Hot Take/ Musical Confession Thread!

Selaws said:
I guess my answer would depend on which context it is used. If it's an offensive stereotype or blackface then, of course, it's not acceptable, and if the colour/ancestry of the character they are playing is intrinsic to the story then it wouldn't make sense either. But outside of that I personally don't see an issue with different races playing any character they see fit as long as it's in a respectful manner.

The same way that I think it pretty well agreed that Samuel L Jackson kills the role of Nick Fury (who was depicted as a white man in the comics), Morgan Freeman's portrayal of Red in the Shawshank Redemption (an Irish character in the book) is iconic, and more recently Zendaya as Mary Jane Watson (a white character in the comics) is perhaps the best portrayal to date (in my opinion anyway).

Of the 3 examples I mentioned earlier I have seen Dakota Johnson voicing Madame Web in Into The Spiderverse and from what I remember she wasn't making fun of her character disability in that role. I haven't seen the other 2 so I can't comment on those I'm afraid.

As an fyi, I'm not bringing this up to cause any friction, I'm generally interested to hear peoples stances on it.
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FYI.., in the Ultimate Universe, Nuck Fury was drawn as Jackson well before it happened on screen.
 
debianlinux said:
White people maintain their hold on the highest social power. I think this is one of the fundamental reasons there's issues with them playing other races/sexes/etc. There's a common argument that only those who hold systemic power can truly be racist as racism is ultimately a power structure and thus those who cannot wield it cannot truly be racist (merely discriminatory). Thus, there is a substantial difference from a white person playing the role of say an american indian than the reverse. When a white man does this it intrinsically whitewashes the role and extrinsically robs that ethnicity of opportunity to represent themselves. With white people being so well represented, one cannot argue the reverse is necessarily true.

Back to your examples, they were all examples of non-whites playing white roles and thus, in my estimation, a deflection from the very question you appeared to be asking to begin with.
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Makes sense in the context of your explanation, thanks for explaining.

These are the kind of responses I was hoping for (in terms of detail, I didn't really know what the specifics would be).

It's interesting seeing all of these issues from different perspectives, which at the end of the day is the only way we learn. I know full well that my kids will be mixed race when we have them so the more knowledge I'm armed with the better it can be handled should similar issues ever arise.
 
Selaws said:
Makes sense in the context of your explanation, thanks for explaining.

These are the kind of responses I was hoping for (in terms of detail, I didn't really know what the specifics would be).

It's interesting seeing all of these issues from different perspectives, which at the end of the day is the only way we learn. I know full well that my kids will be mixed race when we have them so the more knowledge I'm armed with the better it can be handled should similar issues ever arise.
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Having a mixed race child, they’ll be able to help you out way more than you can them.
 
What stands out to me from this discussion is that I feel like there’s a lot more discussion/concern directed to instances where white actors are cast in non-white roles, when, from my perspective, the real issue is the kind of broader racism that says that someone who’s Asian or Black should only be cast in a role that’s explicitly, like, about them being that race and limits their opportunities to those kinds of roles. I think that’s what makes a white actor getting one of those roles as a non-white character so controversial, but hopefully things will move in the direction of focusing less on racial characteristics and more on ability to play the role, but it seems like there have been so many instances of backlash against nonwhite actors who have been cast in roles that people considered to be “white” for whatever reason. I feel like we’d all be better off if this was policed less rigidly on all sides and everyone was given more opportunities to play any type of role (unless it’s like a documentary or something).

I’ve also never really heard of any outrage over straight actors playing gay characters - I thought it was pretty commonly accepted that taking on a gay role in a film was something actors did to show their range and flex their chops.

And on cancel culture, my reaction when people complain about it is to laugh and say “well, imagine if you were cancelled not for something you chose to say or do that but instead were cancelled just for existing as a certain kind of human being no matter what you actually said or did.” I can’t handle people acting like they are a victim just because they suffer consequences for their words/actions when there is actual injustice in the world and so much unearned suffering.
 
Lee Newman said:
Weren't we discussing Spoon recently? The new album sounds like Tom Petty did a collab with Oasis.
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Really? More like Britt Daniel decided Pixies and Gang of Four were bands the new kids with disposable income had never related to and the only band he, himself could relate to anymore that he felt certain everyone must still know was The Rolling Stones so he demanded everyone brush up on emulating them now.
 
Lee Newman said:
Weren't we discussing Spoon recently? The new album sounds like Tom Petty did a collab with Oasis.
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debianlinux said:
Really? More like Britt Daniel decided Pixies and Gang of Four were bands the new kids with disposable income had never related to and the only band he, himself could relate to anymore that he felt certain everyone must still know was The Rolling Stones so he demanded everyone brush up on emulating them now.
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The good thing with both of these takes is that I can't tell if you think this is a good or a bad thing 😂
 
Hemotep said:
No one is getting cancelled for minor deeds of the past. Most of those who claim to have been cancelled are shouting about it from major media platforms. That's not being cancelled. If Louis CK can jerk off on unsuspecting women and still have comedy specials, Marilyn Manson can rape and still sell records, Joe Rogan can say the n word over and over and still have offers for $100 million contacts, then these assholes aren't being cancelled. And it takes about two seconds to learn someone's pronouns and treat them with the respect they're asking for. It seems like only people who look like me have a problem with all this and we're the ones who haven't been held accountable for our actions cause we've had the power. The tables are finally being turned and surprise surprise we don't like others having a voice that we've always had. But if you want to speak of cancel culture, again people who look like me and control the legal system are making it illegal to teach about slavery. They make it harder for women to get justice for sexual assault and put them on trial while rapists like that Stanford fuck get a slap on the wrist for raping an unconscious woman. That's the cancel culture. These aren't minor deeds, this is systematic oppression and it makes me embarrassed of those who can't be half assed to learn how to say them/their without feeling like they need to belittle those trying to just be treated as a normal human with equal rights to exist.
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Yeah so I dropped my Hottake ( cant honestly say im fully invested in it) and then got busy at work but i should reply....

