Vinyl Me Please Essentials

no offence but that thing is the same reason we are in this mess... people wanted a shit ton more vinyl pressings because more people want vinyl only or limited edition colors or all this other stuff and thus Gz has to rush its releases in the multi thousands to make sure they reach the deadline (because if not everyone will complain about a delay and if they do everyone will complain about QC), and the pandemic made it worse because of the obvious late stage capitalism... what was important about 2008 was vinyl was getting more popular but wasn't NEARLY as huge as it is now, it was still very much a niche that audiophiles had. vinyl is much more mainstream so the voting with your wallet has so much less to little impact

This is my opinion from a lot of different factors, but I believe the rising quality level and pricing of the late 2000's is the reason that the vinyl resurgence continued, and didn't die out on the vine earlier. And GZ isn't anywhere close to the level of the infamous Rainbo and United.
 
(also unrelated but not all GZ vinyl is horrible i was listening to porter robinsons nurture and it sounded fantastic.. the issue is I'm guessing so much quantity appealing to the newbie)
Yeah this. I can only think of one Gz album outside of all the vmp stuff that I've really had issues with. In my experience they're usually pretty decent when they're not working with vmp.
 
Not buying this, you are way off base on several points. You see there WAS a period of time that you describe and long for- it was called 2008. As the vinyl industry picked up in popularity, the labels were mass producing records to meet this new demand and relatively cheaply; $15-20 for new LP's and maybe $25 for doubles. But with such convenience came terrible quality- garbage digital transfers, shit jackets and sleeves, near bootleg labels (Plain, 4 Men With Beards), pressing plants that gave 0 fucks about quality (Rainbo, United).

And what happened? Buyers spoke with their wallets. They were tired of the bullshit, they wanted quality pressings and masterings. The industry adjusted, guys like Bellman and Gray started getting booked for all major reissues. Plants like Optimal, Pallas, QRP, RTI got more and more business and it became a selling point on hype stickers. High end vendors started using better shippers, offering better customer service. Prices went up!!!, But so did quality.

As a friend of mine who owned a record store told me about doing online business, returns for things like seam splits, bends, etc is just cost of business. You are going to eat it sometimes but the goal is to retain business. You tell a customer that it's not your fault that the jacket split in shipping well that's great you won the battle, but they will never buy from you again, so you make it right. This isn't even unique to records- ask any chef how many meals they've comped over customers just not being happy with what they ordered- you think those chefs tell them to stick with Olive Garden because the alfredo sauce tastes the same every time? If this becomes enough of a problem for vendors they will adjust in other ways; they'll make better shippers (like Acoustic Sounds), they will offer options to ship outside the jacket, etc. Good businesses don't adapt by blaming their buyers for not enjoying what they are selling. It's never worked.

No, the solutions isn't "accept imperfection or gtfo". You have every right in the world to get what you pay for and no one should take you on a guilt trip laying the ever rising costs of a hobby on you. If VMP emailed everyone tomorrow and said "hey we reached an agreement with Pallas where they can handle demand for our Essentials but we are going to have to raise prices to $50 a month" bro memberships would SOAR. Because music collectors don't mind paying for quality, they have a problem paying for a lack of it.
Sorry, but although you make some fair points here, I was buying records in 2008.

In 2008:

There were massive complaints about dishing and other issues with RTI pressed Classic records. They blamed it on 200g, but it was a big issue.

Amazon wasn't selling records. So you did not have the phenomenon of people buying a record and returning it because they didn't like the music, or for a minor cover crease. Since Amazon have become the de-facto go-to, that has become endemic.

There were plenty of big name mastering gurus doing vinyl. Bernie Grundman, the unfortunate Hoffman, Doug Sax, Stan Ricker, and even Grey at RTI. Those guys were being booked for major and even semi-minor reissues back then.

There was WAY WAY more junk vinyl. Rainbo was in full bloom, United was a major player competing with Rainbo to be the worst, MPO in France was so-so, Record Industry was ok, Optimal was pretty small, Pallas was first rate, Furnace was in business but not that highly regarded, GZ was operating but not as big (when American venture capital bought in in the late 90's, it really went downhill)...overall, there was worse quality then than there is now.

No one had a Crossley. If you got into vinyl in 2008, it was because of the sound, not the coolness. You had a proper turntable and stereo.

In 2008, it was common to see RTI or Pallas hype stickers.

QRP is new. RTI hasn't got any new business in decades - they are always full capacity, and won't expand that. Pallas also doesn't care to expand - they turn away business.

