It Could Get A Bit Messi In Here - The Football Thread.

Joe Mac said:
Yeah. I’d fancy the European teams this time though. Well those that don’t run around like like lunatics anyway. They shouldn’t be burned out like they can be in June. The best players tend to be conditioned to really hit their stride around late November so they should be right at the peak of their fitness for it. But France do still have a frightening squad. But yeah I just have this nagging feeling that Spain will do something big this time.
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I was thinking the same thing at first (that the November Cup favors the Europeans because they will be in early-/mid-season) but then I remembered that the top non-European teams (read: Brazil) are basically 100% Europe-based players. Obviously I’m hoping Brazil will win; all we need is for Neymar to get injured before the WC so all the young talent we have is able to shine.

(That and we also need a better right back than 38-year-old Dani Alves.)
 
Joe Mac said:
I could be wrong but I’m guessing that with Mexico being by far and away the biggest football country in your confederation that they probably don’t always find it all that easy to get up for all of the qualifying matches and probably underperform to potential and still qualify without too much drama. They always look a handy team with tidy players that maybe just lack that bit of something magic to go further.
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Having watched quite a few Mexico games in recent weeks, I can report that their current team is hot garbage. Canada is the only CONCACAF team that has any real quality this time around IMO, which is a bizarre thing to say considering their absolute lack of football tradition.
 
bettim84 said:
I was thinking the same thing at first (that the November Cup favors the Europeans because they will be in early-/mid-season) but then I remembered that the top non-European teams (read: Brazil) are basically 100% Europe-based players. Obviously I’m hoping Brazil will win; all we need is for Neymar to get injured before the WC so all the young talent we have is able to shine.

(That and we also need a better right back than 38-year-old Dani Alves.)
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I don’t want to see Brazil win personally. I don’t really dislike them, but I have a hat in the ring as a Germany fan so I’d rather not see them get a 6th before Germany get a 5th. All that being said, I have a feeling Brazil will do really well this World Cup. #1 ranked team has never won the World Cup going in, but they have looked excellent in qualifying. Cruised to a record number of points without any main talisman of a player. No Ronaldo, no Ronaldinho. There’s obviously Neymar but you haven’t really needed him all the time and there’s good quality depth in every position (maybe not RB lol). Getting a healthy Neymar really will be the key. If he wasn’t injured in the last World Cup or versus Germany in 2014, who knows what would have happened.
 
Jonathan Y said:
Money. The poor people of Qatar. This has a FYRE Fest feel to it. I expect a documentary of the travesty that's already taken place in regard to the labor of the locals to get the frickin grass ready. Let alone resources and infrastructure that's going to be hit.

They're gonna be in over there heads with people itching to travel again too. Worse than 2018 imo.

This.
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Well yes worse than 2018 given that the 5 million were spread across the largest country in the world! There were so many reasons Russia should not have got the World Cup, all of which given recent events throw extra light on the corrupt double decision in 2010. One of the things that wasn’t an issue with that decision was Russia’s size and ability to absorb millions of foreign tourists!

I can’t even imagine 5 million people arriving here over the course of a month, it’s insane, the entire population of the 26 counties is only around that!
 
bettim84 said:
Having watched quite a few Mexico games in recent weeks, I can report that their current team is hot garbage. Canada is the only CONCACAF team that has any real quality this time around IMO, which is a bizarre thing to say considering their absolute lack of football tradition.
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True but then Canada has always been a country that has had a really progressive strictures towards immigration and if you look at their starting line up it is, a bit like the France team of 98, a really good piece of propaganda in favour of immigration and integration. Prior to this team the only Canadian footballers I knew were either Scottish lads with links to Canada who couldn’t get in the Scotland team, which really does not speak to quality, and the two lads, Begovic and Hargreaves, who decided to play for Bosnia and England instead.

They could spring a surprise for sure, I really rate Davies and David, but from what little I’ve seen of them they play deep and try to take advantage of that pace on the break. That could be difficult at, potentially, 30 C against a team like Croatia that will keep the ball for the sake of keeping the ball. That and I’d be dubious as to whether that form has been competitively tested against real quality.

