Political Discussion

I hope his dumb ass quits using the platform in a tantrum. Twitter has never been a great place for discourse but it would get a bit better if Trump jumped ship and took many incels, Alt Right Nazis, Qanon conspiracy weirdos, and MAGA fools with him.
 
I hope his dumb ass quits using the platform in a tantrum. Twitter has never been a great place for discourse but it would get a bit better if Trump jumped ship and took many incels, Alt Right Nazis, Qanon conspiracy weirdos, and MAGA fools with him.
The thing is that they would never leave because they need the platform. They'll just become louder and more insufferable about everything.
 
who clearly wanted another dead black man at the hands of the police.

Maybe you are just speaking from a more emotional point at this time, but I don't think you can really make this statement. I'm not saying what she did was right, but this level of animosity can't really be determined from the video. She was panicked and not making good decisions. Did she have good reason to be panicked, probably not. I wonder why she went from 0 to 10 so quickly.
 
Less than 24 hours after I talked my black friend off a cliff (he had decided he wasn't going to vote) over Biden's idiotic, inflammatory comments another black man winds up dead at the hand of the police. Not to mention that lady (who should be facing charges) in Central Park who clearly wanted another dead black man at the hands of the police.

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I will say as someone who has had to restrain people. I have no idea why putting your knee on a persons neck is necessary.
 
My aunt has lived in North Carolina for almost 20 years now. She is a Republican.

When talking to her over the weekend she went on a rant about how the whole state's shutdown is political. The state is only shut down because they have a democratic governor and that he's trying to sabotage the Republican National Convention.

She completely dismisses the fact that the state is shut down because that's what health experts are recommending and that North Carolina is among the states with the fasting growing rate of new infections. They are still on the upwards trajectory and accelerating.
 
My aunt has lived in North Carolina for almost 20 years now. She is a Republican.

When talking to her over the weekend she went on a rant about how the whole state's shutdown is political. The state is only shut down because they have a democratic governor and that he's trying to sabotage the Republican National Convention.

She completely dismisses the fact that the state is shut down because that's what health experts are recommending and that North Carolina is among the states with the fasting growing rate of new infections. They are still on the upwards trajectory and accelerating.
I'll do you one better. I have family in GA, this is the kind of thing I gotta look at on a daily basis. I swear, I'm really trying to understand in a logical fashion how so many have blinders on, every conversation with them only contains the following as a defense "Fake News" or "Well, that's CNN...", nobody fact checks in the least..........I was told the "Pu**y" comment was fake news because I used a CNN clip of it, they don't know how to have a discussion with an opinion based on some sort of fact. My other problem with this is that it's exposing people for who they are, family included, they only see as far as their own family dynamic. They're employed, some have business' that are doing well, they live well, have a nice house, a couple of cars and go on vacation pretty much anytime they want, there is no real financial struggle in their lives......"We're doing great, I don't see what people are complaining about". I tend to take care of my own now a days because looking at the big picture is bleak and hope is running out fast, but come on.
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I'll do you one better. I have family in GA, this is the kind of thing I gotta look at on a daily basis. I swear, I'm really trying to understand in a logical fashion how so many have blinders on, every conversation with them only contains the following as a defense "Fake News" or "Well, that's CNN...", nobody fact checks in the least..........I was told the "Pu**y" comment was fake news because I used a CNN clip of it, they don't know how to have a discussion with an opinion based on some sort of fact. My other problem with this is that it's exposing people for who they are, family included, they only see as far as their own family dynamic. They're employed, some have business' that are doing well, they live well, have a nice house, a couple of cars and go on vacation pretty much anytime they want, there is no real financial struggle in their lives......"We're doing great, I don't see what people are complaining about". I tend to take care of my own now a days because looking at the big picture is bleak and hope is running out fast, but come on.
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Yeah, I hear the same things from my family. I make sure to never link a CNN article or clip now, or rather, any MSM source because it is dismissed as fake news because of the source before it's even opened. It's so infuriating.

My dad always says they don't check the facts as well, you have to look to other sources to get the facts. Well, all those "other facts" are conspiracies as far as I can tell. And not actual facts or science.
 