Digital mastering was prolific in 2008 as it is now. Maybe more now - labels rarely let master tapes out anymore.

In 2008, Acoustic Sounds, Music Direct, Elusive Disc and all the other major vinyl vendors used very secure shipping packages. Only Amazon did not. VMP did not exist.

You will note, upon investigation, that the cost of manufacturing really hasn't gone up all that significantly since 2008. But the prices have. Why? If it costs rather pennies more to produce to that better quality you seem to experience. So why the price jumps, which are massive?

It is well known. Returns. This is a simple economic reality.

Crossley players. Bent corners. 15 year old stylus, too cheap to replace. Misalignment. Didn't like the music. Though it was the super duper with xxx-yyy in the deadwax but it isn't. Not mastered well. Paper inner sleeve has a split. Think I'll go through 3 or 4 copies to get the best.

If you go to a restaurant and order chicken, and send it back because you really don't like chicken, that should be on you. If you are just experimenting at a restaurant and there is nothing wrong with the meal, but the experiment didn't work out, fuck you. If you are one of the deplorables who make a habit of returning means in the hopes of getting a freebie, you should get put out on your ass. If you are just that fussy, loud, constant complaining customer who won't be satisfied no matter what, the restaurant is better off without you as a customer.

Reality is, it was perceived to be better in 2008 because we were a small, dedicated niche who all had decent turntables, knew how to set them up, and there was little gimmicky stuff like colored vinyl and variants, we bought from real stores or online big boxes who packed bullet-proof and would ship with the records outside the sleeves to prevent seam splits, and there weren't as many players in the market.

And I am actually happy living in the now, and don't long for 2008 at all. Thanks for checking in on that.

By the way, the most vociferous defect complainers do NOT speak with their wallets. They keep on buying those groovy, cool, exclusive splatter colored vinyls and admiring their Discogs values. Back in 2008, we did not give two flying fucks about that. There was no Discogs. We just cared about the music and the sound.
 
Yeah this. I can only think of one Gz album outside of all the vmp stuff that I've really had issues with. In my experience they're usually pretty decent when they're not working with vmp.
GZ are one of the oldest, and without question the largest vinyl pressing company in the world. Aside from the well known Czech GZ, many will be surprised that they own many plants elsewhere around the world, including several in Canada and the United States.

It is my experience that no one running a business wants to do a poor job or produce shitty products. I'm sure that the people at these companies making a living don't like to believe they do a shit job.

It is also my experience, though, that manufacturers produce to their capability, which will vary. Some can attract capital to upgrade equipment and expand, some cannot. In many cases, the manufacturer is limited by the price point their customers expect.
 
Sorry, but although you make some fair points here, I was buying records in 2008.

In 2008:

There were massive complaints about dishing and other issues with RTI pressed Classic records. They blamed it on 200g, but it was a big issue.

Amazon wasn't selling records. So you did not have the phenomenon of people buying a record and returning it because they didn't like the music, or for a minor cover crease. Since Amazon have become the de-facto go-to, that has become endemic.

There were plenty of big name mastering gurus doing vinyl. Bernie Grundman, the unfortunate Hoffman, Doug Sax, Stan Ricker, and even Grey at RTI. Those guys were being booked for major and even semi-minor reissues back then.

There was WAY WAY more junk vinyl. Rainbo was in full bloom, United was a major player competing with Rainbo to be the worst, MPO in France was so-so, Record Industry was ok, Optimal was pretty small, Pallas was first rate, Furnace was in business but not that highly regarded, GZ was operating but not as big (when American venture capital bought in in the late 90's, it really went downhill)...overall, there was worse quality then than there is now.

No one had a Crossley. If you got into vinyl in 2008, it was because of the sound, not the coolness. You had a proper turntable and stereo.

In 2008, it was common to see RTI or Pallas hype stickers.

QRP is new. RTI hasn't got any new business in decades - they are always full capacity, and won't expand that. Pallas also doesn't care to expand - they turn away business.

Digital mastering was prolific in 2008 as it is now. Maybe more now - labels rarely let master tapes out anymore.

In 2008, Acoustic Sounds, Music Direct, Elusive Disc and all the other major vinyl vendors used very secure shipping packages. Only Amazon did not. VMP did not exist.

You will note, upon investigation, that the cost of manufacturing really hasn't gone up all that significantly since 2008. But the prices have. Why? If it costs rather pennies more to produce to that better quality you seem to experience. So why the price jumps, which are massive?

It is well known. Returns. This is a simple economic reality.

