Woob_woob
Well-Known Member
He did just donate a million dollars to a prison reform charity.
Idk, imo this Kanye is the same as every version of Kanye that came before him, an extremely flawed and interesting human being.
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Kanye
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Idk, imo this Kanye is the same as every version of Kanye that came before him, an extremely flawed and interesting human being.
Bull Shannon
Well-Known Member
I think it's very telling that many who enjoy the album are citing the religious angle as being the reason people must not like it, which is a very "you didn't like the movie because you didn't understand it" line of reasoning.
This does tap into something that's been bothering me about Kanye for the last few albums on an increasing level since Yeezus. I initially connected with his music because his lyrics were rather honest; he often fronted, but would present himself as a real person, warts and all. Since he got married, a lot of his verses about sex seemed...off. Like was I to expect that he was in an open relationship, or was he simply rapping about wild sex because that's what's expected of him? It's just added this overal patina of insincerity that makes a lot of what he's saying on and off mic hard to take seriously.
This does tap into something that's been bothering me about Kanye for the last few albums on an increasing level since Yeezus. I initially connected with his music because his lyrics were rather honest; he often fronted, but would present himself as a real person, warts and all. Since he got married, a lot of his verses about sex seemed...off. Like was I to expect that he was in an open relationship, or was he simply rapping about wild sex because that's what's expected of him? It's just added this overal patina of insincerity that makes a lot of what he's saying on and off mic hard to take seriously.
Benhawaii
Active Member
the way that works when you're rich is simple, but shady.
you owe the government x amount of tax at the end of the year. your financiual advisor / managers all come to you with ideas to use charitable donations as a way to pay that instead of tax and lowering your bracket too. not saying giving money away isnt great; and thats a very need cause. my feeling with ye is that he always has to do it in the public eye or be recognized. dude just comes off insecure as hell to me.
and lets be super real here - there are way better mc's and lyricists out there with less baggage, much culture, and haven't slipped up as many times that dont go media fucking just for the hell of it. hes obviously got some mental health issues - i just would prefer to know that ye being aware of who he is (and thinks more of himself than probably anyone on the planet based on his quotes) hed embrace that side and try to be a hero for many who suffer in silence.
if youre mega rich and famous, you have a platform man. and if you want history to remember you well you should damn well use it well most of the time. trying me best to seperate the great music from the awkwardly douchy guy that seems to be the black version of trump.
you owe the government x amount of tax at the end of the year. your financiual advisor / managers all come to you with ideas to use charitable donations as a way to pay that instead of tax and lowering your bracket too. not saying giving money away isnt great; and thats a very need cause. my feeling with ye is that he always has to do it in the public eye or be recognized. dude just comes off insecure as hell to me.
and lets be super real here - there are way better mc's and lyricists out there with less baggage, much culture, and haven't slipped up as many times that dont go media fucking just for the hell of it. hes obviously got some mental health issues - i just would prefer to know that ye being aware of who he is (and thinks more of himself than probably anyone on the planet based on his quotes) hed embrace that side and try to be a hero for many who suffer in silence.
if youre mega rich and famous, you have a platform man. and if you want history to remember you well you should damn well use it well most of the time. trying me best to seperate the great music from the awkwardly douchy guy that seems to be the black version of trump.
I think it’s more that the music is inarguably excellent and the lyrics aren’t. No snobbery needed. People are blaming the religiousness for that but it’s really just lazy lyricism regardless of topic. Anyone here the Yandhi leak? The lyrics aren’t religious and are just as poor.
So for me anyway, it’s what do you value more from music, the music or the lyrics? If lyrics are your thing, this one isn’t for you, religious or not.
Tillman
Well-Known Member
I don't know, I would argue that the music/beats overall aren't excellent. I mean some are definitely excellent, but some are definitely not.
Oh yeah? Which ones? For me everything is sonically pleasing aside from the chick- fil- a scream at the end of that song, and his horrible singing on God Is. The rest is top notch, aside from the aforementioned lyrical content. But I still like his voice and delivery, which helps me to be more forgiving of the vocals in general.
