Jazz

Andy said:
Just watched the video

He's talking about the German guy on 45 RPM, sounds like he has a bit of a beef with him tbh. He puts on a dodgy German accent.

Watching his videos over lockdown I think this is more of a misunderstanding. The German guy is not talking generally just about jazz & has been collecting records for decades but found as he got older wasn't listening to them and sold off a massive electronic based collection with a view to getting a broader collection. His early videos were about selling off his old collection and getting different musical styles in audiophile quality, because he was blown away with some the titles.

He has basically bought loads of audiophile records over the past few years while in lockdown. Ken is a Jazz aficionado, the other guy primarily buys electronic avant grade music (not audiophile) & then shit loads of audiophile titles because he has the money. You ask a guy who's channel is called 45 rpm what records he would recommend, he's probably going to say get the 45 rpm one. He doesn't have the knowledge that a lot of people on this site do (neither do I), especially with Jazz.

edit - Also ZYX did some good sounding releases in the 90's as did GZ, but good list of labels to avoid

having said all that, I think it's a really interesting topic.
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Portland Sheriff said:
Points well taken on the fact that ignoring non-audiophile labels is problematic for several reasons. Ken’s taken a couple shots at the YouTuber you’re talking about (45rpmAudiophile), as has The Jazz Shepherd. I watch all 3 of those channels — and I enjoy all of them for different reasons.

However, their criticisms come off (to me) as childish and petty, bc they don’t like his style (he merely shows his collection without giving substantive reviews), and, I think, are envious of his much larger subscriber numbers. But that’s what he wants to do, and many people enjoy it (including me). And he’s turned me on to several amazing electronic releases I would not have known about by Nicholas Jaar, Darkside, Thomas Fehlmann, and, in the jazz realm, I think he’s the reason I have “Ron Jefferson Choir” and “Glass Bead Games.”

More to Ken’s comment about limiting acquisitions to audiophile labels: I think 45rpmAudiophile said (or was trying to say) is merely that audiophile labels come w/ a relative guarantee of quality. In contrast, at least w/ regard to older presses, he has said what is true: they can be incredibly expensive compared to a Tone Poet, BN80, BN Classic, Impex, SC, AP, etc. and, even with those high prices, can be a minefield when it comes to grading and quality.

Also, fwiw, 45rpmaudiophile has been collecting records for more than a year. His YouTube channel has been up for about a year, and he’s garnered a very large audience
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Great points in both of these.

I am familiar with the 45 RPM guy and have watched a fair few of his videos (recent stuff) as I have with Kens. They clearly have different approaches when it comes to their videos, and I see them as Ken typically focusing on LP's from a musical content perspective (I believe he was a jazz drummer for several years) compared with 45 RPM's pressing/mastering quality. They both scratch different itches.

I have no hat in this game, but it definitely links to views that I have had lately. I think FOMO plays a lot into these audiophile reissues which 'standard' reissues are able to typically avoid. To an extent that is why I find the Tone Poets to be so great as there isn't a real limit to them (even the OOP ones are going to be repressed at some point) whilst still holding their audiophile status. I think that if I was limited to audiophile only I would probably call it quits, the mad rush to order a limited release that everyone knows will sell out isn't a fun aspect to me. I did see a video from the Youtuber Mazzy whereby he ordered the Yusef Lateef One-Step and ended up sending it to the 45RPM guy because he missed the order before it sold out and didn't want a gap in the series. That's an amazing gesture but also highlights this 'need' amongst certain people to collect every single release within a series (I got the impression that the title itself didn't matter, just that there would be a gap), and at that point, we move away from the music and start viewing them as collectable items only.
 
Selaws said:
I have no hat in this game,
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I hope i didn’t give the impression that I thought you did!

Selaws said:
I did see a video from the Youtuber Mazzy whereby he ordered the Yusef Lateef One-Step and ended up sending it to the 45RPM guy because he missed the order before it sold out and didn't want a gap in the series. That's an amazing gesture but also highlights this 'need' amongst certain people to collect every single release within a series (I got the impression that the title itself didn't matter, just that there would be a gap), and at that point, we move away from the music and start viewing them as collectable items only.
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Undoubtedly, 45rpmaudiophile wants complete collections, without regard to the music. I’m not saying he doesn’t genuinely like all/most of the music, but I also think he’d buy an audiophile release for an album he doesn’t like merely to keep his collection ”complete.” He appears to have enough money to buy a record label, so it’s interesting he didn’t just buy Lateef on the open market.
 
