Hip Hop

jaycee said:
I think it's equally wack to say things like this. None of us know this person's finances. None of us know their ability to access supplemental funds and interest rates from the banking industry.

Nobody "needs" to charge any particular price for anything.

The "need" in other markets / business is set (in theory) by overhead, where the business sits in the manufacturing and supply line, etc. and the relationship to demand. In this case you have someone running every aspect of the manufacture and supply line (other than pressing). If this person thinks their time and product are worth X, and people pay that price, then the system we are in dictates that's what the price is. Need has nothing to do with it.

I'm not saying it isn't expensive. I'm not saying it doesn't suck to pay that for a 2lp.
The system is inherently unfair and unjust
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Fair enough. Maybe saying "need" is not the right term. I don't know about his finances. You're right. It's not that hard to look at interest rates from the banking industry, but that's besides the point. As I said, I wouldn't want to take out a loan either right now. And I work in an industry where I get paid for time + talent so I understand valuing your time and charging for it.

Just sayin...he's been selling LPs for $25-$30 in the past. And now that he, and other artists, are seeing resale value, they want a piece of that action. I don't entirely blame them. But those resale values are ONLY because they choose to press limited quantities. It's a vicious cycle but either the artists aren't seeing it or are trying to up the prices themselves. IMO, there's a fine line between taking advantage of your fans and charging a premium for something. And as @dhodo said, there's a bit of a disconnect for me with the pricing of it and where it's being pressed/manufactured. And I know it's probably silly of me, but if this was pressed at Pallas with tip on sleeves, the price would be a bit more enticing to me because I know the quality is there. But I've gotten records from Ruby Yacht in the past with split seams and they wouldn't replace them, and we all know about how hit or miss GZ is. So it makes me think twice to drop more money than a MoFi costs on an album that likely won't be anywhere near the standards in quality of that. It also rubs me the wrong way when other people say "buy it for $77 now or $200 later" and say people aren't allowed to complain that a 2xLP is $77. Not saying you are saying this at all and I agree with your points overall, but it's a sentiment I've seen all over reddit and twitter about this release.

In an ideal world, he'll repress this for cheaper without the bonus tracks so more people can have access to it because the album is awesome and the $77 price tag is a big hurdle for lots of people. I give all praise to him for being independent and trying to do everything himself. I know how hard that can be to run a business on your own and have to do everything yourself. But there's also a point where it makes sense to bring in someone to help you with logistics.
 
I'm happy this discussion is happening not surrounding a Mach release. However, I do think MHL prices goin viral on twitter may have led to the $77. I think every artist should charge whatever they want for their art. They put hours, days, weeks, maybe months into this, and therefore should be paid for their work. Just like any other profession. We as consumers either comply or find a new artist to support. If I spent half a year on my album, I want to make half of my year's salary off that sale.

It's 77$. Spin it 77 times, that's $1 per play. Then sell it for $125 in a year if ur still regretting the price u paid today

Nobody tells painters how much they can sell their paintings for
 
MikeH said:
Fair enough. Maybe saying "need" is not the right term. I don't know about his finances. You're right. It's not that hard to look at interest rates from the banking industry, but that's besides the point. As I said, I wouldn't want to take out a loan either right now. And I work in an industry where I get paid for time + talent so I understand valuing your time and charging for it.

Just sayin...he's been selling LPs for $25-$30 in the past. And now that he, and other artists, are seeing resale value, they want a piece of that action. I don't entirely blame them. But those resale values are ONLY because they choose to press limited quantities. It's a vicious cycle but either the artists aren't seeing it or are trying to up the prices themselves. IMO, there's a fine line between taking advantage of your fans and charging a premium for something. And as @dhodo said, there's a bit of a disconnect for me with the pricing of it and where it's being pressed/manufactured. And I know it's probably silly of me, but if this was pressed at Pallas with tip on sleeves, the price would be a bit more enticing to me because I know the quality is there. But I've gotten records from Ruby Yacht in the past with split seams and they wouldn't replace them, and we all know about how hit or miss GZ is. So it makes me think twice to drop more money than a MoFi costs on an album that likely won't be anywhere near the standards in quality of that. It also rubs me the wrong way when other people say "buy it for $77 now or $200 later" and say people aren't allowed to complain that a 2xLP is $77. Not saying you are saying this at all and I agree with your points overall, but it's a sentiment I've seen all over reddit and twitter about this release.

In an ideal world, he'll repress this for cheaper without the bonus tracks so more people can have access to it because the album is awesome and the $77 price tag is a big hurdle for lots of people. I give all praise to him for being independent and trying to do everything himself. I know how hard that can be to run a business on your own and have to do everything yourself. But there's also a point where it makes sense to bring in someone to help you with logistics.
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It's not silly to want the best quality product for the price. I agree. I don't think the quality of the packaging is the only quality to judge tho (not that you were implying that), and at least this is a gatefold.... but I hesitated buying it because things have not been packaged well in the past and it is a bummer to pay anything and have a product come damaged or be manufactured to some standard that is less than excellent.