Maybe you are just speaking from a more emotional point at this time, but I don't think you can really make this statement. I'm not saying what she did was right, but this level of animosity can't really be determined from the video. She was panicked and not making good decisions. Did she have good reason to be panicked, probably not. I wonder why she went from 0 to 10 so quickly.
I respectfully disagree. Do not make excuses for her actions. She should be charged with attempted murder. She knew exactly what she was doing. She raised her voice and acted hysterical ON PURPOSE while on the 911 call. Prosecutors have used hysterical 911 calls as the proof to convict black people of crimes. Calling the cops on black people is absolutely a weapon and is dangerous.
 
I respectfully disagree. Do not make excuses for her actions. She should be charged with attempted murder. She knew exactly what she was doing. She raised her voice and acted hysterical ON PURPOSE while on the 911 call. Prosecutors have used hysterical 911 calls as the proof to convict black people of crimes. Calling the cops on black people is absolutely a weapon and is dangerous.
I gotta agree with @Teeeee here, she was panicked? Why? Because "someone" asked her to leash her dog in the park where it's the rule? I'm white America and I would bet my life that if it were a white guy asking her that question he might of gotten a "Fuck off" worse case scenario. Accountability for your actions no matter how big or small needs to be there, especially now a days where we seem to think we can get away with anything with the "proper" excuse. We have way too much "Cultural instilled fear" in this country, she's not fearing the man, she's fearing the color of his skin.
 
We are living in scary times. Someone just summed it up well on another forum.

If people choose to simply dismiss information/fact/data as "fake news" because it doesn't align with their political / world views there is no hope. They will not compromise in any argument, won't learn or have any improvement on values. There can be no resolution if people simply refuse to accept information that does not align with their views.

With America become more divided, and one side in particular not willing to make any compromises things can only get worse for the time being.
 
I shouldn't be jumping into this thread but screw it. Time for a long post about this bullshit. Sorry if I'm just stating the obvious.

Re: Ramble Karen
So the question was raised whether or not this whyte woman wanted another black man to die at the hands of the police. Can we definitively say she wanted this man to die? No. Can we say that she was weaponizing the man's race against him? Yes. Can we say that she was aware that calling the police and screaming "an African American man was threatening" her life would be perceived as a threat by the man as well as the police? Yes. Can we say that she was aware of the threat posed by the police to Black men? Yes.

So, whether or not she wanted the man to die is irrelevant. She knew what she was doing and she was aware of the myriad of potential outcomes. None of which, particularly mattered to her as long as she got whatever she was perceiving she wanted.

Speculating further, was this woman stress related to her ignorance in this instance? Irrelevant. Is what we don't see prior to the beginning of the video relevant? In my mind, No. Because what is clear in the video is that the person holding the camera has a non-threatening tone, while the woman being filmed is threatening the man behind the camera.

Is this woman a white supremacist? probably not. Is she a bigot? maybe. Is she racist? absolutely. Does she think of herself as racist? almost certainly not, but people who actively weaponize their privilege to physically or mentally injure someone of a different race who lacks that privilege is absolutely guilty of racism. It's the same racism that is institutionalized, that our nation, economy, and identity are founded upon.

Re Minneapolis police:
The FOP is also a racist institution. Are all of its members racists? Probably not. Do they serve and protect an inequitable and unjust system that is intended to protect the people who have from those who have not? Most definitely.

Both police unions in Minneapolis and St. Paul are headed by known racists. The Minneapolis Union is headed by Bob Kroll, an avid Trumpy and known white supremacist, who has faced many excessive force and racial complaints over his years as an officer. Minneapolis is a very liberal city, as you might imagine, yet its police union is headed by someone who has beat African and African Americans while using racial slurs. This is also the same place (different municipality) where Phialndro Castile was murdered and just a few weeks ago while the Ahmed Arbuery news was breaking a young white man from a suburban county, murdered a black man who he was in a fender bender with in St. Paul.

