Political Discussion

I’m game. Let’s take our inherent skepticism about politicians out of the picture for a moment. It is not in anyone’s best interest for WWIII to begin. I Actually believe Biden, Blinken and Harris know this is where we are headed at this rate. That’s why I believe they are actually working on a peace deal. Biden is hamstrung by the unpopular reality of it both politically and from the military industrial complex. This hamstrings Blinken and Kamala’s biggest weakness as a candidate is ignoring the current administration - good and bad alike.

Trump doesn’t fucking care because he’s gonna join forces with Israel, Russia, China and North Korea to create the worst Fascism the planet has ever seen.
 
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Netanyahu is doing whatever he wants because he, like most of the world believes that Trump is gonna win and that works to his favor.

The reason Biden ultimately cares about the unpopularity of the work that needs to be done, is because he actually wants to do things he thinks he can accomplish like erase more student debt.
 
BjorgenFjorgen said:
This is it. Both parties and all their leaders are completely in support of Israel and its ongoing aggression (and have been for decades) because Israel is its colonial outpost in the region. The value of that for American foreign policy (i.e., imperialism) is way more important than a single presidential election for either party.
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I agree for the most part though that is more of a systemic issue. I don’t think the way our political system is structured allows either presidential candidate to put the “values” of America’s imperialistic foreign policy before themselves.

Politicians have huge egos (you pretty much have to to want to run for office) I think they all genuinely believe that “win they win they will make a difference” when in all actuality the the Federal Government is a giant bureaucratic machine and the most POTUS spend most of their time making sure the wheels don’t completely fall off the bus.

Harris likely won’t demonstrably change foreign policy, I think it will be better than the other options available but I also don’t think she will cut off support for Israel (which is what a lot of us wish would happen). Israel has always been a mess. long before it was even a country. I wish some sort of two state solution would at least be attempted but that seems very unlikely at the moment.

Shit is fucked.
 
Nee Lewman said:
I’m game. Let’s take our inherent skepticism about politicians out of the picture for a moment. It is not in anyone’s best interest for WWIII to begin. I Actually believe Biden, Blinken and Harris know this is where we are headed at this rate. That’s why I believe they are actually working on a peace deal. Biden is hamstrung by the unpopular reality of it both politically and from the military industrial complex. This hamstrings Blinken and Kamala’s biggest weakness as a candidate is ignoring the current administration - good and bad alike.

Trump doesn’t fucking care because he’s gonna join forces with Israel, Russia, China and North Korea to create the worst Fascism the planet has ever seen.
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Israel and the states won’t ally with Russia and China and the Kims, that’s who you’ll be fighting if there is a WWIII. It will most likely begin with an Israeli offensive on Iran if it does.
 
Nee Lewman said:
Netanyahu is doing whatever he wants because he, like most of the world believes that Trump is gonna win and that works to his favor.

The reason Biden ultimately cares about the unpopularity of the work that needs to be done, is because he actually wants to do things he thinks he can accomplish like erase more student debt.
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These are both very rosey takes that would make my life a lot easier if I could genuinely buy into. Unfortunately they exist in the context of the last hundred years.
 
I think some of the takes on here are just such a stretch that I’m going to have to bow out for a while. Please stop deluding yourself that the only win is Trump not getting in and focus on holding the other side to account as well if they do beat him. You’re giving them way too much credit on almost zero evidence. It’s ok to say you’re voting for the lesser evil, it’s not ok to pretend they’re good and not point that out.
 
