Vinyl Me Please (store, exclusives, swaps, etc)

[MikeH]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet is the store credit should effectively allow you to swap for exclusives that have been announced but not yet pressed. Eg as an international I should be able to swap my main track for $36 in store credit then buy when the pawn.

Yes this is the one benefit. Forget if I mentioned this here or reddit, but for international members then you could use your monthly sub towards the AP pressings as well. But also...why not just buy them if you want them? The money amount out of your pocket is the same...unless you don’t want any monthly albums.

 

[Hunna]

Yes this is the one benefit. Forget if I mentioned this here or reddit, but for international members then you could use your monthly sub towards the AP pressings as well. But also...why not just buy them if you want them? The money amount out of your pocket is the same...unless you don’t want any monthly albums.

I think the benefit for international members is the $36 is the price you have to pay to access the $23 side subs and also the exclusives (although lately it seems like they’ve also been available to non members

 

[heartswells]

This new swapping/credit thing will most definitely decrease the amount of $$ I spend at VMP. I was never going to pay $34 for Perfume Genius. But I was willing to way $23. I see myself basically cancelling all but maybe one sub every month.

If a record is priced too high and doesn't look to be selling well it'll likely end up in swaps available for you for $23, the customer base will decide whether or not a store exclusive is worth it or not.

 

[MikeH]

If a record is priced too high and doesn't look to be selling well it'll likely end up in swaps available for you for $23, the customer base will decide whether or not a store exclusive is worth it or not.

I was reading this whole thing as swaps will be limited to previous ROTM and less exclusives. More and more exclusives are long preorders now and those won’t be in swaps. I don’t believe any of the store exclusives announced in the past month will be available for swaps because they don’t come out until August...

 

[MikeH]

I think the benefit for international members is the $36 is the price you have to pay to access the $23 side subs and also the exclusives (although lately it seems like they’ve also been available to non members

That’s what I mean...exclusives are available to non members. They are limiting the swaps because most exclusives are preorders and those are never allowed to be swapped. If you have been a member for awhile, then you might not have many options for swapping.

VMP is still worth it for international members because even though it’s expensive, buying records from the US, where most things are sold now, is even more expensive elsewhere with shipping. For US customers, the reasons for being a member continue to dwindle.

 

[heartswells]

I was reading this whole thing as swaps will be limited to previous ROTM and less exclusives. More and more exclusives are long preorders now and those won’t be in swaps. I don’t believe any of the store exclusives announced in the past month will be available for swaps because they don’t come out until August...

As you said though, it's always been the case that you can't swap for preorders. If the variety of swaps is so low because preorders keep selling out then that means the customers are using their own funds to purchase them - so isn't it a good thing that VMP are allowing you to exchange what you would have paid for a ROTM/swap for credit that you can use towards these preorders if there is absolutely nothing you want?

 

[dhodo]

As you said though, it's always been the case that you can't swap for preorders. If the variety of swaps is so low because preorders keep selling out then that means the customers are using their own funds to purchase them - so isn't it a good thing that VMP are allowing you to exchange what you would have paid for a ROTM/swap for credit that you can use towards these preorders if there is absolutely nothing you want?

It's not just pre-orders, though. Lots of available titles aren't listed in swaps, like Shabaka last month, and required us to ask to swap off menu, which doesn't sound like they want to do anymore. We'll see though.

If I get to a point where I think there will be nothing I want during my subscription window, I will cancel. None of their exclusives, with their current levels of markup are worth it to me unless they are true exclusives, like When The Pawn...

 

[MikeH]

As you said though, it's always been the case that you can't swap for preorders. If the variety of swaps is so low because preorders keep selling out then that means the customers are using their own funds to purchase them - so isn't it a good thing that VMP are allowing you to exchange what you would have paid for a ROTM/swap for credit that you can use towards these preorders if there is absolutely nothing you want?

Sorry I wasn’t clear enough though...with plant delays, a very very large percentage of store exclusives are preorders now though, more than in the past. So you’re even more limited to just previous ROTM now in swaps. I also thought I read that manual swaps will not be allowed anymore but could be wrong about that. If that’s the case, you’re losing the entire benefit of the $23 swap.

Yes, if you don’t like any current ROTM, then being able to swap for credit on one track is a benefit. But that credit won’t even be able to pay for 1 record in most cases, so you’re coming out behind. The valuation of your membership has declined. You used to be able to swap your ROTM or an add-on for anything in the store that was a VMP product.So I could theoretically get the $40 Shabaka and the Ancestors album for $27 or $23 if it was a swap. Now you can’t.

 

[heartswells]

It's not just pre-orders, though. Lots of available titles aren't listed in swaps, like Shabaka last month, and required us to ask to swap off menu, which doesn't sound like they want to do anymore. We'll see though.

