Equipment Recommendations - The Home For New System and Upgrade Advice

Joe Mac said:
DIRAC does intrigue me. More so because of what you have said that anything else because the core idea of digitising vinyl is still a bit odd to me.

I’m not getting rid of tubes so it’d have to be built into the preamp and there’s nothing that quite interests me enough yet. The NAD C one is a bit plain jane and doesn’t have balanced inputs or the right digital inputs for its DAC. Maybe if they refresh the M line but the current preamp in it doesn’t do DIRAC.
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Oh trust me, I get it. I mean when I first got the AVR I had intended on perhaps just going pure direct out when using the TT but after lining everything up and toggling between the two, I mean it wasn't even close. I can't hear any difference fidelity wise at all. Like, zero. And trust me, I'm pretty sensitive to that stuff to the point of being obsessive. In fact the pure direct sounds muddier and less defined by a fair bit. I'm sure in a perfect listening room without windows and poorly placed furniture etc that it would be much less effective but for weird rooms with weird issues it certainly does the trick for me.
Marshall heard it in person earlier this month and his description was that it sounded like an "analogue concert hall".

But I mean maybe your room is way better than mine acoustically and you wouldn't have as much need for it. Who knows. My room also doubles as a surround sound tv watching spot so it also helps immeasurably with the imaging on that as well. So it's doing double duty. The difference between it running Atmos without correction in the theatre downstairs vs with, is massive. 3D Imaging and bass especially are hugely improved. And that's in a room with 1.5 walls of solid rock reflecting the sound back at you. The first room correction I ran down there on my old Denon the sound was bouncing around so much that the Denon was telling me my speakers were all connected out of phase. Dirac completely cleaned all that up, I don't understand how but it does it and does it well.
 
Mather said:
Oh trust me, I get it. I mean when I first got the AVR I had intended on perhaps just going pure direct out when using the TT but after lining everything up and toggling between the two, I mean it wasn't even close. I can't hear any difference fidelity wise at all. Like, zero. And trust me, I'm pretty sensitive to that stuff to the point of being obsessive. In fact the pure direct sounds muddier and less defined by a fair bit. I'm sure in a perfect listening room without windows and poorly placed furniture etc that it would be much less effective but for weird rooms with weird issues it certainly does the trick for me.
Marshall heard it in person earlier this month and his description was that it sounded like an "analogue concert hall".

But I mean maybe your room is way better than mine acoustically and you wouldn't have as much need for it. Who knows. My room also doubles as a surround sound tv watching spot so it also helps immeasurably with the imaging on that as well. So it's doing double duty. The difference between it running Atmos without correction in my theatre, vs with is massive. 3D Imaging and bass especially are hugely improved. And that's in a room with 1.5 walls of solid rock reflecting the sound back at you. The first room correction I ran down there on my old Denon the sound was bouncing around so much that the Denon was telling me my speakers were all connected out of phase. Dirac completely cleaned all that up, I don't understand how but it does it and does it well.
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Yeah I might look at it down the line if NAD refreshes the M preamp, which they should do, and it looks nice or another brand comes out with the a pretty DIRAC preamp that matches the rest of my silver stuff.

But being able to run fully balanced and either an I2S or AES input to the the DAC are completely non negotiable for me lol.
 
Mather said:
Oh trust me, I get it. I mean when I first got the AVR I had intended on perhaps just going pure direct out when using the TT but after lining everything up and toggling between the two, I mean it wasn't even close. I can't hear any difference fidelity wise at all. Like, zero. And trust me, I'm pretty sensitive to that stuff to the point of being obsessive. In fact the pure direct sounds muddier and less defined by a fair bit. I'm sure in a perfect listening room without windows and poorly placed furniture etc that it would be much less effective but for weird rooms with weird issues it certainly does the trick for me.
Marshall heard it in person earlier this month and his description was that it sounded like an "analogue concert hall".

