I completely get London Jazz is just a refinement, as I said, I’m struggling to think of any ground breaking scene at the minute. All the things you mention are refinements of existing stuff. I have no clue what chip tune or vapourware are, hopefully there something new that the youth can call it’s own. I also have no clue what MBNSC is either but my point is I can’t think of a revolutionary youth movement since the rave scene in the late 80’s early 90’s. Dup step is a direct descendant of that scene, not revolutionary at all. When all these things happened they encompass a broad range of music that fits an ethos, think the Mod scene, or early hip hop fir example, then as things progress the ethos and music begins to split into narrower scenes, like jungle, dubstep and grime.
All music is based in influences from other music going back to the oldest folk. That isn’t my point, my point was in part about revolutionary music scenes that then go on to influence us all. Just on observation triggered by the previous posts on rebellion. It’s got to be difficult for the youth today to truly rebel in music terms. Maybe because everyone has so much access to music these days everyone has become eclectic music consumers.
If people are complaining in here, then I'd imagine that they are "rebelling" just fine. Maybe our ideas of how to "rebel" are outdated anyway. And I still believe that you are drawing distinction based on incredibly arbitrary criteria that just make sense to you, because you aren't of their generation. Maybe what you felt was revolutionary, isn't so much. And that's the point. If your standards are that it influences "us all," then what you're really discussing is mass consumerism, not revolution. Is the existence of Bush and Silver Chair evidence that grunge mattered, or could it have been revolutionary without the knockoffs? Is the fact that Royal Trux got signed the pinnacle of it's relevance? Some people still believe Pavement begins and ends as a rip-off of The Fall. Are the Wipers or Dead Moon only relevant because other bands got famous biting their styles, or would they matter if nobody was still aware of them and they never got namechecked? Is Nick Drake relevent on his own without Elliot Smith being signed to Dreamworks?
I also find it interesting that 2, essentially conflicting, viewpoints are overlapping here, while, at points, trying to reinforce one another about the drastic differences in this generation. One is that kids today don't respect and appreciate music of the past, while all past generations did. The other, somehow, tries to explain that by saying it's because there is no new music, while giving examples of how past generations rebelled against the music that came before them. ???
The general public listens to popular music. That's why it's popular music. Individuals make their own ways and scenes. It's every generation. A lot of kids listened to the Beatles while their parents wished they gave a shit about the recording career of Lawrence Welk. To mention Grunge, it's important to understand that Sub Pop formed, because Bruce Pavitt noticed that small off the grid towns each formed their own unique scenes and believed that they should be given a voice and a way to connect to each other. That's still the case. He made a zine with mixtapes highlighting them and had a radio show. That's your underground scene. People don't need to wait for new music to rebel with, they can make it and always have. Memphis had their own rap scene/sound. Sure, everyone bites it now, but only certain people cared about it before that. If I mentioned any scene without a distinct brand, it sounds like it wouldn't meet your criteria yet, because the branding and distinct boxes are what validate it. Whether it's post-rock or post-punk or no-wave or grunge, the only unifying factor is the most superficial elements and those are usually defined by outsiders and media.
It's not the underground's job to deliver the mainstream a fully processed product with market research proving it's profitability, so that it can be brought to the outside world and validated. They'll steal it, water it down, and sell it, in good time -- as soon as it seems viable.
If it's real and "underground," at all, they don't give a fuck what anyone else thinks, let alone if we are aware of and validate it. That's rebellion enough. Nobody should care about Grandpa Simpson shaking his fist and, as the grandpas, we should probably be more self aware about the fact that our fists aren't any cooler or different than those that were shaking at us, in the past.
My son is 7. He loves Herbie Hancock, Royal Trux, Arthur Russell, James Chance, Hiroshi Yoshimura, Battles, J Mascis, DJ Shadow, Squarepusher, Serge Gainsbourg, and Kool Keith. He's writing songs about space devil birds. The youth is fine.
). The other day, I heard Tyler playing Sunshine of Your Love on his guitar, and I don’t even really like Cream. 
