Equipment Recommendations - The Home For New System and Upgrade Advice

Mather said:
I'm also curious, informal poll... how many of you guys have subs in your system? I know there's a lot of hyperbole regarding whether a true 2 channel system should or should not have a sub but aside from all that I'm just curious.
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I do. I have bookshelves though so a little more low end helps.

EDIT: I should caveat a few things. 1) the sub was my dad's, I got it when he passed. 2) if I didn't have a sub, I don't know that I'd go out of my way to add one to my system, 3) if/when I upgrade or start a second system for the basement, I'm planning to go floorstanders and no sub. 4) the sub absolutely nails Paul's bass line in Baby You Can Drive My Car so I'm happy with the sound I'm getting.

My full setup is here
 
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Mather said:
I'm also curious, informal poll... how many of you guys have subs in your system? I know there's a lot of hyperbole regarding whether a true 2 channel system should or should not have a sub but aside from all that I'm just curious.
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I've had one. I don't miss it. As I keep moving up, I find myself looking for bass detail and texture more than impact. Impact is fun, but it's gets tiring over time I've found. Give me a speaker that dives into the 30s with detail and I'd probably prefer it over a sub with more impact. I've found that the biggest theme I see with systems with subs in normal settings is they are exciting because of the impact, but everything sounds more artificial after awhile. My best example is when you listen to pop music, are you listening to a computer generated/synth bass thump, a bass guitar with an effect, or some actual acoustic instrument creating those sounds. When you get into really high detail and texture, it becomes much more obvious how much of even pop music is played with a bass guitar vs a synth. You can hear the strings and finger work as you get into more detail.

But I will say super fast deep impacting bass is always impressive to show off. When I heard the Polk L800s I didn't have any desire to own them, but I do remember being impressed with just how fast they moved while still being able to punch you in the chest.
 
displayname said:
I've had one. I don't miss it. As I keep moving up, I find myself looking for bass detail and texture more than impact. Impact is fun, but it's gets tiring over time I've found. Give me a speaker that dives into the 30s with detail and I'd probably prefer it over a sub with more impact. I've found that the biggest theme I see with systems with subs in normal settings is they are exciting because of the impact, but everything sounds more artificial after awhile. My best example is when you listen to pop music, are you listening to a computer generated/synth bass thump, a bass guitar with an effect, or some actual acoustic instrument creating those sounds. When you get into really high detail and texture, it becomes much more obvious how much of even pop music is played with a bass guitar vs a synth. You can hear the strings and finger work as you get into more detail.

But I will say super fast deep impacting bass is always impressive to show off. When I heard the Polk L800s I didn't have any desire to own them, but I do remember being impressed with just how fast they moved while still being able to punch you in the chest.
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Yeah I mean it obviously depends on your speakers and drivers etc. Like those sweet Zu's have 10 inch drivers so I wouldn't think there's much need there... on smaller speakers though... I love my sub partially because my speakers only have triple 5.5 inch drivers BUT my sub is quite technical and is only running at 15% gain, so it's literally barely even on. But it fills in the spaces nicely. Ideally if I had a listening room that didn't have to double as my home theatre I would likely switch things around... but in my opinion the B10 does a really nice job technically without burying the music...
 
I run a elac10 with my elac f6.2's. I get a bit of both worlds. It can feel a bit artificial and tiring on some stuff, is exactly what is needed on some stuff, and is transparently filling the voids on most stuff. I've tried a lot of settings and roughly 25% on is good for me. I think a lot of my issue is my room configuration which is about as bad as one can possibly have. I've noticed my speakers sound substantially better when i setup my bench press with my head dead between them about 8 feet away. Also, also, my setup doubles as a home theatre so the sub is requisite there.
 
I've got an SVS PC-12 Plus cylinder sub with my Fortes. It's primarily for home theater use, but after listening to the Fortes in bare stereo I realized there are some room modes that I don't really have physical space to work around, and the sub helps to flesh things out. In another room, I don't think I'd have any problems going without it.

My father's got a pair of Forte IIs set up without a sub and they thump hard in the right space.
 
kvetcha said:
I've got an SVS PC-12 Plus cylinder sub with my Fortes. It's primarily for home theater use, but after listening to the Fortes in bare stereo I realized there are some room modes that I don't really have physical space to work around, and the sub helps to flesh things out. In another room, I don't think I'd have any problems going without it.