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Joe Mac said:
I think some of the takes on here are just such a stretch that I’m going to have to bow out for a while. Please stop deluding yourself that the only win is Trump not getting and focus on holding the other side to account as well if they do beat him. You’re giving them way too much credit on almost zero evidence. It’s ok to say you’re voting for the lesser evil, it’s not ok to pretend they’re good and not point that out.
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Sorry I think Kamala is a good person in an unwinnable situation. If that makes her evil then I guess she's evil. But I care about the totality of things and not one sole issue that I must purity test her on, even if that issue is about the most terrible thing happening in our world right now. I think it will get better once she takes over because Israel has no more plays to make and no more leverage to hold.
 
mdmost said:
Sorry I think Kamala is a good person in an unwinnable situation. If that makes her evil then I guess she's evil. But I care about the totality of things and not one sole issue that I must purity test her on, even if that issue is about the most terrible thing happening in our world right now. I think it will get better once she takes over because Israel has no more plays to make and no more leverage to hold.
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I fundamentally don’t. She’s a cop. Never trust a cop. However her position on the one of the biggest global atrocities in a generation is absolutely a fair test.
 
Joe Mac said:
I fundamentally don’t. However her position on the one of the biggest global atrocities in a generation is absolutely a fair test.
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For you, that's fine as someone in the UK. You're not a person directly affected if Trump wins. I am. My wife and daughters are. People in this country I care about will be. She aligns with all of us so I will absolutely vote for her and believe in her.
 
Joe Mac said:
I fundamentally don’t. She’s a cop. Never trust a cop. However her position on the one of the biggest global atrocities in a generation is absolutely a fair test.
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Not to mention just seeking out the presidency of the United States and what you have to do to accomplish that are pretty contrary to being a "good person" at all.
 
mdmost said:
For you, that's fine as someone in the UK. You're not a person directly affected if Trump wins. I am. My wife and daughters are. People in this country I care about will be. She aligns with all of us so I will absolutely vote for her and believe in her.
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We gained our independence 102 years ago thank you very much.

In all seriousness, vote for Harris. She’s a bad candidate but she is obviously a fundamentally better choice than the Tango Man. I’m saying that doesn’t make her good, that doesn’t make me trust her, that doesn’t make me think she’s on the right side of a fundamentally important global issue. It’s more important to be critical and hold those you support to account than those you don’t.
 
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mdmost said:
For you, that's fine as someone in the UK. You're not a person directly affected if Trump wins. I am. My wife and daughters are. People in this country I care about will be. She aligns with all of us so I will absolutely vote for her and believe in her.
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Pretty sure @Joe Mac is from Ireland and much more familiar with the effects of colonialism than myself or you are.

Also, it's fine to think all that, just don't try and convince me she's a good person with everyone's interests at heart. Being a cop and permitting a genocide don't usually preclude that.
 
mdmost said:
Sorry, I thought you resided in England.
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You’re grand, I have and grow up there but my family ties are here and drew me over here 17 years ago. The second part I added after to the post is what is fundamentally irking me about the exchanges in here. It’s like theees a collective myopia to the worst side of whom you all support. In your shoes I would voting for them as there is no other choice but shouting from the rooftops about their issues and the need for change.
 
ayayrawn said:
Pretty sure @Joe Mac is from Ireland and much more familiar with the effects of colonialism than myself or you are.

Also, it's fine to think all that, just don't try and convince me she's a good person with everyone's interests at heart. Being a cop and permitting a genocide don't usually preclude that.
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I can certainly say more about how British colonial partitions are all arbitrary, bizarre and enormous cluster fucks.
 
mdmost said:
Sorry I think Kamala is a good person in an unwinnable situation. If that makes her evil then I guess she's evil. But I care about the totality of things and not one sole issue that I must purity test her on, even if that issue is about the most terrible thing happening in our world right now. I think it will get better once she takes over because Israel has no more plays to make and no more leverage to hold.
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Israel hasn't had any leverage this entire time, which makes it all the more humiliating for Biden and the Dems.
 
BjorgenFjorgen said:
Israel hasn't had any leverage this entire time, which makes it all the more humiliating for Biden and the Dems.
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It depend on what you consider leverage. Their mere existence is leverage. It is crazy that they have a nutter willing play chicken with a train the way Netanyahu has but here we are. If the US doesn’t Support Israel they either seek support from China or Russia or they get wiped off the map by their middle eastern neighbors.

That is insane but it’s leverage nonetheless.
 
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