All that said I love a story and Canada doing well would be a great story.
 
bettim84 said:
I was thinking the same thing at first (that the November Cup favors the Europeans because they will be in early-/mid-season) but then I remembered that the top non-European teams (read: Brazil) are basically 100% Europe-based players. Obviously I’m hoping Brazil will win; all we need is for Neymar to get injured before the WC so all the young talent we have is able to shine.

(That and we also need a better right back than 38-year-old Dani Alves.)
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Yes that’s fair. The last few world cups have seen Brazil and Argentina suffer from the same effects for sure.

Do you think you’re good enough this time around? Everyone had a soft spot for the great Brazil sides but they all had 5 or 6 superstars that were amongst the best players in Europe and at the bigger clubs in Spain and Italy. This side seems to have a few too many pretty average grafters. I’m looking at the likes of Fred who is as industrious as they come but I have questions about his quality in a poor united team, never mind internationally. Or Richallisson who can’t even consistently look like the best player in an Everton side that are sinking like a stone.

I could again be proven spectacularly wrong but it feels a long way from Romario and Bebeto or the 3 R’s in 2002, never mind the legendary great teams of the 50s and 60s or 70 or 82.
 
Joe Mac said:
Yes that’s fair. The last few world cups have seen Brazil and Argentina suffer from the same effects for sure.

Do you think you’re good enough this time around? Everyone had a soft spot for the great Brazil sides but they all had 5 or 6 superstars that were amongst the best players in Europe and at the bigger clubs in Spain and Italy. This side seems to have a few too many pretty average grafters. I’m looking at the likes of Fred who is as industrious as they come but I have questions about his quality in a poor united team, never mind internationally. Or Richallisson who can’t even consistently look like the best player in an Everton side that are sinking like a stone.

I could again be proven spectacularly wrong but it feels a long way from Romario and Bebeto or the 3 R’s in 2002, never mind the legendary great teams of the 50s and 60s or 70 or 82.
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Yeah, we’re good enough to win it. I’m not saying that will happen, but we have a solid chance. That 1994 squad wasn’t great and wouldn’t have made it far, let alone won it all, if not for Romario.

The current squad has enough solid players to defend (Thiago Silva, Marquinhos, Fabinho, Casemiro) and exciting attacking talent (Paquetá, Vinicius Jr., Antony, to name three non-EPL players… Richarlison has performed well for Brazil specifically, as has Raphinha).

wokeupnew said:
#1 ranked team has never won the World Cup going in
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I know that’s technically true but FIFA rankings are trash (see: Mexico ranked ahead of Germany) and haven’t been around long enough for this stat to have any relevance.

wokeupnew said:
Getting a healthy Neymar really will be the key.
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I honestly think Neymar is more of a problem than the key to their success. Yes, he has more raw talent than anyone else, but is too hot-headed and has really underperformed as of late. You want your 30yo veteran player to be a calm and collected leader, not someone who can sabotage the entire operation. I’ll be happy to eat my words if he delivers the WC though.

Germany and France are my least-favorite teams. If Brazil doesn’t win, I’m hoping either Argentina or Portugal will go all the way (preferably Argentina because I’ve always been more of a Messi fan, and if Portugal wins then the GOAT debate will become insufferable). I’d be OK with Belgium or Holland as well, though I don’t think the Dutch have a chance tbh.
 
bettim84 said:
Yeah, we’re good enough to win it. I’m not saying that will happen, but we have a solid chance. That 1994 squad wasn’t great and wouldn’t have made it far, let alone won it all, if not for Romario.

The current squad has enough solid players to defend (Thiago Silva, Marquinhos, Fabinho, Casemiro) and exciting attacking talent (Paquetá, Vinicius Jr., Antony, to name three non-EPL players… Richarlison has performed well for Brazil specifically, as has Raphinha).



I know that’s technically true but FIFA rankings are trash (see: Mexico ranked ahead of Germany) and haven’t been around long enough for this stat to have any relevance.



I honestly think Neymar is more of a problem than the key to their success. Yes, he has more raw talent than anyone else, but is too hot-headed and has really underperformed as of late. You want your 30yo veteran player to be a calm and collected leader, not someone who can sabotage the entire operation. I’ll be happy to eat my words if he delivers the WC though.