Selaws said:
Great points in both of these.

I am familiar with the 45 RPM guy and have watched a fair few of his videos (recent stuff) as I have with Kens. They clearly have different approaches when it comes to their videos, and I see them as Ken typically focusing on LP's from a musical content perspective (I believe he was a jazz drummer for several years) compared with 45 RPM's pressing/mastering quality. They both scratch different itches.

I have no hat in this game, but it definitely links to views that I have had lately. I think FOMO plays a lot into these audiophile reissues which 'standard' reissues are able to typically avoid. To an extent that is why I find the Tone Poets to be so great as there isn't a real limit to them (even the OOP ones are going to be repressed at some point) whilst still holding their audiophile status. I think that if I was limited to audiophile only I would probably call it quits, the mad rush to order a limited release that everyone knows will sell out isn't a fun aspect to me. I did see a video from the Youtuber Mazzy whereby he ordered the Yusef Lateef One-Step and ended up sending it to the 45RPM guy because he missed the order before it sold out and didn't want a gap in the series. That's an amazing gesture but also highlights this 'need' amongst certain people to collect every single release within a series (I got the impression that the title itself didn't matter, just that there would be a gap), and at that point, we move away from the music and start viewing them as collectable items only.
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Thats the collecting thing which I never really understood (although I do have nearly all the tone poets). I have a collection of music first and foremost that I can explore & will continue to delight & surprise me as my musical tastes change, but a lot collect for the objects, this is just as big a thing with the coloured vinyl collections. I honestly don't understand why someone would pay more for a coloured vinyl version of the same pressing.
 
Btw, The Jazz Shepherd is like the opposite of 45rpmaudiophile. His jazz record collection is unbelievable— across multiple decades and many labels, mostly either OG 1st presses or an alternative close to it. I’m guessing he doesn’t have a single audiophile reissue.

Edit: but he’s also summarily (and ridiculously) dismissive of modern jazz, seemingly from about the 1980s onward.
 
Portland Sheriff said:
I hope i didn’t give the impression that I thought you did!


Undoubtedly, 45rpmaudiophile wants complete collections, without regard to the music. I’m not saying he doesn’t genuinely like all/most of the music, but I also think he’d buy an audiophile release for an album he doesn’t like merely to keep his collection ”complete.” He appears to have enough money to buy a record label, so it’s interesting he didn’t just buy Lateef on the open market.
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Not at all! I just wanted to make it clear haha. It's a really decisive topic really. I love the Definitive thread because one minute we will be talking about the latest limited audiophile release and the next it will be a cheap reissue that's readily available AND sound fantastic.
Andy said:
Thats the collecting thing which I never really understood (although I do have nearly all the tone poets). I have a collection of music first and foremost that I can explore & will continue to delight & surprise me as my musical tastes change, but a lot collect for the objects, this is just as big a thing with the coloured vinyl collections. I honestly don't understand why someone would pay more for a coloured vinyl version of the same pressing.
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Same here! When im exploring a series that im not completley familiar with then I tend to try and get all of them - I can only think of the Jazz Is Dead series as they are numbered 1-8 and I get them for the purpose of exploring the musicians that typically are unfamiliar to me. I would love to get all of the Tone Poets as well and have a large amount of them but when they release a title that I already have another copy of that I'm happy with (The Cooker, Money Jungle, The Waiting Game) then I just skip them. No need to double up for the sake of it being complete.
 
Portland Sheriff said:
Btw, The Jazz Shepherd is like the opposite of 45rpmaudiophile. His jazz record collection is unbelievable— across multiple decades and many labels, mostly either OG 1st presses or an alternative close to it. I’m guessing he doesn’t have a single audiophile reissue.

Edit: but he’s also summarily (and ridiculously) dismissive of modern jazz, seemingly from about the 1980s onward.
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I have watched a handful of his videos and will get around to watching more. Like you say, an incredible collection that from what I have seen is a real mix of originals, later pressings, etc. I dont think I have seen a modern audiophile release/reissue from him yet.

