It Could Get A Bit Messi In Here - The Football Thread.

[Joe Mac]

A lot of the afters from the United/Spurs game were on how woeful United were rather than how a pieced together squad went to Old Trafford and got a point. I'm not saying I think Spurs are going to win the league, nor am I even suggesting/implying it. BUT! To have weathered a pretty insane injury/suspension crisis for as long as we have, with the likes of Bissoumsa, Sarr, VDV, Romero, Maddison, Son, Davies, Lo Celso, Solomon and Kulusevski all likely coming back over the next 2-4 weeks is pretty crazy.

I think it's entirely possible that Spurs will finish 2nd or 3rd and hang with the front of the pack (just behind) IF they can stay healthy down the stretch.

4th is a possibility. It’d take a pretty large injury crisis or collapse from Arsenal and Liverpool to finish higher. Both have stronger deeper squads and are a good way further down the evolutionary line. All things considered 4th, with the fun football would be a huge overachievement this year. Where I think spurs will fall short is space in behind the full backs. As much as they give you going forward they risk in the other direction. As poor as United are they scored twice and had a number of chances from wide, particularly in the first half. A better, more confident team could have scored more regardless of the balance of possession or patterns of play.

The way things are lining up it’s hard to bet against city, they’d had an hugely uncharacteristic start to the season and are coming into form sat in a nice position just off the top, with the league’s best player back fit, at the right time. Arsenal had a real chance to kick on over December and to stretch clear and blew it. I actually only see Liverpool even being able to keep pace.

United are just a poor team with injuries added on. They’ve been so badly miss managed at board level for nearly 20 years now whilst being bled dry that it’s hard to see a quick fix, I just hope the new investors have the strength of character to take the time to do the rebuild properly.

 

[ngower]

4th is a possibility. It’d take a pretty large injury crisis or collapse from Arsenal and Liverpool to finish higher. Both have stronger deeper squads and are a good way further down the evolutionary line. All things considered 4th, with the fun football would be a huge overachievement this year. Where I think spurs will fall short is space in behind the full backs. As much as they give you going forward they risk in the other direction. As poor as United are they scored twice and had a number of chances from wide, particularly in the first half. A better, more confident team could have scored more regardless of the balance of possession or patterns of play.

The way things are lining up it’s hard to bet against city, they’d had an hugely uncharacteristic start to the season and are coming into form sat in a nice position just off the top, with the league’s best player back fit, at the right time. Arsenal had a real chance to kick on over December and to stretch clear and blew it. I actually only see Liverpool even being able to keep pace.

United are just a poor team with injuries added on. They’ve been so badly miss managed at board level for nearly 20 years now whilst being bled dry that it’s hard to see a quick fix, I just hope the new investors have the strength of character to take the time to do the rebuild properly.

This is my point though: Spurs have stuck with the pack while playing Ben Davies at LCB and Emerson Royal at RCB. Their starting CBs are coming healthy again (first time our first choice back line played since the Chelsea game), Dragusin brought in as cover so it's unlikely VDV blows his hamstrings again, Maddison is due back in a game or two. Maddison is statistically one of the most prolific players over the past few seasons in the PL and I think folks are forgetting just how dominant he was to start the year. A front four of Son, Richy, Kulusevski, Maddison with Werner and Johnson off the bench is pretty stacked. Go take a peek at the bench for the last few games and it's pretty much all academy kids. We're basically set to do what Liverpool did a few seasons ago where everyone was hurt then they surged int he second half of the season.

Throw in that we don't have the European games that Villa, Arsenal, City, Liverpool do and it makes a Spurs push all the more likely.

My top five prediction is: City, Liverpool, Tottenham, Villa, Arsenal. It'll be fairly congested among those five too, no blowout win for City like in years past.

 

[wokeupnew]

This is my point though: Spurs have stuck with the pack while playing Ben Davies at LCB and Emerson Royal at RCB. Their starting CBs are coming healthy again (first time our first choice back line played since the Chelsea game), Dragusin brought in as cover so it's unlikely VDV blows his hamstrings again, Maddison is due back in a game or two. Maddison is statistically one of the most prolific players over the past few seasons in the PL and I think folks are forgetting just how dominant he was to start the year. A front four of Son, Richy, Kulusevski, Maddison with Werner and Johnson off the bench is pretty stacked. Go take a peek at the bench for the last few games and it's pretty much all academy kids. We're basically set to do what Liverpool did a few seasons ago where everyone was hurt then they surged int he second half of the season.

Throw in that we don't have the European games that Villa, Arsenal, City, Liverpool do and it makes a Spurs push all the more likely.

