Equipment Recommendations - The Home For New System and Upgrade Advice

MikeyPD said:
Shoutout to @Ed Selley! Your article on the VMP site was invaluable in my attempt to explain to my wife what a phono stage does and how important it is.

My feeble attempt to put it in my own words wasn’t as convincing. 😂
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Wow that was a great read. Any other articles that explain the purpose and functionality of different equipment? I’m still learning all the ‘why this is important’ aspects.
 
Alright, I have a question that’s been bugging me y’all. I bought the Klipsch R-51PMs a couple months ago and have been very pleased with their performance thus far, seem to be the right speaker for a small LA apartment but there’s one thing I’m trying to understand. The r-51pms come with an onboard phono pre-amp. Can you use amps (say a tube amp) with speakers that have a a pre-amp built in? If the pre-amp in the speakers sucks are you able to (technically speaking) bypass it and hook them up to a higher quality phono stage? I’ve been collecting records for a year and a half now and these are the first real speakers I’ve ever owned so I’m sorry if this is a rookie question lol.

P.s. I tried using the pre-amp built into my LP60 with my speakers in the hopes that it’d have a higher volume ceiling (I think, I may have done it wrong 😂) and I almost blew up my speakers.

On second glance, I’m honestly not sure what’s going on over here. I have my LP60 hooked up to my R-51pms through RCA cables and both the speakers and table have their switches set to “PHONO”. So am I using both of their pre-amps at the same time, am I using none at all, do I have everything fucked up? Perhaps, I’m hoping you can tell me! Thanks y’all.
 
ghostdorado said:
Alright, I have a question that’s been bugging me y’all. I bought the Klipsch R-51PMs a couple months ago and have been very pleased with their performance thus far, seem to be the right speaker for a small LA apartment but there’s one thing I’m trying to understand. The r-51pms come with an onboard phono pre-amp. Can you use amps (say a tube amp) with speakers that have a a pre-amp built in? If the pre-amp in the speakers sucks are you able to (technically speaking) bypass it and hook them up to a higher quality phono stage? I’ve been collecting records for a year and a half now and these are the first real speakers I’ve ever owned so I’m sorry if this is a rookie question lol.

P.s. I tried using the pre-amp built into my LP60 with my speakers in the hopes that it’d have a higher volume ceiling (I think, I may have done it wrong 😂) and I almost blew up my speakers.

On second glance, I’m honestly not sure what’s going on over here. I have my LP60 hooked up to my R-51pms through RCA cables and both the speakers and table have their switches set to “PHONO”. So am I using both of their pre-amps at the same time, am I using none at all, do I have everything fucked up? Perhaps, I’m hoping you can tell me! Thanks y’all.
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If it had a Phono/Line switch on the input or separate phono and line in inputs then yes you can use an outboard phono stage. You can’t use an amplifier with powered speakers, they amplify themselves.

You would know if you were doubling up on the phono stages, it’d sound horrific!
 
ghostdorado said:
Alright, I have a question that’s been bugging me y’all. I bought the Klipsch R-51PMs a couple months ago and have been very pleased with their performance thus far, seem to be the right speaker for a small LA apartment but there’s one thing I’m trying to understand. The r-51pms come with an onboard phono pre-amp. Can you use amps (say a tube amp) with speakers that have a a pre-amp built in? If the pre-amp in the speakers sucks are you able to (technically speaking) bypass it and hook them up to a higher quality phono stage? I’ve been collecting records for a year and a half now and these are the first real speakers I’ve ever owned so I’m sorry if this is a rookie question lol.

P.s. I tried using the pre-amp built into my LP60 with my speakers in the hopes that it’d have a higher volume ceiling (I think, I may have done it wrong 😂) and I almost blew up my speakers.

On second glance, I’m honestly not sure what’s going on over here. I have my LP60 hooked up to my R-51pms through RCA cables and both the speakers and table have their switches set to “PHONO”. So am I using both of their pre-amps at the same time, am I using none at all, do I have everything fucked up? Perhaps, I’m hoping you can tell me! Thanks y’all.
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To quickly answer your question, yes you could add an external phono-preamp (aka phonostage) to your R-15PM.