Crossley players. Bent corners. 15 year old stylus, too cheap to replace. Misalignment. Didn't like the music. Though it was the super duper with xxx-yyy in the deadwax but it isn't. Not mastered well. Paper inner sleeve has a split. Think I'll go through 3 or 4 copies to get the best.

If you go to a restaurant and order chicken, and send it back because you really don't like chicken, that should be on you. If you are just experimenting at a restaurant and there is nothing wrong with the meal, but the experiment didn't work out, fuck you. If you are one of the deplorables who make a habit of returning means in the hopes of getting a freebie, you should get put out on your ass. If you are just that fussy, loud, constant complaining customer who won't be satisfied no matter what, the restaurant is better off without you as a customer.

Reality is, it was perceived to be better in 2008 because we were a small, dedicated niche who all had decent turntables, knew how to set them up, and there was little gimmicky stuff like colored vinyl and variants, we bought from real stores or online big boxes who packed bullet-proof and would ship with the records outside the sleeves to prevent seam splits, and there weren't as many players in the market.

And I am actually happy living in the now, and don't long for 2008 at all. Thanks for checking in on that.

By the way, the most vociferous defect complainers do NOT speak with their wallets. They keep on buying those groovy, cool, exclusive splatter colored vinyls and admiring their Discogs values. Back in 2008, we did not give two flying fucks about that. There was no Discogs. We just cared about the music and the sound.


As the majority of us here are not old enough to remember 2008 and have only read about it in lore, the history provided here from someone who was actually buying records then will be treasured. Yes, we all know what it was like.

You are literally blaming the reason your records cost more on returns. I'm going to just go out on a limb that you have zero data to verify that so many people have sent back records that it has skyrocketed costs, and not just a decade of inflationary prices and expanded growth.

I think the real issue here is you look down on people buying records now, feel they are spoiled for not wanting to live with damaged merchandise, and are projecting this into an argument that records are expensive because everyone has returned too many of them.
 
As the majority of us here are not old enough to remember 2008 and have only read about it in lore, the history provided here from someone who was actually buying records then will be treasured. Yes, we all know what it was like.

You are literally blaming the reason your records cost more on returns. I'm going to just go out on a limb that you have zero data to verify that so many people have sent back records that it has skyrocketed costs, and not just a decade of inflationary prices and expanded growth.

I think the real issue here is you look down on people buying records now, feel they are spoiled for not wanting to live with damaged merchandise, and are projecting this into an argument that records are expensive because everyone has returned too many of them.
This has now descended, and it's boring. Hoffman forum is best for getting personal.
 
Yeah this. I can only think of one Gz album outside of all the vmp stuff that I've really had issues with. In my experience they're usually pretty decent when they're not working with vmp.
its almost like they are forced to throw out a ton of automatically made records for a community that's like 20,000 people in a month or so (how much time DOES VMP give Gz for it.. i feel like its maybe a month or two because i know that porter robinson was delayed until a month or so after release.. but it sounded fantastic except for some static on side D.. otherwise fantastic and made the already amazing album even better)
 
This is my opinion from a lot of different factors, but I believe the rising quality level and pricing of the late 2000's is the reason that the vinyl resurgence continued, and didn't die out on the vine earlier. And GZ isn't anywhere close to the level of the infamous Rainbo and United.
to be fair with the vitriol given to Gz on this forum it can seem like they are the 2nd coming of rainbo...

i was mostly arguing about your line basically saying "the market will decide" when that almost never works besides like.. new coke and when it spikes a drama that trends on twitter (which no VMP does not do because a lot of the more "standard" fans using a crosley or LP60 don't care)
 
to be fair with the vitriol given to Gz on this forum it can seem like they are the 2nd coming of rainbo...

i was mostly arguing about your line basically saying "the market will decide" when that almost never works besides like.. new coke and when it spikes a drama that trends on twitter (which no VMP does not do because a lot of the more "standard" fans using a crosley or LP60 don't care)
You know there's a big conspiracy theory that New Coke was a planned disaster, to distract people as Coke shifted from cane sugar to corn syrup when they introduced Coca Cola Classic with the huge rollout. That doesn't have anything to do with this but is a cool story
 
GZ are one of the oldest, and without question the largest vinyl pressing company in the world. Aside from the well known Czech GZ, many will be surprised that they own many plants elsewhere around the world, including several in Canada and the United States.

It is my experience that no one running a business wants to do a poor job or produce shitty products. I'm sure that the people at these companies making a living don't like to believe they do a shit job.