If I get to a point where I think there will be nothing I want during my subscription window, I will cancel. None of their exclusives, with their current levels of markup are worth it to me unless they are true exclusives, like When The Pawn...

I can totally understand why they no longer want to allow swaps that aren't on the menu, if it's not available as a swaption then it's clear they didn't have intention to make it available - they back down when sent an email to try and make good customer service for the few who feel it isn't good enough.

I have no idea of numbers, however with a member base of 30k+ I imagine only a small percentage of that even know this is a way of getting records that aren't readily available as a swaption. By getting rid of this and allowing everyone to claim credits instead it is a much more accessible and fairer method in my opinion.

Yes, the vocal minority who know the ins and outs of this service won't be able to get those rare sold out records for $23 anymore, but imagine how the 90%+ feel who aren't as clued up about it, visit the site a day after reveal to find they don't like any of the ROTMs and all the good swaptions sold out, because I've been in that boat and that's what made me give up my subscription in the past.

This is a huge positive change for the majority of VMP members (if it works as intended).

 

[wmeugene]

The way I'm reading this is that there are two groups of people who benefit:

1) International subscribers who can exchange a month for $30 plus dollars and get a record of their choice instead of an ROTM

2) Those locked into a longer term subscription who would rather have credit to put towards an exclusive rather than being forced into a ROTM.

Otherwise, the change is not ideal since it is clear from the language that the amount of exclusives in swaps will decrease and it seems as if manual swaps will no longer be a thing. I think some of this was born out of necessity with COVID-19 related delays, but this also helps with an infusion of cash now since swapping for credit is sort of like an interest-free micro loan.

 

[dhodo]

I can totally understand why they no longer want to allow swaps that aren't on the menu, if it's not available as a swaption then it's clear they didn't have intention to make it available - they back down when sent an email to try and make good customer service for the few who feel it isn't good enough.

I have no idea of numbers, however with a member base of 30k+ I imagine only a small percentage of that even know this is a way of getting records that aren't readily available as a swaption. By getting rid of this and allowing everyone to claim credits instead it is a much more accessible and fairer method in my opinion.

Yes, the vocal minority who know the ins and outs of this service won't be able to get those rare sold out records for $23 anymore, but imagine how the 90%+ feel who aren't as clued up about it, visit the site a day after reveal to find they don't like any of the ROTMs and all the good swaptions sold out, because I've been in that boat and that's what made me give up my subscription in the past.

This is a huge positive change for the majority of VMP members (if it works as intended).

I guess we have very different perspectives. Their albums that they have marked up through the roof, for no reason that I can imagine, other than to recoup "free" international shipping, should all be available as swaps, in my opinion. I think "fair" would be to let you swap for any 1 or 2xLP in the store. That would be a much more fair way to stop off menu swapping and would actually be a positive change.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think their store credit is worth less than my real money. That isn't a positive change to me. For international members, it seems a lot more palatable.

Also, based on recent events, I strongly doubt that the credit will be useable for renewing subscriptions, since they have two different buckets of credit now. Has that been confirmed? Being able to defer for renewing your subscription would be by far the best use of the credit value wise.

 

[heartswells]

Sorry I wasn’t clear enough though...with plant delays, a very very large percentage of store exclusives are preorders now though, more than in the past. So you’re even more limited to just previous ROTM now in swaps. I also thought I read that manual swaps will not be allowed anymore but could be wrong about that. If that’s the case, you’re losing the entire benefit of the $23 swap.

Yes, if you don’t like any current ROTM, then being able to swap for credit on one track is a benefit. But that credit won’t even be able to pay for 1 record in most cases, so you’re coming out behind. The valuation of your membership has declined. You used to be able to swap your ROTM or an add-on for anything in the store that was a VMP product.So I could theoretically get the $40 Shabaka and the Ancestors album for $27 or $23 if it was a swap. Now you can’t.

I agree that the valuation will have declined for members who don't use their own money to purchase store exclusives, however if you're a member who purchases exclusives then you're not losing out - you're simply forfeiting the option to get a "better deal" (e.g. a ROTM and an exclusive that may cost above what you're receive back in credit) as you're transferring what you would have paid as membership towards to offset what you would have paid for the exclusive/your next membership instalment... and again this is all optional, you don't have to do this unless you've exhausted all available ROTMs/swaps.

If an exclusive is $35 one of two things will happen:
a) it will sell well, the customers have decided they will spend $35 of their own money ($35 actual money, not this "devalued VMP money"), it won't go to swaps.
b) it won't sell well, the customers have decided it is not worth $35 of their own money, this will likely go to swaps to allow customers to now spend their $23 membership cost on a record that was originally priced at $35.