My father's got a pair of Forte IIs set up without a sub and they thump hard in the right space.
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Yes the room is obviously a huge thing too, like my listening space is a large rectangular room and my speakers have to shoot across it rather than down it, so the whole left side is open, and the whole right side is windows. So it's not ideal. Although I know it's totally antithetical to the idea of pure analogue sound this is where I think my Dirac room correction basically saves the day, makes sure all the gaps are filled and stops my sub from being boomy in any way by pulling all the frequencies into proper alignment and fixes bad reflections and holes etc..
 
My old surround sound setup had a sub for a while. My speakers were:
FrontBoston VR1
RearBoston CR85
CenterBoston VRC
SubVelodyne DD10

I spent several hours dialing in that subwoofer until it matched the rest of my system. A couple years later, the sub's built-in amplifier crapped out, and I had to remove the amp and send it in for replacement. I was never able to make it blend quite right after that. The amp $#@^ the bed again and I tossed the Velodyne in my junk room, never to be thought of again. I missed it for a week or so, and then no longer noticed its absence. It probably would serve even less purpose with my Zu speakers.
 
Mather said:
Yes the room is obviously a huge thing too, like my listening space is a large rectangular room and my speakers have to shoot across it rather than down it, so the whole left side is open, and the whole right side is windows. So it's not ideal. Although I know it's totally antithetical to the idea of pure analogue sound this is where I think my Dirac room correction basically saves the day, makes sure all the gaps are filled and stops my sub from being boomy in any way by pulling all the frequencies into proper alignment and fixes bad reflections and holes etc..
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I use room correction for HT on my Marantz, and it is quite helpful. I'm all analog on the vinyl end, though, so I've had to adjust crossover and subwoofer gain by ear. The subwoofer's contribution is thus a touch full-figured, but not so much so that it's distracting.
 
kvetcha said:
I use room correction for HT on my Marantz, and it is quite helpful. I'm all analog on the vinyl end, though, so I've had to adjust crossover and subwoofer gain by ear. The subwoofer's contribution is thus a touch full-figured, but not so much so that it's distracting.
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Similar boat. curious you opinion of the onboard pre or if you tried it. I'm interested in going with a standalone preamp but I'm not interested in putting out a bunch of money for little to know improvement.
 
debianlinux said:
Similar boat. curious you opinion of the onboard pre or if you tried it. I'm interested in going with a standalone preamp but I'm not interested in putting out a bunch of money for little to know improvement.
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I never actually used on the onboard pre on the Marantz. I always had an outboard unit; first a UTurn Pluto, then an iPhono2, then the 20/20. The jump from the Pluto to the iPhono2 was revelatory, and the jump from the iPhono2 to the Sutherland was palpable but comparatively subtle.

I have a friend using the on-board phono in his Marantz NR1200, though, and it seems fine. A bit muddier than I'm accustomed to, perhaps, but it's hard to tell how much of that is his table/cart.
 
Joe Mac said:
Yeah I only found that one of the MX-VYNL reduced on that dealers site, and another sold recently second hand on the audio mart. It is a good price for it though if it’s available and doable. I’d still upgrade the cart/stylus now and leave the stage till later if it was my $.
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Is $230 CAD a good price for a 2M Blue stylus? Amazon.ca currently has them on sale. You save $23.26 (9%) plus free one-day shipping with Prime.
 
Hollywood said:
Is $230 CAD a good price for a 2M Blue stylus? Amazon.ca currently has them on sale. You save $23.26 (9%) plus free one-day shipping with Prime.
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How much can you get an AT95ml or AT540ml full cart for? If it's less than the blue might be worth saving a few bucks as I don't think the blue would better either.
 
Hollywood said:
Is $230 CAD a good price for a 2M Blue stylus? Amazon.ca currently has them on sale. You save $23.26 (9%) plus free one-day shipping with Prime.
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If the "anniversary edition" or whatever is still available somewhere it will likely be cheaper. I got mine back in March for $180 and it's the exact same thing.
 
Hollywood said:
Is $230 CAD a good price for a 2M Blue stylus? Amazon.ca currently has them on sale. You save $23.26 (9%) plus free one-day shipping with Prime.
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www.analogueseduction.net

Ortofon 2M Blue Stylus Replacement

Ortofon 2M Blue Stylus Replacement Original Replacement stylus for the Ortofon 2M Blue cartridge.
www.analogueseduction.net

£113.32 (CAD$192.88) including delivery

It’s listed as £130 but they take the VAT off when you pick a country outside the EU for shipping.
 
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