I think the genre, in general, tends to attract people with die-hard views when in reality you can learn a lot more just by being open. I wasn't a fan of big band stuff at all for quite a while and basically blanked it. I started listening to a few recommendations on here (@Mr Moore even gave me a fantastic deal on the Gil Evans Orchestra - New Bottle Old Wine) and now I really enjoy it. I soon realised that I was listening to the 'wrong' sort of big band music for my taste and also wasn't being open to the nuances and group dynamics that it offers.
 
Andy said:
You have some amazing OG titles, definitely no need to double up there.
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Cheers!

It's also the case that theres soooo much music I want to hear and explore so why would I double up when I can use that money for more music? In those 3 that I gave examples for I have an OG The Cooker (sounds amazing so no need for another), the DeAgostini Money Jungle (probably a downgrade compared with the TP but it's not a title that I play enough to warrant spending more on it again), and the Mosaic Box that includes The Waiting Game (again, the TP might sound better but im more than happy with this).
 
Cross posting this one for those who didn't see it...

Amazon product ASIN B000000YIS
Just got this one in the mail. It's quite a steal. Pressed at RTI--flat, quiet and sounds awesome. This seems to be the corresponding discogs entry as found by @Russ I

www.discogs.com

Art Pepper - Art Pepper Meets The Rhythm Section

View credits, reviews, tracks and shop for the Vinyl release of "Art Pepper Meets The Rhythm Section" on Discogs.
www.discogs.com www.discogs.com
 
Andy said:
Wow. I looked for that for a little while, it was when I was starting to get into Audiophile pressings. I got the 33 version, very surprised to see what they are selling for now. Great Album.

and this one:

www.discogs.com

Freddie Hubbard - Straight Life

View credits, reviews, tracks and shop for the 2016 Vinyl release of "Straight Life" on Discogs.
www.discogs.com www.discogs.com
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I got Straight Life and First Light through Insound (RIP!!!) for maybe $10 a piece :LOL: I’ve since gotten rid of First Light. The title track is fantastic but I just could not get into the rest of that album. I do miss the regular sales from Insound though. I got a lot of great stuff from them.
 
mitchwagz said:
I got Straight Life and First Light through Insound (RIP!!!) for maybe $10 a piece :LOL: I’ve since gotten rid of First Light. The title track is fantastic but I just could not get into the rest of that album. I do miss the regular sales from Insound though. I got a lot of great stuff from them.
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Wow. Forgot about insound. My buddy worked there or next to their warehouse and always got free or cheap stuff because he made friends there and was a big music fan. Their sales were crazy!
 
Selaws said:
Cheers!

It's also the case that theres soooo much music I want to hear and explore so why would I double up when I can use that money for more music? In those 3 that I gave examples for I have an OG The Cooker (sounds amazing so no need for another), the DeAgostini Money Jungle (probably a downgrade compared with the TP but it's not a title that I play enough to warrant spending more on it again), and the Mosaic Box that includes The Waiting Game (again, the TP might sound better but im more than happy with this).
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!00% agree. Even after so long, there is so much great music coming out and obscurities being revived for a second look. Why keep chasing after the latest, greatest Kind of Blue when there is so much more to discover?

I just don't understand these YouTube obsessives who are just buying so they can feed their OCD and get validation for their illness/need to boast through the number of clicks they get.
 
RHANDMJ said:
!00% agree. Even after so long, there is so much great music coming out and obscurities being revived for a second look. Why keep chasing after the latest, greatest Kind of Blue when there is so much more to discover?

I just don't understand these YouTube obsessives who are just buying so they can feed their OCD and get validation for their illness/need to boast through the number of clicks they get.
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Gotta have content to generate that passive income!
 
mitchwagz said:
To be fair, the Tone Poet does actually sound better than the OG mono pressing. I had one for a long while before selling it when the TP came out.
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I actually have an OG, but it’s quite noisy. Not an issue for the most part but it does affect my enjoyment of the quieter tracks.
 
I saw Nat Birchall live at Cafe Oto in Dalston, London last night.

It was a hell of a show and Nat had an incredible set of side-men, honestly one of the best groups I have seen. I was lucky enough to have front row seats (Cafe Oto is tiny anyway) and was able to have a long chat with Nat (about lockdown life and how he has been writing and recording to keep himself busy) and he even signed a few records for me.

IMG_8017.JPGIMG_8018.JPG
IMG_8040.jpg
 
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