Your Fave is Problematic

gaporter said:
Not a fave by any means, but this is still repugnant and I don't know where else to talk about it. Yeah, sure, seeing a slap on live television is "traumatizing" but making light of a tragedy where someone lost their life? No issues with that! And I love the wording here of not "being able to say" any of it like censorship of potentially offensive material is the problem and not the fact that it's an aggressively unfunny and insensitive joke about a very real issue (a disregard of safety on film sets). When I made my status post the other day, this is the kind of shit I was talking about. I know it's probably a small thing all things considered but this still bothers me and I feel like it's emblematic of a bigger issue with all of this. How someone could have the gall to go on moral tirades about how "violence is never the answer" only to turn around and be this blatantly cruel is pure hypocrisy and just fuels my suspicion that Hollywood only cares about this kind of shit when they actually have to see it happen themselves.
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Amy Schumer’s most relevant role is Chuck Schumer’s niece. That is why she was “discovered” and why she continues to get gigs. She has always come across as crass and unoriginal to me.
 
The joke sucks, she should be happy that they nixed it, and I don't think anyone has to like Amy Schumer even if I do. We can also have differing opinions on her reactions to it vs. Will Smith assaulting Chris Rock (I understand how someone who makes a living on stage telling jokes in front of people would feel different about what she does on a daily basis vs. the ability of someone to come on stage and assault that person...especially given she was hosting when it happened), that's all fine too. Reasonable folks can disagree on it, though I'd probably argue that Schumer has as much a reason as anyone not on stage in those surrounding minutes (Rock, Smith, the Summer of Soul team) to feel aggrieved by it all. I personally think the joke stealing allegations are severely overblown (this is not a Mencia deal by any means and the comedians who alleged this have largely backed off), but again, I understand that can be a particular soft spot for folks and how they appreciate their entertainers. I never really understood the vitriol Olivia Rodrigo got for the Paramore likeness either.

With that said, I feel like it's kind of effed up to ascribe the professional success of Amy Schumer to her father being a second cousin to a U.S. Senator. She went to college for theatre, had an off-off Broadway stint, spent several years in NY's comedy scene before going on Last Comic Standing and getting her break. That is not the pathway of someone who is having a road paved for them. She created, wrote for, and starred in a successful, long running Comedy Central show. She's been a successful standup comedian for nearly two decades, playing massive shows and sold out runs, and starred in several commercial films where she was generally pretty good in them. She was still the highest earning female comedian in the country pre-pandemic and is still selling out shows quickly now. Like...her humor is not super high brow (I'd say above Whitney Cummings and Nikki Glaser on the crass meter) but she's hugely successful largely on her merit.
 
waruv said:
The joke sucks, she should be happy that they nixed it, and I don't think anyone has to like Amy Schumer even if I do. We can also have differing opinions on her reactions to it vs. Will Smith assaulting Chris Rock (I understand how someone who makes a living on stage telling jokes in front of people would feel different about what she does on a daily basis vs. the ability of someone to come on stage and assault that person...especially given she was hosting when it happened), that's all fine too. Reasonable folks can disagree on it, though I'd probably argue that Schumer has as much a reason as anyone not on stage in those surrounding minutes (Rock, Smith, the Summer of Soul team) to feel aggrieved by it all. I personally think the joke stealing allegations are severely overblown (this is not a Mencia deal by any means and the comedians who alleged this have largely backed off), but again, I understand that can be a particular soft spot for folks and how they appreciate their entertainers. I never really understood the vitriol Olivia Rodrigo got for the Paramore likeness either.

With that said, I feel like it's kind of effed up to ascribe the professional success of Amy Schumer to her father being a second cousin to a U.S. Senator. She went to college for theatre, had an off-off Broadway stint, spent several years in NY's comedy scene before going on Last Comic Standing and getting her break. That is not the pathway of someone who is having a road paved for them. She created, wrote for, and starred in a successful, long running Comedy Central show. She's been a successful standup comedian for nearly two decades, playing massive shows and sold out runs, and starred in several commercial films where she was generally pretty good in them. She was still the highest earning female comedian in the country pre-pandemic and is still selling out shows quickly now. Like...her humor is not super high brow (I'd say above Whitney Cummings and Nikki Glaser on the crass meter) but she's hugely successful largely on her merit.
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I agree in a lot of ways, though I think (as often is the case with a lot of “hey I put in the work” bootstraps arguments) that while Schumer’s privilege may not have directly opened doors for her, and her talent shouldn’t be discounted, there’s still a lot of access to art, education, and resources as well as the economic cushion to toil in obscurity for however long it takes to hone an act and pay their dues.

