Vinyl Me Please Essentials

Ghost said:
I think y’all may be underestimating the generational significance as well. To a lot of people around my age (25) John Mayer was seemingly everywhere and was a massive pop culture icon whether you liked it or not and I recall people and peers swooning over his music and I imagine he is remembered fondly by members of my generation. The vinyl community is now made up of a lot of people my age who have been reveling in this past-time and a John Mayer record may indeed strike them as essential. To me it strikes me as THE essential John Mayer album to own and I always planned to have his music in my library at some point so I’m happy to get it through VMP treatment. We always have to look at these things subjectively where possible, for me Stevie Nicks was not essential based off enjoyability alone but that may be in large part due to my lack of associations with her i.e. nostalgia, generational relevance, etc etc. That being said with all the nasty racially fueled comments from JM this is an incredibly tone deaf ROTM and should’ve been weighed a bit further when it came to having this be the VMP sound track to another civil rights movement. I don’t think John Mayer is a genius songwriter but I do find his music to be the good mix of nostalgic, fun, and easy to listen to. We have all spent our money on albums that tick those boxes and have therefore deemed them essential records, I think perhaps this is a case of missed connections between generations. They’re probably trying to further scoop customers from my generation and this is a good album to do that with!
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Thanks so much for posting this. It definitely answers my primary question in all of this. I wanted to understand if there was actually something that I was missing in regards to some sort of cultural significance and, until now, I wasn't seeing a lot of that addressed in this thread. That definitely makes more sense to me, based on your comments.

As for his racial insensitivity, he seems to have, somehow, slipped past that rather unscathed, somehow. As a fan of the Grateful Dead, my aversions to Mayer fall more within that realm than anything.
 
KenKaniff said:
I look at as a mixture. Times where they want to go a little deeper for music and stories. Ayalew Mesfin, The Silvertones, etc. Then the opposite spectrum of Biggie, Moby - just massively popular names.
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and tbf neither mesfin nor the silvertones were big sellers so as a retailer what's their motivation to pick the deeper dives?

they're curating a certain customer base more than they are music
 
KenKaniff said:
I look at as a mixture. Times where they want to go a little deeper for music and stories. Ayalew Mesfin, The Silvertones, etc. Then the opposite spectrum of Biggie, Moby - just massively popular names.

There's albums that VMP search out for specifically because they want to do them. Then I'm sure there's albums that get presented to them and they go along with. but not necessarily "Essential" ones they'd search out. Maybe for Herbie Hancock they would of chose a different album from him if up to them, but maybe Herbie's team reached out thinking VMP would be a good fit and they had this certain album they want reissued through VMP. Take it or leave it if you want to be in the Herbie Hancock biz.

It is what it is. I think people that get their hearts broken here tend to be those that want one thing from VMP, or think there's some imaginary rules. For example - The people that want VMP to dig deep when VMP doesn't dig deep that month

Also the people who think there's some rules: "VMP wouldn't do that album, they repressed it a few years ago". "It's widely available and goes for $15, of course they wouldn't do that one". You've heard them all.
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Yes I agree, it’s why I don’t touch them with a barge pole. It doesn’t mean that they don’t sell based on an illusion of curation and merit, their stamp of approval being on it. That opens itself to discussions on merit. If they don’t what that then drop the blurb on it being their choice parachuted into your collection and just call it this months mandatory colour press of whatever album the labels were willing to dump on us.
 
Dead C said:
I don't give a fuck about your Facebook page. You're literally referring to my statements by discussing "music snobbery" and saying that you don't understand why someone would comment about Mayer "stealing from the blues," if they don't attack Jack White for the same thing. So, you're inferring a lot and twisting things. I specifically commented on him taking from a culture, while making racist comments about that exact same culture.

So... in the context of your post, Mayer is an "easy target" for music snobbery, because he said some stuff in the past and has an "off putting" personality. It's not a big deal to you, because he did a great concert for your family.

You can like John Mayer and you can enjoy his music and you can even not care about his past comments and all that's fine. But to dismiss that as an issue and explain why it isn't an issue, when you aren't someone that was ever affected by his statements in the first place... not really your place. If you were a black man explaining to me that, although he's done racist things in the past, you believe that they are in the past, you're over it, and you are a fan; that's a completely different situation. Instead, you are a white man, explaining why another white guy's racist statements are perfectly fine, because you think he rocks, and implying that anyone who takes issue or offense in his actions is just a snob taking shots at an "easy target." If you can't see the issue with that, that's the problem. In fact, in that interview, he was kind of making the case for why he's allowed to be a racist shithead in it.