To help sort out your confusion, you need a little deeper understanding of the audio chain. In a turntable set you you will always need the following components:
Cartridge (aka needle portion) > Turntable > Phonostage > Amp > Speaker

This gets confusing to many new people because many entry level pieces have multiple parts in one box/piece. So let's break down your system.

In your LP60, you have the cartridge, turntable and phonostage all in one piece.
In your R-15PM you have a second phonostage, amp and speaker all in one box.

If you were to set your turntable to "line" and your speakers input to "phono" you'd have both phonostaged turned on... and that is going to sound bad.

If you have your TT set to "phono" and your speakers set to "line", then neither unit has the phonostage turned on, and this will sound way to quiet.

You can see which units phonostage you like better. Try them both.

Testing the TT phonostage: set TT to line, and speakers to line.

Testing the speakers phonostage: set TT to phono and speakers to phono.

To use an external phonostage: set TT to line, plug into phonostage inputs, set speakers to line, plug phonostage outputs into the speaker.

Last bit, I'd upgraded your TT before adding a preamp. Even if it's just a Uturn or something similar. In my opinion, the LP60 will remain the weakest link in your system, despite any additional gear changes.
 
displayname said:
To quickly answer your question, yes you could add an external phono-preamp (aka phonostage) to your R-15PM.

To help sort out your confusion, you need a little deeper understanding of the audio chain. In a turntable set you you will always need the following components:
Cartridge (aka needle portion) > Turntable > Phonostage > Amp > Speaker

This gets confusing to many new people because many entry level pieces have multiple parts in one box/piece. So let's break down your system.

In your LP60, you have the cartridge, turntable and phonostage all in one piece.
In your R-15PM you have a second phonostage, amp and speaker all in one box.

If you were to set your turntable to "line" and your speakers input to "phono" you'd have both phonostaged turned on... and that is going to sound bad.

If you have your TT set to "phono" and your speakers set to "line", then neither unit has the phonostage turned on, and this will sound way to quiet.

You can see which units phonostage you like better. Try them both.

Testing the TT phonostage: set TT to line, and speakers to line.

Testing the speakers phonostage: set TT to phono and speakers to phono.

To use an external phonostage: set TT to line, plug into phonostage inputs, set speakers to line, plug phonostage outputs into the speaker.

Last bit, I'd upgraded your TT before adding a preamp. Even if it's just a Uturn or something similar. In my opinion, the LP60 will remain the weakest link in your system, despite any additional gear changes.
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Yeah I agree with this 100%. An external phono stage can make a huge difference but it won’t particularly with an LP60. I’d be saving for a better turntable (one of the new fluance models isn’t a bad point to aim for first). That would give you a noticeable improvement and would also give you the scope to then start saving again for an outboard phono stage which would give the better table a proper improvement that it couldn’t give the LP60.
 
Setup question since we are talking upgrades...I’m fairly happy with my setup currently but wondering what is worth upgrading next? I have a vinyl nirvana upgraded Thorens TD-150 with Rega Moth tonearm and an Ortofon Bronze cart and Music Hall speedbox. That’s running through my Rotel RA-1570 amp phone stage and out to KEF R300 speakers with Zu Audio Libtec cables. Should I get a separate phono stage like the Vincent Pho-8?
 
MikeH said:
Setup question since we are talking upgrades...I’m fairly happy with my setup currently but wondering what is worth upgrading next? I have a vinyl nirvana upgraded Thorens TD-150 with Rega Moth tonearm and an Ortofon Bronze cart and Music Hall speedbox. That’s running through my Rotel RA-1570 amp phone stage and out to KEF R300 speakers with Zu Audio Libtec cables. Should I get a separate phono stage like the Vincent Pho-8?
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What do you not like about the sound you have now?
 