We live in a world were MoFi is doing another spectacular pressing of whatever artist that is almost always white and had been pressed 100 times before because that particular company and their mostly older customer base don't value hip-hop. Why are there not ultradisc one-step pressings of Purple Moonlight Pages? I don't think it's just because the artist doesn't want there to be.

I also don't see people complaining about 4AD pressing another version of Bossanova and charging $35 for it. The same as the MoFi. Or VMP doing the same thing. Sure $35 or $40 feels a lot more digestible than $80, but why do we need another pressing of a Pixies or Dylan or Beatles album that is readily available?

I do want to touch on something with regards to the loan thing. Soulfolks and Rory are based out of Biddford, ME. A few years ago there was an incident where he was harrassed at a local grocer and forced off-premises (I'm glossing over the details). I'm bringing this up because although interest rates are low currently getting a low rate is not guaranteed. Getting a loan offer is not guaranteed... and being a person that may or may not be the most welcomed in that community might play into what banks offer and how comfortable this person might be about asking the system for that help. I doubt there is a black financial institution in Biddeford or Portland or Kennebunk. So while I agree that different choices can be made if you are aware of and understand those options the access to those options isn't even across the board.

It's all so frustrating for those of us that just want to buy thing, collect thing, and listen to thing.
It's still cheaper than a sip of Mach's Hard Lemonade ;)
 
Jonathan Y said:
Nobody tells painters how much they can sell their paintings for
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I really don't listen to MILO so I don't really have a stake in the argument, but in general a painting is a 1 of 1, or part of a series with each being in some way unique from the others. now obviously paintings command a higher price because of this so a more apt comparison would be a print of a painting rather than a painting itself. and once again the rarity of that official print will help dictate the price, so someone like WSG will sell one hundred $100 prints of his album art based on the limited quantity, but like a vinyl record is not a 1 of 1... unless of course you're WU-TANG.
 
jaycee said:
It's not silly to want the best quality product for the price. I agree. I don't think the quality of the packaging is the only quality to judge tho (not that you were implying that), and at least this is a gatefold.... but I hesitated buying it because things have not been packaged well in the past and it is a bummer to pay anything and have a product come damaged or be manufactured to some standard that is less than excellent.

We live in a world were MoFi is doing another spectacular pressing of whatever artist that is almost always white and had been pressed 100 times before because that particular company and their mostly older customer base don't value hip-hop. Why are there not ultradisc one-step pressings of Purple Moonlight Pages? I don't think it's just because the artist doesn't want there to be.

I also don't see people complaining about 4AD pressing another version of Bossanova and charging $35 for it. The same as the MoFi. Or VMP doing the same thing. Sure $35 or $40 feels a lot more digestible than $80, but why do we need another pressing of a Pixies or Dylan or Beatles album that is readily available?

I do want to touch on something with regards to the loan thing. Soulfolks and Rory are based out of Biddford, ME. A few years ago there was an incident where he was harrassed at a local grocer and forced off-premises (I'm glossing over the details). I'm bringing this up because although interest rates are low currently getting a low rate is not guaranteed. Getting a loan offer is not guaranteed... and being a person that may or may not be the most welcomed in that community might play into what banks offer and how comfortable this person might be about asking the system for that help. I doubt there is a black financial institution in Biddeford or Portland or Kennebunk. So while I agree that different choices can be made if you are aware of and understand those options the access to those options isn't even across the board.

It's all so frustrating for those of us that just want to buy thing, collect thing, and listen to thing.
It's still cheaper than a sip of Mach's Hard Lemonade ;)
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I agree with most of this and your point on the loan is 100% understood and it's really sad this is still the case in 2020.

I get what you're saying with MoFi and agree with it too. But my point with the MoFi thing is not really the titles they choose to press, but more so that you know you're getting quality for the high price. I also know that if there's an issue with the packaging or record with MoFi, I will 100% get a new copy and the issue will be resolved fairly easily. I don't know that is the case with this release. I also don't know that is the case with VMP anymore which is why I have cut back on purchasing from them by a LOT.

I also say all of this and there's a chance I will still buy it. I love this album. It's just a hard pill to swallow.
 
Tillman said:
I really don't listen to MILO so I don't really have a stake in the argument, but in general a painting is a 1 of 1, or part of a series with each being in some way unique from the others. now obviously paintings command a higher price because of this so a more apt comparison would be a print of a painting rather than a painting itself. and once again the rarity of that official print will help dictate the price, so someone like WSG will sell one hundred $100 prints of his album art based on the limited quantity, but like a vinyl record is not a 1 of 1... unless of course you're WU-TANG.
Click to expand...

