pas’ I would thought you’d have been able to take being called out on your own ignorance. Seemingly not.
 
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