Germany and France are my least-favorite teams. If Brazil doesn’t win, I’m hoping either Argentina or Portugal will go all the way (preferably Argentina because I’ve always been more of a Messi fan, and if Portugal wins then the GOAT debate will become insufferable). I’d be OK with Belgium or Holland as well, though I don’t think the Dutch have a chance tbh.
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I think that Messi/Ronaldo debate already is insufferable and either of them winning it will increase it. This weird loyalty to players rather than players is a really annoying part of modern football. Both are brilliant and have been a joy to watch. I have a softer spot for Ronaldo because he played, and now plays again, for united but at the end of the day I really enjoyed watching both during their goal bonanza peak years!

England would be the ultimate insufferable if they won and whisper it, they have a chance, that squad is deep in every area other than centre half. It’s also the first tournament in a while where I don’t think there is an outstanding stand out team which is why I think we’re all kind of shooting in different directions.
 
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Joe Mac said:
I think that Messi/Ronaldo debate already is insufferable and either of them winning it will increase it. This weird loyalty to players rather than players is a really annoying part of modern football. Both are brilliant and have been a joy to watch. I have a softer spot for Ronaldo because he played, not plays again, for united but at the end of the day I really enjoyed watching both during their goal bonanza peak years!

England would be the ultimate insufferable if they won and whisper it, they have a chance, that squad is deep in every area other than centre half. It’s also the first tournament in a while where I don’t think there is an outstanding stand out team which is why I think we’re all kind of shooting in different directions.
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I agree that England has a chance, and that this year is more wide open than usual. Tbf, every WC is a crapshoot. It’s such a short tournament, and the “best team” often doesn’t win (1982 Brazil, 1974 Holland, 1954 Hungary, arguably 1990 Italy, etc.).

That’s why we often see pragmatic teams win it all. Both 2010 Spain and 2018 France, for all their quality, played somewhat uninspired soccer. Spain only scored 8 goals in 7 games (!), and France somehow was leading Croatia 2-1 at halftime in the final despite having only one shot on goal (the PK that shouldn’t have been awarded; the other goal was an own goal). That 4-3 win against Argentina was a cracker, though.

England plays a rather pragmatic style and have individual quality, which historically is a winning formula (Brazil falls into the same category; for all its success this qualifying campaign, they are more often than not a boring watch). So yes, I buy England as one of the favorites.
 
bettim84 said:
I agree that England has a chance, and that this year is more wide open than usual. Tbf, every WC is a crapshoot. It’s such a short tournament, and the “best team” often doesn’t win (1982 Brazil, 1974 Holland, 1954 Hungary, arguably 1990 Italy, etc.).

That’s why we often see pragmatic teams win it all. Both 2010 Spain and 2018 France, for all their quality, played somewhat uninspired soccer. Spain only scored 8 goals in 7 games (!), and France somehow was leading Croatia 2-1 at halftime in the final despite having only one shot on goal (the PK that shouldn’t have been awarded; the other goal was an own goal). That 4-3 win against Argentina was a cracker, though.

England plays a rather pragmatic style and have individual quality, which historically is a winning formula (Brazil falls into the same category; for all its success this qualifying campaign, they are more often than not a boring watch). So yes, I buy England as one of the favorites.
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With Spain in 2010 I’m going to whisper it, for fear of being a heathen, but the extreme early 10s Barcelona tiki taka, minus Messi, is really boring to watch, a lot of it was possession for possessions sake. Even Guardiola had to evolve away from strict adherence that at Bayern and city. Given that it was also an era where the Mourinho extreme low block was in fashion for weaker teams it really did make for a terrible World Cup and the final when the Dutch abandoned all their principles and attempted to assault there way to it was a shocking watch.
 
Joe Mac said:
With Spain in 2010 I’m going to whisper it, for fear of being a heathen, but the extreme early 10s Barcelona tiki taka, minus Messi, is really boring to watch, a lot of it was possession for possessions sake. Even Guardiola had to evolve away from strict adherence that at Bayern and city. Given that it was also an era where the Mourinho extreme low block was in fashion for weaker teams it really did make for a terrible World Cup and the final when the Dutch abandoned all their principles and attempted to assault there way to it was a shocking watch.
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Agreed! In retrospect it was a dull WC. Except for the Uruguay games, which were super entertaining because Forlan was one of the only players who figured out how to take advantage of the Jabulani ball. What a weird tournament that was.
 
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