Yea I hear ya. Wasn't the best comparison! I was just going for no one can price an artist's art except that artist. If the art moves you enough price shouldn't be an issue
 
jaycee said:
It's not silly to want the best quality product for the price. I agree. I don't think the quality of the packaging is the only quality to judge tho (not that you were implying that), and at least this is a gatefold.... but I hesitated buying it because things have not been packaged well in the past and it is a bummer to pay anything and have a product come damaged or be manufactured to some standard that is less than excellent.

We live in a world were MoFi is doing another spectacular pressing of whatever artist that is almost always white and had been pressed 100 times before because that particular company and their mostly older customer base don't value hip-hop. Why are there not ultradisc one-step pressings of Purple Moonlight Pages? I don't think it's just because the artist doesn't want there to be.

I also don't see people complaining about 4AD pressing another version of Bossanova and charging $35 for it. The same as the MoFi. Or VMP doing the same thing. Sure $35 or $40 feels a lot more digestible than $80, but why do we need another pressing of a Pixies or Dylan or Beatles album that is readily available?

I do want to touch on something with regards to the loan thing. Soulfolks and Rory are based out of Biddford, ME. A few years ago there was an incident where he was harrassed at a local grocer and forced off-premises (I'm glossing over the details). I'm bringing this up because although interest rates are low currently getting a low rate is not guaranteed. Getting a loan offer is not guaranteed... and being a person that may or may not be the most welcomed in that community might play into what banks offer and how comfortable this person might be about asking the system for that help. I doubt there is a black financial institution in Biddeford or Portland or Kennebunk. So while I agree that different choices can be made if you are aware of and understand those options the access to those options isn't even across the board.

It's all so frustrating for those of us that just want to buy thing, collect thing, and listen to thing.
It's still cheaper than a sip of Mach's Hard Lemonade ;)
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Just to update anyone who cares, apparently he moved to Nashville fairly recently and wants to open a Soulfolks there as well. Not sure if he closed the other one or not. I'm sure that didn't help with his finances either.
 
Tillman said:
I really don't listen to MILO so I don't really have a stake in the argument, but in general a painting is a 1 of 1, or part of a series with each being in some way unique from the others. now obviously paintings command a higher price because of this so a more apt comparison would be a print of a painting rather than a painting itself. and once again the rarity of that official print will help dictate the price, so someone like WSG will sell one hundred $100 prints of his album art based on the limited quantity, but like a vinyl record is not a 1 of 1... unless of course you're WU-TANG.
Click to expand...

hahaha - excellent reference

 
Jonathan Y said:
Yea I hear ya. Wasn't the best comparison! I was just going for no one can price an artist's art except that artist. If the art moves you enough price shouldn't be an issue
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I totally agree, it's definitely on the artist to set the price and I guess it's on the consumer whether or not to validate that price.

like I said I don't listen to him, but what I know of him he seems like an honest, hard working individual and a true struggling/starving artist. someone like that I would be more likely to spend the extra money for the product because it allows that artist to keep making art rather than explore non-creative avenues to make ends meet. it sucks that his record costs $77 on vinyl, but if you're a fan it would probably suck more for the dude to throw his hands up and quit because it's simply not worth the effort he puts in, which is something he seems to flirt with.

I'm not saying anyone owes it to him to buy his vinyl at $77, but by doing so at least you're helping him keep his career on life support rather than helping someone purchase another $250,000 diamond/gold chain.
 
ThePakoBuelna said:
Alright I did a thing. Got to say thanks to @Enaz Fox for pushing me off the cliff lol. Right now fortunately I'm in a position to be able to support and buy things and as @Jonathan Y said, we could probably sell it down the line.

It's good to know the money probably ends up with him directly 🤘
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Hopefully you didn't forget to clear the 1500 out of your cart first!
 
ThePakoBuelna said:
Alright I did a thing. Got to say thanks to @Enaz Fox for pushing me off the cliff lol. Right now fortunately I'm in a position to be able to support and buy things and as @Jonathan Y said, we could probably sell it down the line.

It's good to know the money probably ends up with him directly 🤘
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My PayPal reciept is just his full name, so definitely direct!
 
Interesting discussion Re: Purple Moonlight Pages. I like the album but not enough to spend $77 on it, so I won’t be copping but I'm enjoying the discussion of hip hop in terms of appreciable art as well as commerce. Props to you guys for supporting an artist you love.

Also, if there are any Anticon folks up in here, Sole just dropped a Best-of for his Mansbestfriend series. $29 shipped to the US. I've never ordered from Digger's Factory but it looks like a timed release....

www.diggersfactory.com

Sole - the best of mansbestfriend - Diggers Factory

Discover the whole Sole album at Diggers Factory
www.diggersfactory.com www.diggersfactory.com
 
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