So I'm certainly not going to disagree with your M. Manson statement & Louis CK (whoever he is?) etc etc or any other criminal activity getting justice. ( i sort of take that as a given)

There are other examples you made that i'm not aware of - in the UK no one is banning Slavery discussions - Although we do have a thing about monuments.
But without listing too many examples i'm more thinking of - Past discussions by adolescents on social media accounts that come back to bite when they are famous. I think thats bullshit - people change/ mature etc. There was a not very famous instance of an English cricketer - There have been others where the media trawl for usable quotes and smash it on front pages. I think its unfair - like i said no one is perfect all the time. And again even if they are not "cancelled" we are getting incredibly judgemental.

Jimmy Carr in the UK bomb dropped purposefully some really edgy and down right offensive comedic material - Personally I don't like him (just an irrational dislike of his face) - But he is getting a huge backlash. Edgy comedy can be very funny - no one really believes the comedian in question believes what he /she is saying do they ? I give them a pass on most topics - even i have some limits. But I'm beginning to see a place where that wont be allowed anymore. Frankie Boyle was another who went off grid for a while. Both UK examples.

Sort of Conclusion :
I think we can find a position where people get the voice they are entitled too and I don't have to think about Pronouns - Yeah pronouns - im not on board. Just cant see the big deal (feels like people looking for an argument most of the time). If for example their is one work colleague out of our huge Head office who identifies as "It" - Im not going to remember that - I'm barely aware of first names.
I suppose I'm lucky so far I don't think it has hit my sphere of private / work connections.

I'm done now. I was in a Hottake mood yesterday - Not so much today.
 
ByersVinyl said:
Yeah so I dropped my Hottake ( cant honestly say im fully invested in it) and then got busy at work but i should reply....

So I'm certainly not going to disagree with your M. Manson statement & Louis CK (whoever he is?) etc etc or any other criminal activity getting justice. ( i sort of take that as a given)

There are other examples you made that i'm not aware of - in the UK no one is banning Slavery discussions - Although we do have a thing about monuments.
But without listing too many examples i'm more thinking of - Past discussions by adolescents on social media accounts that come back to bite when they are famous. I think thats bullshit - people change/ mature etc. There was a not very famous instance of an English cricketer - There have been others where the media trawl for usable quotes and smash it on front pages. I think its unfair - like i said no one is perfect all the time. And again even if they are not "cancelled" we are getting incredibly judgemental.

Jimmy Carr in the UK bomb dropped purposefully some really edgy and down right offensive comedic material - Personally I don't like him (just an irrational dislike of his face) - But he is getting a huge backlash. Edgy comedy can be very funny - no one really believes the comedian in question believes what he /she is saying do they ? I give them a pass on most topics - even i have some limits. But I'm beginning to see a place where that wont be allowed anymore. Frankie Boyle was another who went off grid for a while. Both UK examples.

Sort of Conclusion :
I think we can find a position where people get the voice they are entitled too and I don't have to think about Pronouns - Yeah pronouns - im not on board. Just cant see the big deal (feels like people looking for an argument most of the time). If for example their is one work colleague out of our huge Head office who identifies as "It" - Im not going to remember that - I'm barely aware of first names.
I suppose I'm lucky so far I don't think it has hit my sphere of private / work connections.

I'm done now. I was in a Hottake mood yesterday - Not so much today.
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Louis CK is an American comedian who made outrageous statements on stage about things he did to women… then it turned out he did them…
 
dhodo said:
Nobody needs any collection. Are you saying none of us will ever listen to 2/3 of our collection again? Or do you mean that if someone doesn't listen to something frequently you don't think they should keep it?
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Yea records are good water, shelter, or relationships, but they do provide entertainment.

But they are important to us enough to be a need. People need interests to he happy. What I’m saying is sometimes I feel we just by the same music over and over again. Or just buy stuff and listen to to it for a few months and forget we have it in our collection.
 
Dtknuckles said:
Yea records are good water, shelter, or relationships, but they do provide entertainment.

But they are important to us enough to be a need. People need interests to he happy. What I’m saying is sometimes I feel we just by the same music over and over again. Or just buy stuff and listen to to it for a few months and forget we have it in our collection.
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I think that's fair. I definitely don't and especially lately, can't spin everything in my collection every year, but in general I try to limit mine to albums that when I do play them I am glad they are in my collection, which still is a lot. I don't think I would be happy to pare down the ones I'm not craving as often as I would miss them when I do. I will run out of room eventually though and I'm not sure what I'll do then.

I just went through my whole collection to clean it and there aren't a lot of albums that aren't duplicates that I was able to talk myself into selling other than some old ones that I was given that may not be worth the trouble of dealing with discogs price/demand wise. I suppose I should at least give them to my local record store though.
 
dhodo said:
I think that's fair. I definitely don't and especially lately, can't spin everything in my collection every year, but in general I try to limit mine to albums that when I do play them I am glad they are in my collection, which still is a lot. I don't think I would be happy to pare down the ones I'm not craving as often as I would miss them when I do. I will run out of room eventually though and I'm not sure what I'll do then.

I just went through my whole collection to clean it and there aren't a lot of albums that aren't duplicates that I was able to talk myself into selling other than some old ones that I was given that may not be worth the trouble of dealing with discogs price/demand wise. I suppose I should at least give them to my local record store though.
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**cough...PIF Thread:


 
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