Neverending Covid-19 Coronavirus

Chucktshoes said:
Actually, I totally can buy a tank. There are quite a few privately owned tanks in the US. A private party in the US just bought over 50 F-18 fighter jets. The only thing keeping me from owning fun stuff like artillery is money.

As to the rest, we will see.
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I mean, okay but you get my point. I know you are a big gun rights guy but there are certain weapons that if you owned you would be arrested or fined for owning. You may not agree with it but there are laws and rules restricting the ownership of some firearms.
 
Chucktshoes said:
I’ve clearly stated my position. Beyond this is needless repetition.
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It seems your position is that you don't know, let's see what the courts say. I was trying to offer similar examples, that happen all the time, for consideration that have not been effectively challenged in the courts because I thought you were interested in discussing it. Sorry if I was mistaken.
 
dhodo said:
It seems your position is that you don't know, let's see what the courts say. I was trying to offer similar examples, that happen all the time, for consideration that have not been effectively challenged in the courts because I thought you were interested in discussing it. Sorry if I was mistaken.
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My position is that we can pontificate all we want on what power the government can justifiably wield right now, but ultimately the issue will be decided in court.
As to where I personally draw the line with regard to what rights I’m willing to give up? Here ya go.
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Chucktshoes said:
My position is that we can pontificate all we want on what power the government can justifiably wield right now, but ultimately the issue will be decided in court.
As to where I personally draw the line with regard to what rights I’m willing to give up? Here ya go.
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I'm not sure where you got anything about giving up rights, in the context of our government, from what I said.
 
dhodo said:
I'm not sure where you got anything about giving up rights, in the context of our government, from what I said.
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Apparently we weren’t having the same conversation then. The entire argument against the government’s actions and ability to enforce these types of stay at home orders is that it is an undue infringement upon the individual rights and liberties of the citizenry.
 
Chucktshoes said:
Apparently we weren’t having the same conversation then. The entire argument against the government’s actions and ability to enforce these types of stay at home orders is that it is an undue infringement upon the individual rights and liberties of the citizenry.
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My point was that argument seems to be directly contradicted by precedence, as evidenced by the countless times in the history of our country that state and local governments have shut down businesses and restricted travel for health concerns and disasters. They continue to happen yearly for things like hurricanes and those orders are generally much more restrictive.

In the past, the courts have not agreed that the rights of those protesters were infringed upon. It really seems like the prevailing opinion of the courts is that the government can do whatever it wants if you can't prove that it isn't purely in the interest of public health.

People acting like these types of orders are unprecedented is confusing me. @Turbo's article went over past examples much better than I could. The only example it gave of an overturned quarantine is one that was discriminatorily applied only against Chinese people. If anyone can provide a better example of an overturned case, it would be great to learn about.
 
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The courts have previously given a lot of leeway to the other branches of government in the name of national security. If i were the attorney, that is the precedent i would start my reasoning with. Rights can and have been suspended under this doctrine.

Edit: I was under the influence and couldn't completely find my words. Thank you @dhodo for elaborating a bit more. National security/public health and safety.
 
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Chucktshoes said:
The courts, and/or voters, will ultimately decide that. I’m not comfortable making any sort of definitive statements on the legality of any of the measures at this point.

I will say that regardless of the advisability of the protests in a medical context, I find that the idea of legally sanctioning folks engaged in political protest to be on questionable legal footing.
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No one is legally sanctioning the protest though. It was allowed to happen without a struggle.
I think some of us are just questioning the rationale of the protest.
 
dhodo said:
My point was that argument seems to be directly contradicted by precedence, as evidenced by the countless times in the history of our country that state and local governments have shut down businesses and restricted travel for health concerns and disasters. They continue to happen yearly for things like hurricanes and those orders are generally much more restrictive.

In the past, the courts have not agreed that the "rights" of those protesters were infringed upon. It really seems like the prevailing opinion of the courts is that the government can do whatever it wants if you can't prove that it isn't purely in the interest of public health.

People acting like these types of orders are unprecedented is confusing me. @Turbo's article went over past examples much better than I could. The only example it gave of an overturned quarantine is one that was discriminatorily applied only against Chinese people. If anyone can provide a better example of an overturned case, it would be great to learn about.
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Once again I strongly suspect that we’re not actually having the same conversation. There are certain cues in your response that inform me that we disagree on the definitions of certain basic words and terms in use here. Our worldviews differ to the level that people have fought wars and died over the disagreements between them. I don’t see us coming to any common ground on this subject.
 
And Chuck, i'm just shaking my head at you. Cause I've gotten into these opposing view types of discussion with you. But in person. And i can just picture you with that smile on your face and that twinkle in your eye.

Chuck really is a wonderful dude. He's open to good discussions. Just imagine chuck as someone, without malice, drinking a beer with you on a Sunday with football in the background and hearing everything you said and offering his counterpoint.
 
Chucktshoes said:
Once again I strongly suspect that we’re not actually having the same conversation. There are certain cues in your response that inform me that we disagree on the definitions of certain basic words and terms in use here. Our worldviews differ to the level that people have fought wars and died over the disagreements between them. I don’t see us coming to any common ground on this subject.
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I literally just laid out what the courts have found in the past when the discussion was about what the courts would do. Our courts rely heavily on precedence. That has nothing to do with worldview or personal opinion. It is fact. I don't understand what your hang-up is about any point I have actually made, because you don't seem to be interested in discussing any of them. I actually do not have a black and white opinion about the subject at all, but that isn't what we were discussing. However, the opinion of the courts seems very well established and clear to me, something which you have not contradicted, other than saying "we'll see."

Have a good one.
 
Lee Newman said:
PPE use in the general public is ridiculous. Most people are misusing so badly when I’m out and about that I’d just assume they stopped. Masking isn’t really about not getting it but ensuring you don’t spread it. These people walking in the streets with n95s are ridiculous. The Costco employee with his gloved hands in his pockets kills me. The lady who gets out of her car wearing gloves and rummages through her purse. The dude wear gloves at the gas pump who gets in his car starts it up and drives off while still wearing his gloves. These people are basically infecting everything they own with god knows what. Even at the hospital, I had to file a report so I could get the folks in the cafeteria and the gift shops to stop handling everything with the same pair of gloves.
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I see the same kind of thing here.
Seeing people in the streets with n95s (and using them incorrectly most of the times) when there's shortages of PPE for health workers...
It actually gives me headaches.
 
Lee Newman said:
At Lowe’s today (holy fuck there were a LOT of people there) I saw a dude in a full mechanical like painting a car respirator.
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Don’t ya wonder with folks like that though if they aren’t the doomsday prepper type with an itchy trigger finger, like they gotta go-bag filled with k-rations and bullets is sitting by the front door and dug up all the gold coins they had buried in their back yard the second the outbreak started. They were prolly just looking for an excuse to test that sucker out.
 
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