But I mean maybe your room is way better than mine acoustically and you wouldn't have as much need for it. Who knows. My room also doubles as a surround sound tv watching spot so it also helps immeasurably with the imaging on that as well. So it's doing double duty. The difference between it running Atmos without correction in the theatre downstairs vs with, is massive. 3D Imaging and bass especially are hugely improved. And that's in a room with 1.5 walls of solid rock reflecting the sound back at you. The first room correction I ran down there on my old Denon the sound was bouncing around so much that the Denon was telling me my speakers were all connected out of phase. Dirac completely cleaned all that up, I don't understand how but it does it and does it well.
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MAGIC! Either that or tiny dinosaurs inside all your equipment, which would explain the need for the murder dungeon.
 
Mather said:
Just get the Dirac and don't bother with that stuff. Unless your room has a horrible echo with everything in it, Dirac will fix this stuff for a fraction of that cost.
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Not to sound contrarian, but in my large system that has Dirac in the processor, I don’t even use it above 400hz. I just use it for DLBC with my 5 subs. DLBC is great at what it does. Above 400hz I use passive treatments from Vicoustic, GIK, and ATS. The treatments sound better than Dirac. It’s not even close.

Maybe their new active acoustic treatment will be great, but that’s for surround systems. In my 2ch system, which is in the family room, I have a few passive treatments and it sounds great to me. I tried an NAD with Dirac and returned it. *I* think it sounds better in a nearly untreated room than with Dirac.

If you treat and just do two panels either at first reflection, back, or ceiling it’s a low cost option that works. Just don’t go overboard in a music system, too much treatment can suck the liveliness out of the music.

Just my two cents of course.
 
SnowmaNick said:
Not to sound contrarian, but in my large system that has Dirac in the processor, I don’t even use it above 400hz. I just use it for DLBC with my 5 subs. DLBC is great at what it does. Above 400hz I use passive treatments from Vicoustic, GIK, and ATS. The treatments sound better than Dirac. It’s not even close.

Maybe their new active acoustic treatment will be great, but that’s for surround systems. In my 2ch system, which is in the family room, I have a few passive treatments and it sounds great to me. I tried an NAD with Dirac and returned it. *I* think it sounds better in a nearly untreated room than with Dirac.

If you treat and just do two panels either at first reflection, back, or ceiling it’s a low cost option that works. Just don’t go overboard in a music system, too much treatment can suck the liveliness out of the music.

Just my two cents of course.
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Yeah like I said, I'm sure it all depends on the room and the gear that's running it, and the actual setup itself too. You have to pick a good target curve or that will absolutely screw everything up to high heaven. But when he's already getting the amp with Dirac included, I think it makes sense to do that first before he starts dropping all sorts of money on acoustic treatments.
 
Mather said:
Yeah like I said, I'm sure it all depends on the room and the gear that's running it, and the actual setup itself too. You have to pick a good target curve or that will absolutely screw everything up to high heaven. But when he's already getting the amp with Dirac included, I think it makes sense to do that first before he starts dropping all sorts of money on acoustic treatments.
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Oh definitely. Play with it and see how it works in the actual room. I just mainly wanted to share that any room EQ isn’t a replacement for good placement and thoughtful treatment.

I also wanted to mention you can start with just a couple panels and add to taste and results as/if needed.

My decision to keep the room EQ below the Schroeder frequency came after 18 years of dealing with various algorithms, mics, curves and hardware. But I have a friend who swears by Trinnov and a few that prefer Dirac or Anthems ARC. Trinnov and Room Perfect intrigue me and I may go to one of their processors (Trinnov or Lyngdorf) for my next processor in a few years.
 
SnowmaNick said:
Oh definitely. Play with it and see how it works in the actual room. I just mainly wanted to share that any room EQ isn’t a replacement for good placement and thoughtful treatment.

I also wanted to mention you can start with just a couple panels and add to taste and results as/if needed.

My decision to keep the room EQ below the Schroeder frequency came after 18 years of dealing with various algorithms, mics, curves and hardware. But I have a friend who swears by Trinnov and a few that prefer Dirac or Anthems ARC. Trinnov and Room Perfect intrigue me and I may go to one of their processors (Trinnov or Lyngdorf) for my next processor in a few years.
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Oh for sure, I guess what I should have said was "For about $300 you'll get room correction that won't require you to convince your wife to allow you to cover the walls of your livingroom in large pricy acoustic paneling." Yes in a perfect world properly done room treatments are the best thing. But when he's mentioning $5000 treatments I just think there's a point at which you have to look at the cost of your system vs the cost of room treatments vs a relatively inexpensive room correction suite that works very well when it's dialed in. If I could cover all my walls in room treatments and ditch the Dirac I would, but that ain't happening unless we get a much much bigger house.
 