HiFi Guy said:
What do you not like about the sound you have now?
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I'm mostly happy with it, but find it to be lacking warmth sometimes which is maybe on account of the Bronze? I also tend not to know what my setup is missing, then I upgrade one element and notice a pretty large difference. Recently went from regular speaker wire to the Libtecs via recommendations from here and a cheap ebay buy and noticed a lot more detail.

I was mostly wondering if a new phono stage instead of using the built-in one from my Rotel would be a logical next step? Or if I'm mostly happy with the sound right now, maybe no upgrades are in order...
 
MikeH said:
I'm mostly happy with it, but find it to be lacking warmth sometimes which is maybe on account of the Bronze? I also tend not to know what my setup is missing, then I upgrade one element and notice a pretty large difference. Recently went from regular speaker wire to the Libtecs via recommendations from here and a cheap ebay buy and noticed a lot more detail.

I was mostly wondering if a new phono stage instead of using the built-in one from my Rotel would be a logical next step? Or if I'm mostly happy with the sound right now, maybe no upgrades are in order...
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Lack of warmth is a great description of the Bronze. I had one and hated it. Others like it though, so YMMV.

If you want something warmer, Grado fits the bill. Also the new VM95 series from A/T is warmer than most other A/T cartridges.

I'd start with the cartridge then consider a phono stage.
 
displayname said:
To quickly answer your question, yes you could add an external phono-preamp (aka phonostage) to your R-15PM.

To help sort out your confusion, you need a little deeper understanding of the audio chain. In a turntable set you you will always need the following components:
Cartridge (aka needle portion) > Turntable > Phonostage > Amp > Speaker

This gets confusing to many new people because many entry level pieces have multiple parts in one box/piece. So let's break down your system.

In your LP60, you have the cartridge, turntable and phonostage all in one piece.
In your R-15PM you have a second phonostage, amp and speaker all in one box.

If you were to set your turntable to "line" and your speakers input to "phono" you'd have both phonostaged turned on... and that is going to sound bad.

If you have your TT set to "phono" and your speakers set to "line", then neither unit has the phonostage turned on, and this will sound way to quiet.

You can see which units phonostage you like better. Try them both.

Testing the TT phonostage: set TT to line, and speakers to line.

Testing the speakers phonostage: set TT to phono and speakers to phono.

To use an external phonostage: set TT to line, plug into phonostage inputs, set speakers to line, plug phonostage outputs into the speaker.

Last bit, I'd upgraded your TT before adding a preamp. Even if it's just a Uturn or something similar. In my opinion, the LP60 will remain the weakest link in your system, despite any additional gear changes.
Click to expand...
Wait, so the phono setting on the tt with a built in preamp means it's NOT going thru the on board phono? To engage the tt on board phono, you would flip it to the line setting? Am I reading that right?
 
Splunders said:
Wait, so the phono setting on the tt with a built in preamp means it's NOT going thru the on board phono? To engage the tt on board phono, you would flip it to the line setting? Am I reading that right?
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@ghostdorado

I think the meaning of the switches is different as one is an output and one is an input. From the standpoint of the turntable, switching to 'phono' means you are sending an un-amplified signal intended for a phono input on the far end, while switching to 'line' means you are sending an amplified signal intended for a normal line input. On the speaker side, you're selecting whether the received signal is amplified (line) or unamplified (phono).

So:
'Phono' on the turntable ---unamplified signal---> 'Phono' on the speaker input = correct, using the speaker phono stage. ✅
'Line' on the turntable ---amplified signal---> 'Line' on the Speaker input = correct, using the turntable phono stage. ✅
'Phono' on the turntable ---unamplified signal---> 'Line' on the speaker input = completely unamplified signal. ❌
'Line' on the turntable ---amplified signal---> 'Phono' on the speaker input = doubly-amplified signal. ❌ ❌ ❌
 
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kvetcha said:
@ghostdorado

I think the meaning of the switches is different as one is an output and one is an input. From the standpoint of the turntable, switching to 'phono' means you are sending an un-amplified signal intended for a phono input on the far end, while switching to 'line' means you are sending an amplified signal intended for a normal line input. On the speaker side, you're selecting whether the received signal is amplified (line) or unamplified (phono).