No idea why you're mentioning James Brown, unless that's supposed to prove that you aren't racist. It's super left field and irrelevant. That being said, we can use that as an analogy. Let's say that we were in a situation where the world was coalescing behind an anti-domestic abuse movement and VMP opted to release a James Brown record at that moment. A woman on the forum comments that, as someone who either experienced or grew up around domestic violence, she questions the timing of a James Brown release right now. Then a man pops in to joke about music snobs and how easy it is to take shots at James Brown, but you saw him once and he's a great dancer. Doesn't matter.
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I simply defended the pick, the music. I was speaking to previous posts about the quality of his music...Not your post about anything he has said over the course of his career. It’s a real asshole move to decide that you know me, and that I’m a racist because I’m a white guy who lives in the South that once defended ‘Continuum’ on a public forum. Yes, my James Brown reference was about domestic abuse, simply saying I’m separating the art from the artist. If you don’t like that, then insert Axl Rose or whatever the hell you want. Again, I come hear to talk about music, certainly not to offend anyone or provoke anger.
 
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Joe Mac said:
Yes I agree, it’s why I don’t touch them with a barge pole. It doesn’t mean that they don’t sell based on an illusion of curation and merit, their stamp of approval being on it. That opens itself to discussions on merit. If they don’t what that then drop the blurb on it being their choice parachuted into your collection and just call it this months mandatory colour press of whatever album the labels were willing to dump on us.
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Agreed. I think people that look at selections like a "stamp of approval" or "essential for a collection" tend to pull their hair out. You know if you're a subscriber that you're in for a up & down journey and hopefully you're satisfied with swaps (and now the credit).

I have been in and out of VMP for years now. I don't expect any sort of quality of titles or "essential-ness" I stay around because some months picks, some swaps and the thrill of discovery. I still play Silvertones a lot, Becky and the Birds is a big favorite, etc... It's really opened my eyes (picks and store picks).
 
The curation aspect of VMP is the reason I got into them at the first and the (only) reason I've stuck around this long. Plus I haven't had any real issues, or the major issues that everyone has experienced had randomly occurred during major life events so haven't really effected me anyway (eg: I was out of the country for all of December when that all went down).

But Mayer for me is a sign that, in the essentials line at the very least, they don't care about the curation to the same degree anymore. And maybe thats fine; they've outgrown their original remit. To many, I've put up with it longer than I probably should have anyway. Unless the next 2 months are great, I'll change to classics only to the end of the year (when my sub is up) and then reexamine. Maybe I'll move over to Now-Again reserve, which I've been considering doing for a while now.
 
Dead C said:
Thanks so much for posting this. It definitely answers my primary question in all of this. I wanted to understand if there was actually something that I was missing in regards to some sort of cultural significance and, until now, I wasn't seeing a lot of that addressed in this thread. That definitely makes more sense to me, based on your comments.

As for his racial insensitivity, he seems to have, somehow, slipped past that rather unscathed, somehow. As a fan of the Grateful Dead, my aversions to Mayer fall more within that realm than anything.
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I do think those making VMP's selections skew younger than some of us. This was painfully obvious in the discussions of albums of 2009 as if that year was the vanguard of the Indie Rock scene. If anything that year was the tail end of what began with the Strokes, the White Stripes, Interpol and the other bands highlighted in Meet Me In The Bathroom. I could see how for someone in their teenage years during 2006 that John Mayer was ever present as a cultural touchstone, similar to how music from the 90s feels that way for me. So for a certain subset generationally, this pick may have cache to it. While I like the album just fine and will get it, I also am under no illusion that I am getting a masterpiece of an album or something that I've wanted for ages (I actually had to look up the cover since I had never seen the vinyl version before).

As to his racial insensitivity, it was a long time ago and he has been pretty much nothing but apologetic and humble about it for years. It was also in the throes of his drug and other addictions. I say that not to excuse his comments or try to invalidate anyone's feelings about it, but to provide the rationale as to why it doesn't haunt him like perhaps it would many others. His words were unequivocally offensive and a very poor attempt at humor. He's not the first musician to do himself harm in that way (Elvis Costello being the one that came to mind first). I can fully understand why people would not want to listen to or buy his music as a result of his words even a decade or so later.

As to the Dead connection, I am a huge Deadhead and have seen Dead and Company three times. I like them. He is no Jerry by any means. I enjoy their performances and think that on some of their songs he does bring some character of his own to them. Love their versions of Althea for example. Furthermore, Bob Weir has been an amazing influence on him as well, it is clear that Bobby has put Mayer in his place in terms of ego and being a team player. I've seen a lot of growth in Mayer from the mid-00s as a performer and musician. I get those Dead fans who don't like them and that's fine too.
 
wmeugene said:
I do think those making VMP's selections skew younger than some of us. This was painfully obvious in the discussions of albums of 2009 as if that year was the vanguard of the Indie Rock scene. If anything that year was the tail end of what began with the Strokes, the White Stripes, Interpol and the other bands highlighted in Meet Me In The Bathroom. I could see how for someone in their teenage years during 2006 that John Mayer was ever present as a cultural touchstone, similar to how music from the 90s feels that way for me. So for a certain subset generationally, this pick may have cache to it. While I like the album just fine and will get it, I also am under no illusion that I am getting a masterpiece of an album or something that I've wanted for ages (I actually had to look up the cover since I had never seen the vinyl version before).