My top five prediction is: City, Liverpool, Tottenham, Villa, Arsenal. It'll be fairly congested among those five too, no blowout win for City like in years past.

yeah... I know it's a little delusional to think Spurs can really run for the title, but like you said, look how well they've played when everyone was fully fit at the beginning of the year. With the injuries and absences that have happened they're still right there level on points with Arsenal. Imagine if Liverpool lost TAA, VVD, Salah, or Arsenal without Saliba, Odegaard, or Saka. That's basically what had happened with Spurs and their injuries/suspensions at various points. They'd all suffer in some way, possibly fare worse than Spurs did with those absences. Tottenham should not still be in contention with what happened.

Your prediction is spot on for what seems most realistic. I think Villa fall off a little bit and Arsenal grab 4th (or 3rd if Spurs get 4th). I just don't think they have the staying power. But they'll likely win ECL and/or get 5th comfortably which would be an excellent season. Arsenal probably focus too much on the CL and don't look they're going to make any huge signings this month to help them in the league.

 

[Joe Mac]

This is my point though: Spurs have stuck with the pack while playing Ben Davies at LCB and Emerson Royal at RCB. Their starting CBs are coming healthy again (first time our first choice back line played since the Chelsea game), Dragusin brought in as cover so it's unlikely VDV blows his hamstrings again, Maddison is due back in a game or two. Maddison is statistically one of the most prolific players over the past few seasons in the PL and I think folks are forgetting just how dominant he was to start the year. A front four of Son, Richy, Kulusevski, Maddison with Werner and Johnson off the bench is pretty stacked. Go take a peek at the bench for the last few games and it's pretty much all academy kids. We're basically set to do what Liverpool did a few seasons ago where everyone was hurt then they surged int he second half of the season.

Throw in that we don't have the European games that Villa, Arsenal, City, Liverpool do and it makes a Spurs push all the more likely.

My top five prediction is: City, Liverpool, Tottenham, Villa, Arsenal. It'll be fairly congested among those five too, no blowout win for City like in years past.

The counter to that is a lack of experience at the sharp end and very thin squad under the XI.

I also really have concerns about how many chances you give the opposition in games, particularly if they have a quick inverted winger/wide forward. You’ll drop points because of it at the sharp end against the teams that defend better.

Spurs have been a revelation this season absolutely but i struggle to seem them above 4-6. My money would be: 1. city; 2. Liverpool; 3. Arsenal; 4. Villa or Spurs; 5. The other one and 6. Barcodes. None of that is criticism btw, even 6th given the team Postecoglu took over and football you’ve been playing would be an enormous achievement to build on with transfers and a full pre season next summer.

 

[wokeupnew]

The counter to that is a lack of experience at the sharp end and very thin squad under the XI.

I also really have concerns about how many chances you give the opposition in games, particularly if they have a quick inverted winger/wide forward. You’ll drop points because of it at the sharp end against the teams that defend better.

Spurs have been a revelation this season absolutely but i struggle to seem them above 4-6. My money would be: 1. city; 2. Liverpool; 3. Arsenal; 4. Villa or Spurs; 5. The other one and 6. Barcodes. None of that is criticism btw, even 6th given the team Postecoglu took over and football you’ve been playing would be an enormous achievement to build on with transfers and a full pre season next summer.

Barcodes at 6th!? Have you seen their form/where they are in the table? I think they finish 8th or 9th

 

[Joe Mac]

Barcodes at 6th!? Have you seen their form/where they are in the table? I think they finish 8th or 9th

Who comes above them though? Us? Nah! Hammers? Bit inconsistent. Brighton? same. Chelsea? Maybe with a wind behind them.

They’ve gone through essentially the most congested period of the season with in effect 11 fit first team players and despite results have played ok, they pushed city to the very end last week. I like their squad and I like their manager, with less games and players returning I can see it.

 

[wokeupnew]

Who comes above them though? Us? Nah! Hammers? Bit inconsistent. Brighton? same. Chelsea? Maybe with a wind behind them.

They’ve gone through essentially the most congested period of the season with in effect 11 fit first team players and despite results have played ok, they pushed city to the very end last week. I like their squad and I like their manager, with less games and players returning I can see it.

yes to all 4

 

[Joe Mac]

yes to all 4

I think fundamentally they are a better team than them all, albeit one that’s been decimated by injuries. A few of those back and one game a week will make a huge difference.

Our only hope really is Casemiro and Martinez improving us at the back enough to allow us to start nicking games again like last year. I’m not hopeful though. De Zebri has gone a bit mad with the rotation at Brighton this year and they’ve suffered with consistency. West Ham are really the embodiment of a cup team, can beat anyone on their day but aren’t consistent enough in the league. Chelsea perhaps. I know they’ve been a basket case for 18 month now but there’s a strong squad there and they have played decent stuff this season, they just don’t score enough.