Tillman
Well-Known Member
On God, Water, and Hands On to name a few. it's not like the whole thing is hot garbage, but for me the beats on JIK do less to make up for Kanye's shortcomings than other albums.
I suppose to really get to the meat of it I don't just think the lyrics are the only problem with JIK. though I would say that I think the lyrics aren't as bad as those who complain about the lyrics and the beats aren't as great as those who point to them as a saving grace. it's an interesting album that fans should enjoy, but it's not a great album from a great artist and there's nothing wrong with that, if nothing else there's certainly a lot to kick around and discuss with this album.
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Chucktshoes
Well-Known Member
I dug it.
Nee Lewman
बैस्टर्ड
It’s a dual edged blade though. I don’t think people would be talking this much about this one if he wasn’t out there with the antics. I’m just curious when the feedback loop will end. In my opinion he hasn’t done anything interesting since Pablo and his persona has become more and more indigestible. I gave Jesus is King a listen, it did not seem memorable to me in anyway. A step back beat wise and superficial at best lyric wise.
wmeugene
Well-Known Member
For me this is interesting to read because I think the biggest flaws of this album and most of his recent work has been half-sketched half-ideas that lack the creative spark of his first five albums. The subject matter could have really revitalized him, but it just became surface level cliches. I think Yeezus was really good, but started showing cracks. Even more so for Pablo, which I found very uneven.
I know that it's probably lame music critic comparisons, but this feels like Neil Young in the early 80s and Jesus Is King is his Everybody's Rockin. To go from MBDTF to this in 9 years is definitely one of the stories of the decade.
I know that it's probably lame music critic comparisons, but this feels like Neil Young in the early 80s and Jesus Is King is his Everybody's Rockin. To go from MBDTF to this in 9 years is definitely one of the stories of the decade.
Woob_woob
Well-Known Member
But what artists are still making masterpieces almost a decade after their best work? Kanye is on the back side of his career and I just find it silly to expect him to still be making masterpieces. At this point in Kanyes career I'm looking for decent albums with a few songs to add to the legacy and this album succeeds there. Comparing this to Young in the 80s makes sense because both artists are in their early 40s and have been making music for 20+ years at that point and it's rare for those cases to make masterpieces. If you're comparing JIK to MBDTF you're bound to be disappointed, but that doesnt mean that there isnt enjoyable stuff on JIK.
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BjorgenFjorgen
Well-Known Member
That's fair. Dylan is the only one I can think of off the top of my head.
Woob_woob
Well-Known Member
And even he went through a phase where he was putting out alot of sub optimal albums before his two later in life hits. Bowie also came back with a great album later in life, so it's not impossible, and I'm not saying Kanye will never make another great album, but to go into his work in this stage of his career expecting greatness is just setting yourself up for disappointment.
djdavedk
Well-Known Member
How does that stack up against the yearly billions of dollars connected to the private prison industry?
The United States has the world’s largest private prison population – The Sentencing Project
The United States has the world’s largest private prison population.
The Prison Industry in the United States: Big Business or a New Form of Slavery? - Global Research
This incisive and carefully researched article was first published by Global Research more than 15 years ago in March 2008. *** Things have got worse since 2008. African-Americans and Latinos are routinely the victims of arbitrary arrest, incarceration and inhumane exploitation in America’s...
www.globalresearch.ca
Woob_woob
Well-Known Member
You cant ask if hes giving money to charity on the one hand and then on the other discount it because he can use it as a tax write off. Hes putting his money towards a fantastic cause that him and his wife believe in strongly and that should be commended regardless of the tax write off.
Nobody is claiming Kanye is the greatest MC either (well, except for Kanye) and the vast majority of his "baggage" is superficial stuff like ego that wont hurt his legacy because it has very little to do with the actual art
jaycee
Well-Known Member
100% agree.