I can’t speak specifically to Schumer’s experience, but often these days, when someone “worked their way to the top,” they have a safety net in place which prevents a lot of similarly talented people from chasing their dream.

It’s like the recent Kim Kardashian hullabaloo: while I have no doubts she’s working hard towards becoming a lawyer, and I don’t quite share the idea that she’s done absolutely nothing to get where she is, her assertion that the only difference is she’s willing to work, that’s downright false.

It’s something that breaks my heart these days; as the striation between upper and lower class increases, it’s more common for the rich to gain access to success in the arts. Talent still matters, but access/privilege is the difference maker.
 
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Bull Shannon said:
I agree in a lot of ways, though I think (as often is the case with a lot of “hey I put in the work” bootstraps arguments) that while Schumer’s privilege may not have directly opened doors for her, and her talent shouldn’t be discounted, there’s still a lot of access to art, education, and resources as well as the economic cushion to toil in obscurity for however long it takes to hone an act and pay their dues.
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This right here! I experienced it personally when trying to get into Audio engineering in NYC. And also se it with the kids I work with. Some get exposed to so much because of their family and the poor ones Beatles know a world outside of Roblox because their parents can’t afford to give those experiences to their child.
 
Bull Shannon said:
I agree in a lot of ways, though I think (as often is the case with a lot of “hey I put in the work” bootstraps arguments) that while Schumer’s privilege may not have directly opened doors for her, and her talent shouldn’t be discounted, there’s still a lot of access to art, education, and resources as well as the economic cushion to toil in obscurity for however long it takes to hone an act and pay their dues.

I can’t speak specifically to Schumer’s experience, but often these days, when someone “worked their way to the top,” they have a safety net in place which prevents a lot of similarly talented people from chasing their dream.

It’s like the recent Kim Kardashian hullabaloo: while I have no doubts she’s working hard towards becoming a lawyer, and I don’t quite share the idea that she’s done absolutely nothing to get where she is, her assertion that the only difference is she’s willing to work, that’s downright false.

It’s something that breaks my heart these days; as the striation between upper and lower class increases, it’s more common for the rich to gain access to success in the arts. Talent still matters, but access/privilege is the difference maker.
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So absolutely, there are levels of difficulty and privilege that vary for pretty much every human being.

I will just note for Schumer her father declared bankruptcy and his business went belly up when Amy was nine. Her formative years were spent in a divorced household and soon after the divorce her father was diagnosed with M.S. While she was trying to gain a foothold in her career she worked the usual jobs a lot of struggling artist types do (waitstaff, bartending). This isn’t a Kardashisn story and while I am thoroughly confident there are thousands of people trying to make it in NY who don’t have Schumer’s advantages, I don’t think Chuck Schumer was shaking down the owner of Gotham Comedy Club to get Schumer her slots either.

Might also be worth noting that Schumer may have found Smith’s action triggering because she is a victim of domestic abuse.
 
But there is a privilege that she has and this privilege is big enough to get her a meeting with Comedy Central execs. I am not negating the work she did, but how many people can get the sort of breaks she got without hanging around circles of people who are able to make careers happen? I am not saying she is the only one. And her personal tragedies are terrible, but so are a lot of people I know. I am truly sorry for her sadnesses.

ETA: I think this sort of stuff happens all the time, not just with Amy.
 
This is a big "cite your sources" thing for me. Comedy is a notoriously difficult environment for female comics and Amy Schumer, despite not being someone who would normally be a major success in the industry. Her early career pathway is very much like a slew of other successful Comedians. It took her three years to get a Live at Gotham mini special slot, which is in same realm as other comedians on their list (John Mulaney took two, Eric Andre took four, Myq Kaplan took three, etc.). The comedic ecosystem is so much about what you know, the grind you put in doing shows and being in front of as many people as you can, gradually growing a base of fans, and taking advantage of those opportunities. There is absolutely zero evidence I have seen that Schumer had any leg up over anyone else due to her famous cousin. Prior to getting her on Comedy Central show, she had a Comedy Central presents...and two well received roast appearances...and seven appearances on Reality Bites...and an appearance on John Oliver's show on Comedy Central. Like, the "privilege" of getting a meeting is also bolstered by her working for them successfully on numerous different other projects they had and having her general star rise

If Comedy Central gave her a show after a year in NY with no credits? Sure, I'd be inclined to agree. There's a workload history here in alignment with a ton of other comedians.