It is also my experience, though, that manufacturers produce to their capability, which will vary. Some can attract capital to upgrade equipment and expand, some cannot. In many cases, the manufacturer is limited by the price point their customers expect.

I would add, probably to your previous comment, but at least in the 90s, I think GZ pressed some quality sounding records. my guess is the issues they are having now are due to training new staff in such a large sale organisation.

Weirdly, they also used to do an awful lot of hip hop reissues (really bootlegs) that used the same stampers as the official pressings. I'm guessing one of the press operators was a hip hop fan and re pressed titles he wanted at the weekend :)
 
My two cents is there are gray areas when it comes to returns. For me, if I’m buying from a local, it was packed well and there’s a tiny seam split, I keep it. Or if the inner sleeve has a seam split—doesn’t bother me much. If there’s a small warp that DNAP, I don’t mind (unless we’re talking a one step or something that was real expensive). I’ve seen more and more places that are willing to unseal records for you and ship behind the sleeve. Even MoFi does this now if you put it in the notes.

If you ship me a record in a pizza box with no padding and it arrives damaged, I want a refund.

I do agree with some of what @RHANDMJ is saying but not all. There definitely are cases of people buying a record, not liking the music and returning it. I know someone who bought one of the AS titles, listened to it and didn’t like the hard-panning and returned it. Or returning a record because the paper inner has a small seam split. As with most things, there are people who abuse the returns system. It’s why VMP changed their return policies. It used to be no questions asked and they’d ship you a new record if there was an issue at all including corner sleeve dings. Then people started subsidizing their subscription costs by claiming there was an issue and selling their new 2nd copy for their subscription cost. And the cheap record players do contribute to some issues other people don’t have. I think it was Demon Days that made some peoples’ cheap record players skip because of the bass but lots of people thought it was a pressing issue.

Amazon has the purchasing power that when something gets returned to them, the label/distributor pays for the damaged goods. It is part of why wholesale distributors raised their prices. Local shops end up eating some of that cost too and lose some of their markup to try to keep competitive with Amazon even though their wholesale price has gone up. I think Plaidroom said they just have to eat the entire cost of returns with seam splits because it’s not worth the headache of trying to return them.

If you want to vote with your wallet, just stop buying records from Amazon—especially if you find yourself getting damaged records constantly. Don’t let the lax return policy be the reason why you buy from them. Buy from shops that package well (AS, MD, Plaidroom, Comeback vinyl, etc).

Don’t know if QC will change anytime soon. You’ve probably seen how people dismiss issues on the VMP subreddit. But hopefully people keep supporting the pressing plants and stores that put out good products and get records to you safely.
 
Now the VMP stans are making memes to bash other users.....noah get the boat!

kjqyh1kz2nq71.jpg
 
That's not really offensive to any VMP users. But it is highly offensive to comedy. It's just not funny. Whoever made that can do better. They need to do better.
It's just the fact that users are now making memes that actively try to make fun of other users.....I cannot for the life of me wrap my head around why someone would so subservient to a company like vmp, while verbally attacking anyone who says other wise.


If theres a silver lining its that people are ragging on this guy in the comments.
 
The superfluous "on" in the final block of text really cinches it. That's some solid unintentional comedy right there.
Yup I noticed that. Generally, I hold that correcting someone's grammar or spelling on the internet is scummy. But if you're gonna take the time to make a graphic to flame others then you should probably proofread your shit.
 
the unfortunate Hoffman
:ROFLMAO:

See you at Stereo Central.

If I'm paying £100+ for a high-end release (UHQR springs to mind) then I don't think it's reasonable to expect anything less than what is advertised.
Damn right I sent my defective Kind of Blue back for a replacement and they sent me one (after I provided proof of its destruction).
 
Now the VMP stans are making memes to bash other users.....noah get the boat!

kjqyh1kz2nq71.jpg

  1. I don't like a subjective musical choice
  2. I am going to go on this board dedicated to discussion to discuss why I don't like this musical choice
  3. I am not going to pay someone money to send me something I don't like or an alternative
  4. I am going to respond to the prompts that are provided to me in the unsubscribe survey
Totally irrational ofc
 
  1. I don't like a subjective musical choice
  2. I am going to go on this board dedicated to discussion to discuss why I don't like this musical choice
  3. I am not going to pay someone money to send me something I don't like or an alternative
  4. I am going to respond to the prompts that are provided to me in the unsubscribe survey
Totally irrational ofc
This is the exact mindset a weirdly large portion of their base has. They'll go on threads and call people asking for replacements "complainers" and "flippers". It's so stupid.
 
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