 

[ngower]

The counter to that is a lack of experience at the sharp end and very thin squad under the XI.

I also really have concerns about how many chances you give the opposition in games, particularly if they have a quick inverted winger/wide forward. You’ll drop points because of it at the sharp end against the teams that defend better.

Spurs have been a revelation this season absolutely but i struggle to seem them above 4-6. My money would be: 1. city; 2. Liverpool; 3. Arsenal; 4. Villa or Spurs; 5. The other one and 6. Barcodes. None of that is criticism btw, even 6th given the team Postecoglu took over and football you’ve been playing would be an enormous achievement to build on with transfers and a full pre season next summer.

That's the thing: VDV's pace offsets those chances. Romero's positioning offsets those chances. It doesn't hurt as much with our top choice defensive duo. And when they do give up chances, they have (arguably) the best keeper in the league this season to make good.

The issue this season has really been finishing chances more than allowing goals. Our defense has been mostly fine, with the Brighton and Chelsea games padding the goals against stat considerably.

We'll see come season's end, but Spurs haven't been remotely close to full strength for like two months and are just now starting to get the pieces to come back. The fact that they're 5 points off top and about to get a huge injection of talent should be more of a talking point among the pundits.

 

[Joe Mac]

That's the thing: VDV's pace offsets those chances. Romero's positioning offsets those chances. It doesn't hurt as much with our top choice defensive duo. And when they do give up chances, they have (arguably) the best keeper in the league this season to make good.

The issue this season has really been finishing chances more than allowing goals. Our defense has been mostly fine, with the Brighton and Chelsea games padding the goals against stat considerably.

We'll see come season's end, but Spurs haven't been remotely close to full strength for like two months and are just now starting to get the pieces to come back. The fact that they're 5 points off top and about to get a huge injection of talent should be more of a talking point among the pundits.

Those two played on Sunday and Rashford had the run of the left wing. In the first half a poor United side opened you up at will down there.

I’m not trying to criticise spurs, they’re miles ahead of where they should be right now but I can’t see how anything above 4th is realistically possible this season, you need more to fight the big battle hardened teams at the very top.

 

[ngower]

Those two played on Sunday and Rashford had the run of the left wing. In the first half a poor United side opened you up at will down there.

I’m not trying to criticise spurs, they’re miles ahead of where they should be right now but I can’t see how anything above 4th is realistically possible this season, you need more to fight the big battle hardened teams at the very top.

It was VDV's first game in two months and Romero's first in a month, with Romero rushing back to fitness to help the team. It's entirely unfair to extrapolate much from that game for those two. We brought on Dragsin to act as a 3rd CB (first time we've done that all year) to help see the result over the line.

 

[Joe Mac]

It was VDV's first game in two months and Romero's first in a month, with Romero rushing back to fitness to help the team. It's entirely unfair to extrapolate much from that game for those two. We brought on Dragsin to act as a 3rd CB (first time we've done that all year) to help see the result over the line.

Honestly I’ve been hugely impressed by Spurs all year but that and a high early press on the full backs when they invert are two weaknesses I’ve seen all season regardless of personel. I also don’t see that there is the depth in the squad to take on two serial winners and a club that reinforced its spine so well in the summer.

Again not criticism, you’re playing well, I just think a title challenge is a bit of an ask at this stage in your evolution.

 

[ngower]

Honestly I’ve been hugely impressed by Spurs all year but that and a high early press on the full backs when they invert are two weaknesses I’ve seen all season regardless of personel. I also don’t see that there is the depth in the squad to take on two serial winners and a club that reinforced its spine so well in the summer.

Again not criticism, you’re playing well, I just think a title challenge is a bit of an ask at this stage in your evolution.

The high press is our strength. It suffocates teams into coughing up possession easily. We dominate possession stats for that reason. And with actual depth to come off the bench, it means this press can go full out without dropping off in quality around the hour mark as it has done for the last month or two. It's why a ton of our goals are conceded in the final 10 or so minutes of a half when we have to bring on the kids. We had eight players on the bench against United: two keepers, a player who had two training sessions, three academy kids, Bryan Gil and Emerson Royal. This squad's run ragged right now and the injection of new blood and returning players is big.

I don't understand why you are arguing against a point I don't think anyone is making (title challenge). My point, rehashed for clarity, is simply that Spurs will be right up there with the title pack for the remainder of the season and it's kind wild that folks continue to qualify their year as a "it'll collapse any minute now."