Jesus is a helluva drug for a lot of people and maybe that drug is more of an influence now than it used to be. I've read some of the posts about him here and elsewhere and it strikes me how much we (myself included) are willing to remotely diagnose Kanye, and then use that diagnosis to define him and as an excuse for or to judge his dumb opinions simultaneously with the perceived quality of his music.
I'm sure we all listen to a lot of artists who are real assholes in the real world, but we know a lot less about the shitty things they do. I mean we all know that Bowie had sex with under-aged girls and that Dylan is an ego-maniac, and that James Brown smoked crack, beat his wife, and supported Nixon. John Lennon was a controlling, domestic-abuser, and we all mostly ignore that shit. Yes, Kanye's behavior is very of the moment, but how will we view it in 20 or 30 years?
People want Kanye to be the guy that made College Dropout, and the guy the evolved to make 808's and MBDTF, and the guy that evolved to make Yeezus. They also want him to represent their politics and not be a rich-guy asshole. It's kind-of strange to expect him to be all of those things at once but somehow he is. It's just a lot to expect...I'm not defending him or any of those other people.
I wonder if some folks would feel differently about this album if he just called it Yeezus is King? Making it about a mostly fairy-tale figure, and i have no idea if this is intentional or not, is very on the nose.
Note: I have no opinions about the quality of this album. I might listen to it at some point but it's way down the list for me.
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Woob_woob
Well-Known Member
One person isnt going to bring down a corrupt system by theirselves, and I'm not going to minimize a million dollar donation to help the people that are working hard to bring down the corrupt system.How does that stack up against the yearly billions of dollars connected to the private prison industry?
The United States has the world’s largest private prison population – The Sentencing Project
The United States has the world’s largest private prison population.www.sentencingproject.org
The Prison Industry in the United States: Big Business or a New Form of Slavery? - Global Research
This incisive and carefully researched article was first published by Global Research more than 15 years ago in March 2008. *** Things have got worse since 2008. African-Americans and Latinos are routinely the victims of arbitrary arrest, incarceration and inhumane exploitation in America’s...
Benhawaii
Active Member
unfortunately i have a lot of insight into this particular situation. ive met and tattooed tons of wealthy, celebs, athletes, etc. im not saying that their motives aren't in the right place. what i am saying is that many of them use it as a tax shelter and when going very publicly about it use it as a card to show "here i'm doing this so i'm good" type of persona. ive also had the pleasure of meeting real philanthropists who seek no attention and just give without worrying about accolades and blowback.
in kanyes case its hard to discern his true motives since hes got a track record of instability and pettiness. im with him for bringing attention to the cause or corruption. i am saying that kanye is very low on the totem pole of being legit for causes and activism until he shows me that this new leap towards faith and what his ensuing actions are. ill give him the benefit of the doubt though - but i don't feel that defending him based on his celebrity and past transgressions of inappropriateness gives him a clean karma blanket to work with.
as my mom said - go earn it. so ill support his causes until his attitude is reliable enough to make me want to rep him as a decent human being again. not fucking with you woob, i appreciate your perspective here. i feel were on the same page about the system and showing everyone love. all im saying is that there are more deserving people ahead in the line that do more shit with less than kenye and dont make a huge production out of it. all love fam!
in kanyes case its hard to discern his true motives since hes got a track record of instability and pettiness. im with him for bringing attention to the cause or corruption. i am saying that kanye is very low on the totem pole of being legit for causes and activism until he shows me that this new leap towards faith and what his ensuing actions are. ill give him the benefit of the doubt though - but i don't feel that defending him based on his celebrity and past transgressions of inappropriateness gives him a clean karma blanket to work with.
as my mom said - go earn it. so ill support his causes until his attitude is reliable enough to make me want to rep him as a decent human being again. not fucking with you woob, i appreciate your perspective here. i feel were on the same page about the system and showing everyone love. all im saying is that there are more deserving people ahead in the line that do more shit with less than kenye and dont make a huge production out of it. all love fam!