So:
'Phono' on the turntable ---unamplified signal---> 'Phono' on the speaker input = correct, using the speaker phono stage. ✅
'Line' on the turntable ---amplified signal---> 'Line' on the Speaker input = correct, using the turntable phono stage. ✅
'Phono' on the turntable ---unamplified signal---> 'Line' on the speaker input = completely unamplified signal. ❌
'Line' on the turntable ---amplified signal---> 'Line' on the speaker input = doubly-amplified signal. ❌ ❌ ❌
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Very well laid out explanation! I had an lp60 way back, and more recently a Denon DP300. The Denon utilized on vs off in regards to whether the on board phonostage was engaged or not. I think that's why I got confused. Either way, we'd all agree that when finances allow, getting a dedicated outboard phono preamp is the best way to go
 
Joe Mac said:
If it had a Phono/Line switch on the input or separate phono and line in inputs then yes you can use an outboard phono stage. You can’t use an amplifier with powered speakers, they amplify themselves.

You would know if you were doubling up on the phono stages, it’d sound horrific!
Click to expand...
displayname said:
To quickly answer your question, yes you could add an external phono-preamp (aka phonostage) to your R-15PM.

To help sort out your confusion, you need a little deeper understanding of the audio chain. In a turntable set you you will always need the following components:
Cartridge (aka needle portion) > Turntable > Phonostage > Amp > Speaker

This gets confusing to many new people because many entry level pieces have multiple parts in one box/piece. So let's break down your system.

In your LP60, you have the cartridge, turntable and phonostage all in one piece.
In your R-15PM you have a second phonostage, amp and speaker all in one box.

If you were to set your turntable to "line" and your speakers input to "phono" you'd have both phonostaged turned on... and that is going to sound bad.

If you have your TT set to "phono" and your speakers set to "line", then neither unit has the phonostage turned on, and this will sound way to quiet.

You can see which units phonostage you like better. Try them both.

Testing the TT phonostage: set TT to line, and speakers to line.

Testing the speakers phonostage: set TT to phono and speakers to phono.

To use an external phonostage: set TT to line, plug into phonostage inputs, set speakers to line, plug phonostage outputs into the speaker.

Last bit, I'd upgraded your TT before adding a preamp. Even if it's just a Uturn or something similar. In my opinion, the LP60 will remain the weakest link in your system, despite any additional gear changes.
Click to expand...
kvetcha said:
@ghostdorado

I think the meaning of the switches is different as one is an output and one is an input. From the standpoint of the turntable, switching to 'phono' means you are sending an un-amplified signal intended for a phono input on the far end, while switching to 'line' means you are sending an amplified signal intended for a normal line input. On the speaker side, you're selecting whether the received signal is amplified (line) or unamplified (phono).

So:
'Phono' on the turntable ---unamplified signal---> 'Phono' on the speaker input = correct, using the speaker phono stage. ✅
'Line' on the turntable ---amplified signal---> 'Line' on the Speaker input = correct, using the turntable phono stage. ✅
'Phono' on the turntable ---unamplified signal---> 'Line' on the speaker input = completely unamplified signal. ❌
'Line' on the turntable ---amplified signal---> 'Line' on the speaker input = doubly-amplified signal. ❌ ❌ ❌
Click to expand...

You guys have been so incredibly helpful, for real! Been confused about this for months, I’m going to play around and see which ones pre-amp sounds better now without fear of exploding my precious little speakers. Appreciate you guys!
 
If you're unsure if you selected a safe combination of those switches, you can always turn the volume all the way down before playing, and then slowly turn it back up once you're sure it's in the groove. I'm pretty sure that would prevent a blown speaker or similar.
 
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