 

[Joe Mac]

The high press is our strength. It suffocates teams into coughing up possession easily. We dominate possession stats for that reason. And with actual depth to come off the bench, it means this press can go full out without dropping off in quality around the hour mark as it has done for the last month or two. It's why a ton of our goals are conceded in the final 10 or so minutes of a half when we have to bring on the kids. We had eight players on the bench against United: two keepers, a player who had two training sessions, three academy kids, Bryan Gil and Emerson Royal. This squad's run ragged right now and the injection of new blood and returning players is big.

I don't understand why you are arguing against a point I don't think anyone is making (title challenge). My point, rehashed for clarity, is simply that Spurs will be right up there with the title pack for the remainder of the season and it's kind wild that folks continue to qualify their year as a "it'll collapse any minute now."

No you misunderstood me. When your full backs invert early and are pressed by a good, co-ordinated early high press they are susceptible to cough the ball up. Nothing to do with your own high press which I agree with you on.

I’m not saying you will collapse just that you won’t be challenging and that’s what you’re doing if you keep pace points wise with the top 3. I see you doing really well in the remainder of the season, I’m just cognisant that in the last half of a season the most points city have dropped in the previous 6 seasons is 11. In the years Liverpool have been on it they’ve gone toe to toe and they’re on it this year. Arsenal haven’t sparked going forward this season, and that’s what’s costing them, but their players are too good for that to continue indefinitely and their spine is very strong and that will grind them results.

You will do well, you will play good football, get a similar amount of points as the first half of the season, you’ll finish 4th or 5th 15-20 points off the champions. That’s a huge achievement given where you’ve come from and it in no way suggests a collapse.

 

[LiamGallaghersBucketHat]

 

[tvham]

As a Spurs fan I would be ecstatic if we finish top 4, I don't care what place!

 

[wokeupnew]

I don't understand why you are arguing against a point I don't think anyone is making (title challenge). My point, rehashed for clarity, is simply that Spurs will be right up there with the title pack for the remainder of the season and it's kind wild that folks continue to qualify their year as a "it'll collapse any minute now."

tbf, I had stated that I think Spurs can still challenge for the title. It's not outside of the realm of possibility 5 pts back with the business end of the season left. But we need to have a lot go our way with results and luck for the rest of the season.

 

[Joe Mac]

tbf, I had stated that I think Spurs can still challenge for the title. It's not outside of the realm of possibility 5 pts back with the business end of the season left. But we need to have a lot go our way with results and luck for the rest of the season.

I think you probably need city and Liverpool to drop off from previous seasons too. If they do their usual long hard sprint to the line you can’t with your squad depth and experience levels and that’s probably why I see things the way I do. An old school 78/79/80 point title win, then yeah you could potentially be there for sure. City do look ominous though with KDB and T-800 coming back fresh for the run in.

I do like these debates and differences of opinion though, its interesting to hear other people’s takes and pit yours against them.

 

[wokeupnew]

I think you probably need city and Liverpool to drop off from previous seasons too. If they do their usual long hard sprint to the line you can’t with your squad depth and experience levels and that’s probably why I see things the way I do. An old school 78/79/80 point title win, then yeah you could potentially be there for sure. City do look ominous though with KDB and T-800 coming back fresh for the run in.

I do like these debates and differences of opinion though, its interesting to hear other people’s takes and pit yours against them.

Need to beat City at home and Need to beat Liverpool away which will be very, very difficult. Spurs have fared significantly well against the Top 6 this season compared to last season however. Our results vs. the top 6 have historically been horrible. Lost every single game away from home last season. Under Conte, Poch, Jose, Nuno, all crap. But Ange is different.

This is from r/coys that someone updates after each result. We don't fare well against mid-table~ this season.

 

[ngower]

I think you probably need city and Liverpool to drop off from previous seasons too. If they do their usual long hard sprint to the line you can’t with your squad depth and experience levels and that’s probably why I see things the way I do. An old school 78/79/80 point title win, then yeah you could potentially be there for sure. City do look ominous though with KDB and T-800 coming back fresh for the run in.

I do like these debates and differences of opinion though, its interesting to hear other people’s takes and pit yours against them.

Maddison had 19 goal contributions (with a team that got relegated) in 30 matches last season. KDB had 24 in 32 matches with the title winning team.

I think you can't bring up KDB without also saying how much Maddison returning is going to elevate Spurs.

In theory, Spurs 18 could be: Vicario, Udogie, VDV, Romero, Porro, Bentancur, Sarr, Maddison, Werner, Son, Kulusevski with a bench of Richarlison, Johnson, Bissouma, Dragusin, Royal, PEH, Lo Celso. That's more than competent enough to keep pace with the big boys, especially without the need to roate squad among too many cup competitions. Also worth mentioning that Spurs still have to host Arsenal and City, and those games tend to go Spurs' way. Even four points from those fixtures likely plops Spurs up into top 3.