Why would/should VMP put records with a higher asking price in as a swaption when it would likely sell without that step?

 

[heartswells]

Also I don't really see the big deal of "loaning" VMP money, this is all optional, this credit system is a last resort method. Maybe you feel strongly about it enough to go ahead with grabbing a ROTM or swaption you don't care about to avoid "loaning", but personally I'd rather keep the $23+ credit for use on a future title/subscription I'd actually want than do that.

Also, based on recent events, I strongly doubt that the credit will be useable for renewing subscriptions, since they have two different buckets of credit now. Has that been confirmed? Being able to defer for renewing you subscription would be by far the best use of the credit value wise.

Yup, they mention in the FAQs that you can switch the store credit to account credit once they've been processed.

What kind of credits will be issued (store or membership)?
Credits will be issued in the form of Store Credits. We are able to convert these credits to membership credits after they've been uploaded.

So essentially, if you had a 3 month account and skipped all 3 months you'd pay $0 for your next 3 months, it's basically a lifetime crate subscription.

 

[dhodo]

I agree that the valuation will have declined for members who don't use their own money to purchase store exclusives, however if you're a member who purchases exclusives then you're not losing out - you're simply forfeiting the option to get a "better deal" (e.g. a ROTM and an exclusive that may cost above what you're receive back in credit) as you're transferring what you would have paid as membership towards to offset what you would have paid for the exclusive/your next membership instalment... and again this is all optional, you don't have to do this unless you've exhausted all available ROTMs/swaps.

If an exclusive is $35 one of two things will happen:
a) it will sell well, the customers have decided they will spend $35 of their own money ($35 actual money, not this "devalued VMP money"), it won't go to swaps.
b) it won't sell well, the customers have decided it is not worth $35 of their own money, this will likely go to swaps to allow customers to now spend their $23 membership cost on a record that was originally priced at $35.

Why would/should VMP put records with a higher asking price in as a swaption when it would likely sell without that step?

I think you are overestimating the percentage of subscribers who buy their overpriced exclusives when you say it is a "huge positive change for the majority of members." Their subscriber base is like 20-30k last I heard and their exclusive pressing sizes are regularly under 1k.

They don't have to give me them as swaps if they can get enough suckers to pay almost double the cost of the standard release for a color and a manufactured exclusivity number scribbled on it. But, nothing about stopping that is positive to me. Again, for international, they sometimes make a lot more sense, but I really can't see it from a positive side for people stateside, unless you are someone who is really into VMP exclusives over any other, cheaper variants, which is not a majority of subscribers.

 

[dhodo]

Yup, they mention in the FAQs that you can switch the store credit to account credit once they've been processed.

What kind of credits will be issued (store or membership)?
Credits will be issued in the form of Store Credits. We are able to convert these credits to membership credits after they've been uploaded.

So essentially, if you had a 3 month account and skipped all 3 months you'd pay $0 for your next 3 months, it's basically a lifetime crate subscription.

That's good. Hopefully they stay true to their word on that. That's the only positive change for me personally from this.

 

[MikeH]

I agree that the valuation will have declined for members who don't use their own money to purchase store exclusives, however if you're a member who purchases exclusives then you're not losing out - you're simply forfeiting the option to get a "better deal" (e.g. a ROTM and an exclusive that may cost above what you're receive back in credit) as you're transferring what you would have paid as membership towards to offset what you would have paid for the exclusive/your next membership instalment... and again this is all optional, you don't have to do this unless you've exhausted all available ROTMs/swaps.

If an exclusive is $35 one of two things will happen:
a) it will sell well, the customers have decided they will spend $35 of their own money ($35 actual money, not this "devalued VMP money"), it won't go to swaps.
b) it won't sell well, the customers have decided it is not worth $35 of their own money, this will likely go to swaps to allow customers to now spend their $23 membership cost on a record that was originally priced at $35.

Why would/should VMP put records with a higher asking price in as a swaption when it would likely sell without that step?

The more in-demand albums always sell out before swaps. So if it gets to swaps and members haven’t sold it out, then they have collectively said that it’s too expensive. Why would VMP include the Woodstock box set in swaps? Because they want to get inventory off the shelves. The longer a record sits on an inventory shelf, the less profit VMP makes on it. They do not have their own warehouse space. They are paying to rent it elsewhere. VMP’s CEO confirmed this in an interview recently. These are arbitrary numbers, but making $15 off of an album in swaps instead of $22 if they sell it at full price is worth it because they spend less on inventory space.

And as for people not knowing you can swap, I don’t think that’s true because if it was, their site wouldn’t have crashed when swaps were announced last month...