As to his racial insensitivity, it was a long time ago and he has been pretty much nothing but apologetic and humble about it for years. It was also in the throes of his drug and other addictions. I say that not to excuse his comments or try to invalidate anyone's feelings about it, but to provide the rationale as to why it doesn't haunt him like perhaps it would many others. His words were unequivocally offensive and a very poor attempt at humor. He's not the first musician to do himself harm in that way (Elvis Costello being the one that came to mind first). I can fully understand why people would not want to listen to or buy his music as a result of his words even a decade or so later.

As to the Dead connection, I am a huge Deadhead and have seen Dead and Company three times. I like them. He is no Jerry by any means. I enjoy their performances and think that on some of their songs he does bring some character of his own to them. Love their versions of Althea for example. Furthermore, Bob Weir has been an amazing influence on him as well, it is clear that Bobby has put Mayer in his place in terms of ego and being a team player. I've seen a lot of growth in Mayer from the mid-00s as a performer and musician. I get those Dead fans who don't like them and that's fine too.
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I actually saw John Mayer once, when he was operating as the guitarist for Herbie Hancock. They did an almost entirely Headhunters-based set at Bonnaroo around... 2005(?) I was concerned and, while the one song that Herbie urged him to sing was definitely the weak point of the show, you could see him very aware of his place in that group, doing his job, while falling back to support a legend. In that position, he did his part, but it's a lot harder for me to take him in as a frontman.

What you're saying about him being apologetic.. I can see that to a degree. Over all, I, obviously, till don't think we should make too light of those past comments or act as if other people are looking for something to complain about, if they are still upset by them. That interview kind of reflected a guy who believed his own hype and was a real piece of shit. For him to be a success at all, someone like Mayer gets a huge pass for offering some pretty derivative material, putting a pop spin on stuff with a lot more soul and history. Once you start acting like you are some kind of god for doing it, it takes on a different tone. Once you say disparaging things regarding the culture you're taking from, it gets even worse.

In saying that I have an aversion to him in the Dead, I probably should have phrased it more as a continued apprehension.. I have no incredibly strong feelings about it one way or another, and I know people that fully stand behind it and others that definitely don't. My impression is that he might kill it on some tracks, and not so much on others. The early stuff I heard just wasn't jiving with me. I know it's difficult to win that base over. I saw it when they had Joan Osborne playing with them, back in the day, and actually enjoyed it. That was really short lived. I saw Phil's new band a couple of times last year, though, and did enjoy it quite a bit. I liked how they seemed to have the freedom to take those songs wherever they wanted.
 
Strange that there is so much discussion about this one, as it is clearly the worst essentials pick in the history of VMP. I’m normally all “don’t take ‘essential’ literally” but Jesus Christ, John Mayer as ROTM. This shit is DIRE, friends. Objectively, the shittiest ROTM since the start of the company.
 
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juiceless said:
Strange that there is so much discussion about this one, as it is clearly the worst essentials pick in the history of VMP. I’m normally all “don’t don’t ‘essential’ literally” but Jesus Christ, John Mayer as ROTM. This shit is DIRE, friends. Objectively, the shittiest ROTM since the start of the company.
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Unfortunately that is not objective but okay. SUBJECTIVELY it is your worst ROTM of all time and that’s fine.
 
jaycee said:
and tbf neither mesfin nor the silvertones were big sellers so as a retailer what's their motivation to pick the deeper dives?

they're curating a certain customer base more than they are music
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I really think VMP could make a Crate Digger sub work, with all the stuff like Jim Sullivan, Silvertones, Jorge Ben, etc. Smaller press. Let the explorers have their fun and don't anger the fans that stick to the broader roads.
 
TheThinWhiteDuke said:
I really think VMP could make a Crate Digger sub work, with all the stuff like Jim Sullivan, Silvertones, Jorge Ben, etc. Smaller press. Let the explorers have their fun and don't anger the fans that stick to the broader roads.
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I'm sure there's still some audience for that stuff, but i think that ship sailed when the VC $ came into the picture. I doubt the profit margin on that stuff is high enough.

I also doubt VMP staff would've come up with any of those picks on their own without their relationship to Egon / Now Again... or LITA and Mr. Bongo hadn't done it first.

... then again why buy from VMP when these other places already provide that service
 
jaycee said:
I'm sure there's still some audience for that stuff, but i think that ship sailed when the VC $ came into the picture. I doubt the profit margin on that stuff is high enough.

I also doubt VMP staff would've come up with any of those picks on their own without their relationship to Egon / Now Again... or LITA and Mr. Bongo hadn't done it first.

... then again why buy from VMP when these other places already provide that service
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That's my take, too. I feel like they'd basically just be doing variants of Now Again, LITA, Mr Bongo, and Tidal Wave releases, which they "essential"lly already do in their exclusives. VMP is rarely digging anything up themselves.
 
juiceless said:
I said what I said.
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Yeah that’s cool but what you said is objectively wrong. Distinctions are important, people are allowed to enjoy whatever they’d like so you coming in and saying that this is objectively the worst ROTM pick ever is just unnecessarily toxic to those who actually enjoy the music of John Mayer. If you would’ve stated that in your opinion this is the worst pick ever then we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Wording it one way makes you sound like a dick, wording it another makes for good discourse.
 
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