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I use Audyssey on my Denon AVR but it's setting up multi-channel 9.2.4

Really cool software. Perfectly lays out speaker distance, layout, dB, Hz etc.. Then you can go in and tweak lows and highs. I haven't become much of an expert there yet with pitch roll off but it's another level when you can adjust for sound waves in a room.
 
Jbraswell said:
I use Audyssey on my Denon AVR but it's setting up multi-channel 9.2.4

Really cool software. Perfectly lays out speaker distance, layout, dB, Hz etc.. Then you can go in a tweak lows and highs. I haven't become much of an expert there yet with pitch roll off but it's another level when you can adjust for sound waves in a room.
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Yeah I have fun with rolling off the really pitchy treble on Dirac, boosting mids a bit, it's super fun to play around with the target curve, you can completely change the entire sound of your system in about 15 minutes if you want to. It's cool.
 
HayesWeighsIn said:
Thanks everybody! Running it on my VPI, shouldn't be any issues with the stickers. Keep you posted on the sonics later this week!
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Well, the Achromat stickers….. I would rather change 3, 4 cartridges in a row than have to apply those again!?!! Goodness. Almost took me to a bad place 😂. I even called the poor MD tech guy to have him assure me I was doing this process correctly! You know, one shouldn’t be wielding a knife throughout something like this!!

Anyway, couple weeks on the Cliffwood’s platter, and I’ll be damned if it doesn’t just make…. everything a little better! Channel balance, instrument separation, low end, midrange, top end. I mean I legitimately can’t think of anything it hasn’t improved. It’s not something that will blow your mind or be a night and day A/B difference, but if you’re familiar with your system, it just tightens the screws all ‘round in a very pleasing way. I would say most noticeable on great pressings, too. It doesn’t fix what isn’t there, but it’s like getting some brand new tires for an already great ride.
 
HayesWeighsIn said:
Well, the Achromat stickers….. I would rather change 3, 4 cartridges in a row than have to apply those again!?!! Goodness. Almost took me to a bad place 😂. I even called the poor MD tech guy to have him assure me I was doing this process correctly! You know, one shouldn’t be wielding a knife throughout something like this!!

Anyway, couple weeks on the Cliffwood’s platter, and I’ll be damned if it doesn’t just make…. everything a little better! Channel balance, instrument separation, low end, midrange, top end. I mean I legitimately can’t think of anything it hasn’t improved. It’s not something that will blow your mind or be a night and day A/B difference, but if you’re familiar with your system, it just tightens the screws all ‘round in a very pleasing way. I would say most noticeable on great pressings, too. It doesn’t fix what isn’t there, but it’s like getting some brand new tires for an already great ride.
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I’m glad you like it. I’m impressed with mine as well.
 
HayesWeighsIn said:
Well, the Achromat stickers….. I would rather change 3, 4 cartridges in a row than have to apply those again!?!! Goodness. Almost took me to a bad place 😂. I even called the poor MD tech guy to have him assure me I was doing this process correctly! You know, one shouldn’t be wielding a knife throughout something like this!!

Anyway, couple weeks on the Cliffwood’s platter, and I’ll be damned if it doesn’t just make…. everything a little better! Channel balance, instrument separation, low end, midrange, top end. I mean I legitimately can’t think of anything it hasn’t improved. It’s not something that will blow your mind or be a night and day A/B difference, but if you’re familiar with your system, it just tightens the screws all ‘round in a very pleasing way. I would say most noticeable on great pressings, too. It doesn’t fix what isn’t there, but it’s like getting some brand new tires for an already great ride.
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That actually sounds very similar, in terms of a difference, to what the upgraded sub platter and bearing that I got from Acoustand did for my turntable. Biggest help was with the bass but in general it didn’t so much change the character, how could it, it just made everything just that little bit tighter.
 
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