Think of it like their credits are a foreign currency. The exchange rate used to be 1 VMP GoodVibes buck = 1 record no matter what. You sign up for a 3 month subscription, you pay 3 goodvibes bucks and get 3 records no matter what, because you can swap for anything in stock. Then one day, VMP raises the prices of albums so that 1 VMP goodvibes buck can be exchanged for Anywhere between 0.8 records and 0.6 records now. How is that a benefit to customers? VMP raised the prices of their records but it didn’t matter to most of us because we could still get those albums in swaps. But now that we won’t be able to, the prices are crazy. Why do you think Shabaka has over half of its copies left in the store? Because it’s a $22 album on black vinyl that is being sold for $40 in VMP’s store. It still wasn’t in swaps last month even though it was already released.

IMO the fairest thing is as follows:
* have member and non-member pricing. Similar to what they have done with Fiona’s exclusives. Secretly Society does this for members too (10% off for members).

*have TRUE VMP exclusives. Members only. Never open up store exclusives to non-members.

*allow swaps for anything in stock.

*allow swap for credit if you don’t want any swaps or the ROTM and want to buy a preorder instead

This makes it fair to everyone, makes a membership worth it and gives people a lot of flexibility.

 

[heartswells]

I think you are overestimating the percentage of subscribers who buy their overpriced exclusives when you say it is a "huge positive change for the majority of members." Their subscriber base is like 20-30k last I heard and their exclusive pressing sizes are regularly under 1k.

They don't have to give me them as swaps if they can get enough suckers to pay almost double the cost of the standard release for a color and a manufactured exclusivity number scribbled on it. But, nothing about stopping that is positive to me. Again, for international, they sometimes make a lot more sense, but I really can't see it from a positive side for people stateside, unless you are someone who is really into VMP exclusives over any other, cheaper variants, which is not a majority of subscribers.

Yeah you're probably right that I'm overestimating the customer base who are interested in exclusives, but I reckon there's a bigger number of members who know about the store than about the swaps page or the hidden menu email service.

I just see this is a fairer way than either the repeated F5 pressing when waiting for rare swaps, or the open secret back alley dealings of "psst, ok sorry there's nothing available you're interested, we'll let you pick out anything in the store, but keep it on the low or everyone will do it". The fact it's pretty much an open secret that a lot of people are abusing is probably why we're seeing this change now.

 

[MikeH]

Also I don't really see the big deal of "loaning" VMP money, this is all optional, this credit system is a last resort method. Maybe you feel strongly about it enough to go ahead with grabbing a ROTM or swaption you don't care about to avoid "loaning", but personally I'd rather keep the $23+ credit for use on a future title/subscription I'd actually want than do that.

Because VMP is limiting their swaps to get you to give them this loan. Swap options were already really thin for a lot of people who have been members for awhile. If you’re stuck in a year long membership, you are hit the worst with this because your monthly payment is worth even less than it was before in terms of money:records ratio. Paying the yearly cost is now only worth it if you want to keep a ROTM every month. A $23 credit gets you nothing in the store.

We can agree to disagree though. I think you’re looking at it from the perspective of “well now I can opt out of ROTMs and use credit on anything including preorders” while I’m looking at it like “my membership no longer gets me 1 record if I don’t like the ROTM”.

 

[MikeH]

Yeah you're probably right that I'm overestimating the customer base who are interested in exclusives, but I reckon there's a bigger number of members who know about the store than about the swaps page or the hidden menu email service.

I just see this is a fairer way than either the repeated F5 pressing when waiting for rare swaps, or the open secret back alley dealings of "psst, ok sorry there's nothing available you're interested, we'll let you pick out anything in the store, but keep it on the low or everyone will do it". The fact it's pretty much an open secret that a lot of people are abusing is probably why we're seeing this change now.

VMP has over 9,300 members on its subreddit. Those people are all clued in on swaps. It’s no secret. VMP has openly promoted that you can swap. Pauly has told people to message CS for swaps that are available in the store but not listed in swaps.

I agree with you that swap exclusives was a failure but the solution to that is fix your damn website, not give customers less swaptions. They are too lazy and cheap to fix it, so because of that they are getting rid of one of the biggest perks of being a member.

 

[dhodo]

I just see this is a fairer way than either the repeated F5 pressing when waiting for rare swaps, or the open secret back alley dealings of "psst, ok sorry there's nothing available you're interested, we'll let you pick out anything in the store, but keep it on the low or everyone will do it". The fact it's pretty much an open secret that a lot of people are abusing is probably why we're seeing this change now.

I don't see how sending CS a message saying "could I swap to this other album that is in your store? I didn't see it in swaps." is abusing the system. The reason a lot of us started doing that is because it used to be strange to not see a record in swaps that was available in the store. They could say no if they don't want to. Construing an honest inquiry to a real person as abusing the system is a weird take.