This isn't to say that she didn't know people in the industry (she had to by the nature of the beast) or that she had some privilege that other comedians didn't have (gender, age, look, approach, connections all matter for everyone and she had elements other comedians couldn't), but it rubs me the wrong way when the single most successful female stand up comedian (arguably, there's not many up there with her) in the country has her work handwaved and credit given to a white man who barely acknowledged her existence. Why even talk about anyone's successes if we're going to boil it down to someone else they may vaguely know?

Anyway, one more note on the Rock/Schumer/Smith comments that led up to this. Chris Rock and Amy Schumer are also friends - Chris directed her HBO special. So it was also Will Smith attacking her friend and colleague. That may skew this too.
 
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The current consensus on Twitter is that both Rock and Schumer put their woman-hating styles on display on the regular. With Rock, apparently his disdain for black women is well documented, particularly in his documentary. With Schumer, I guess it's showcased a bit in her most recent show, but it's been a recurring theme throughout her career. It's hard to be "one of the boys" and compete with men without putting down women to get a couple brownie points.

There's definitely a deeper philosophical issue at hand here about how society works, and it's obvious, so I won't try and dissect it as it's already beat to a pulp on the daily.
 
gaporter said:
Not a fave by any means, but this is still repugnant and I don't know where else to talk about it. Yeah, sure, seeing a slap on live television is "traumatizing" but making light of a tragedy where someone lost their life? No issues with that! And I love the wording here of not "being able to say" any of it like censorship of potentially offensive material is the problem and not the fact that it's an aggressively unfunny and insensitive joke about a very real issue (a disregard of safety on film sets). When I made my status post the other day, this is the kind of shit I was talking about. I know it's probably a small thing all things considered but this still bothers me and I feel like it's emblematic of a bigger issue with all of this. How someone could have the gall to go on moral tirades about how "violence is never the answer" only to turn around and be this blatantly cruel is pure hypocrisy and just fuels my suspicion that Hollywood only cares about this kind of shit when they actually have to see it happen themselves.
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I have to admit to not really keeping up with Amy Schumer's work but that's likely down to the fact that the little I have seen of her has put me off completely.

It's not the first time she used death as the punchline to her jokes either, during the Roast Of Charlie Sheen she addressed Steve-O and made a joke about Ryan Dunn's death (his best friend and Jackass colleague), essentially saying she wished it was him rather than Dunn. Steve-O looked broken and, speculating, its not hard to imagine that the thought crossed his mind during that time. The kicker, the joke was made less than 3 months after Dunn's passing.
 
Selaws said:
I have to admit to not really keeping up with Amy Schumer's work but that's likely down to the fact that the little I have seen of her has put me off completely.

It's not the first time she used death as the punchline to her jokes either, during the Roast Of Charlie Sheen she addressed Steve-O and made a joke about Ryan Dunn's death (his best friend and Jackass colleague), essentially saying she wished it was him rather than Dunn. Steve-O looked broken and, speculating, its not hard to imagine that the thought crossed his mind during that time. The kicker, the joke was made less than 3 months after Dunn's passing.
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Yeah that joke was way too far across the line.

The problem is my wife loves her and I have to bite my tongue when it comes to criticizing her.
 
gaporter said:
Not for nothing, but Schumer has also openly admitted to having sex with a man while he was all but passed out drunk without his consent. So make of that what you will.
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additionally she took a cab driver's hand and placed it, well... look it up if you care.

I think it was smart to cut that joke, it would have received laughs and groans from the crowd, but I think that was the right call. though I'm kind of surprised she'd make a shooting joke as I know she had a difficult time dealing with the shooting that occurred at her movie.

that said, I have no problem with the joke. I figure that I'm in the minority here, but I think it's fine for comedy to go to dark, taboo, unsettling places. I also understand why a lot of people feel differently than I do.

I thought Amy was fantastic when she first started buzzing. not only did I think she was extremely funny on stage but I thought she was even better on radio shows and podcasts. she did a lot for comics as well, she got a strong push from the established comedians earlier on and she in turn pushed comics into the spotlight when she had pull in the industry, which is honestly a very classy move. she also put a ton of comics in her show, again good on her. I don't think her success really had anything to do with Chuck Schumer, if anything I would imagine it was better for him to not connect himself to her, especially back when she was saying some wild and crazy shit.

then, I don't know...I just lost interest. her specials weren't making me laugh. the joke stealing accusations for both her specials and TV show started rolling in, and she kind of very quickly fell off my comedy radar. I'd love to really laugh watching her comedy going forward, but not sure that's going to happen. that said, I thought she did pretty good at the Oscars.
 
kind of tagging the Amy Schumer talk from the other day... feel how you want to feel about Louis CK, but I feel like with the sexual misconduct in her past she maybe shouldn't be throwing stones.

maybe I'm missing/ignoring the details and/or nuance between what each did, and while I don't wish for Amy to get cancelled, on a higher level her calling out his win seems hypocritical to me.

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I am not defending Schumer's conduct on the sexual conduct aspect of her event. I do think there is a fairy large difference between the Schumer experience and the C.K. Experience to where she can not feel good about him winning a Grammy without being a major hypocrite

The Schumer Experience was a booty call initiated by "Matt" where, by the account she presented, he initiated and performed all of the actions. I do think that the right thing to do is stop it, but there is the initiation on the man's part of seemingly every action during this entire encounter, the age gap dynamic (5 year gap as a freshman in college on Schumer's part). I'd encourage you or anyone who wants to know more to read her account of it on which many of the Reddit takes are purportedly based on. I would probably say the right thing to do was to leave the room when it appears he is inebriated, but it doesn't take a lot of imagination to understand how anyone could get in her spot and either not feel comfortable or not know how to react to it. Matt may feel differently of course, I haven't seen his account on this.

On the other hand, Louis C.K., as a well respected and connected comedian, disrobed and showed his genitals, and masturbated in front of several unwilling women - blocking the door at least once to prevent them from leaving the situation - at the very minimum five over the span of a decade. There was also an admitted and noted power dynamic differential between Louis C.K., who was and is big enough to help or hinder someone's career. Louis C.K. also acknowledges that. There are enough unsavory nuggets in the Vox Story even beyond those five women that suggests there is a lot more. I don't need to recount to people here, but again, you are welcome to read those if you are so inclined. He took some time off.

Personally, I'd have more questions who feels good that Louis C.K. is winning Grammys again for his comedy than someone who didn't.

I feel like Schumer's situation in the mechanics of it all is probably closer to Aziz Ansari but without the power dynamic issue. Louis is something far, far worse in any sane reading. With that said, highly sensitive topic and every individual will have their own feelings on what is or isn't bad or okay - certainly not going to get pushback on me if you want to put them all in the same boat, I just personally see a difference.
 
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waruv said:
I am not defending Schumer's conduct on the sexual conduct aspect of her event. I do think there is a fairy large difference between the Schumer experience and the C.K. Experience to where she can not feel good about him winning a Grammy.

The Schumer Experience was a booty call initiated by "Matt" where, by the account she presented, he initiated and performed all of the actions. I do think that the right thing to do is stop it, but there is the initiation on the man's part of seemingly every action during this entire encounter, the age gap dynamic (5 year gap as a freshman in college on Schumer's part). I'd encourage you or anyone who wants to know more to read her account of it on which many of the Reddit takes are purportedly based on. I would probably say the right thing to do was to leave the room when it appears he is inebriated, but it doesn't take a lot of imagination to understand how anyone could get in her spot and either not feel comfortable or not know how to react to it. Matt may feel differently of course, I haven't seen his account.

On the other hand, Louis C.K., as a well respected and connected comedian, disrobed and showed his genitals, and masturbated in front of several unwilling women - blocking the door at least once to prevent them from leaving the situation - at the very minimum five over the span of a decade. There was also an admitted and noted power dynamic differential between Louis C.K., who was and is big enough to help or hinder someone's career. Louis C.K. also acknowledges that. There are enough unsavory nuggets in the Vox Story I don't need to recount to people here, but again, you are welcome to read those.

Personally, I'd have more questions who feels good that Louis C.K. is winning Grammys after his relative lack of remorse than someone who didn't.

I feel like Schumer's situation in the mechanics of it all is probably closer to Aziz Ansari but without the power dynamic issue. Louis is something far, far worse in any sane reading.
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that's not the only instance of Amy's sexual misconduct though. additionally I understand there are details in regards to Louis' situation which apparently don't line up with the common story going around, but I'm not trying to get into the territory of defending Louis.

I guess what I'm getting at, for me, is sometimes someone isn't in the best position to be critical of another person's past.
 
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