As to the use of the knee to choke (and kill) a man in handcuffs: If you ever do any digging on police training, use of force guidance, and the people behind these things you'll quickly find some disturbing trends. As Lester Holt once said "follow the money." Police officers are taught to sacrifice the lives of the people they are engage with for their own. The perception that their lives are always under threat regardless of the reality combined with again institutionalized if not outright white supremacist views leads to incidents like this where a cuffed suspect is being detained by choking him to death. Similarly to Ramble Karen, did they want him to die? Who knows? Did they care if he did? No.

Until white Americans start putting the well-being of other races, especially African Americans, ahead of their own to begin to move towards something that resembles an equitable society we will continue to all be complicit in these failures. btw putting the public's lives ahead of their own is exactly what the police should be doing (in theory).

This is why if you vote for Trump or don't vote against him (even though Biden is an old white guy idiot who will continue to promote capitalistic driven class, race, and gender inequity) you are at minimum tacitly furthering racially motivated inequity, and at maximum promoting if not actively participating in white supremacist ideals. Not only that you are tacitly promoting a propaganda machine that is having and will continue to have incredible long-term implications for our society.

These stories are not new. Black men have been getting profiled and murdered for being black men for a long time, but what is different now is how easily visible it is to white people who can see it all from the safety of their privilege. It's recorded, it's on video, it's reported on (often inappropriately), and it's weaponized for political gain and power. If we choose to ignore what is so easily visible we are all complicit.
 
Maybe you are just speaking from a more emotional point at this time, but I don't think you can really make this statement. I'm not saying what she did was right, but this level of animosity can't really be determined from the video. She was panicked and not making good decisions. Did she have good reason to be panicked, probably not. I wonder why she went from 0 to 10 so quickly.

Maybe I shouldn’t have used the word clearly but it’s pretty clear to me she was weaponizing a 911 call.

 
I shouldn't be jumping into this thread but screw it. Time for a long post about this bullshit. Sorry if I'm just stating the obvious.

Re: Ramble Karen
So the question was raised whether or not this whyte woman wanted another black man to die at the hands of the police. Can we definitively say she wanted this man to die? No. Can we say that she was weaponizing the man's race against him? Yes. Can we say that she was aware that calling the police and screaming "an African American man was threatening" her life would be perceived as a threat by the man as well as the police? Yes. Can we say that she was aware of the threat posed by the police to Black men? Yes.

So, whether or not she wanted the man to die is irrelevant. She knew what she was doing and she was aware of the myriad of potential outcomes. None of which, particularly mattered to her as long as she got whatever she was perceiving she wanted.

Speculating further, was this woman stress related to her ignorance in this instance? Irrelevant. Is what we don't see prior to the beginning of the video relevant? In my mind, No. Because what is clear in the video is that the person holding the camera has a non-threatening tone, while the woman being filmed is threatening the man behind the camera.

Is this woman a white supremacist? probably not. Is she a bigot? maybe. Is she racist? absolutely. Does she think of herself as racist? almost certainly not, but people who actively weaponize their privilege to physically or mentally injure someone of a different race who lacks that privilege is absolutely guilty of racism. It's the same racism that is institutionalized, that our nation, economy, and identity are founded upon.

Re Minneapolis police:
The FOP is also a racist institution. Are all of its members racists? Probably not. Do they serve and protect an inequitable and unjust system that is intended to protect the people who have from those who have not? Most definitely.

Both police unions in Minneapolis and St. Paul are headed by known racists. The Minneapolis Union is headed by Bob Kroll, an avid Trumpy and known white supremacist, who has faced many excessive force and racial complaints over his years as an officer. Minneapolis is a very liberal city, as you might imagine, yet its police union is headed by someone who has beat African and African Americans while using racial slurs. This is also the same place (different municipality) where Phialndro Castile was murdered and just a few weeks ago while the Ahmed Arbuery news was breaking a young white man from a suburban county, murdered a black man who he was in a fender bender with in St. Paul.

As to the use of the knee to choke (and kill) a man in handcuffs: If you ever do any digging on police training, use of force guidance, and the people behind these things you'll quickly find some disturbing trends. As Lester Holt once said "follow the money." Police officers are taught to sacrifice the lives of the people they are engage with for their own. The perception that their lives are always under threat regardless of the reality combined with again institutionalized if not outright white supremacist views leads to incidents like this where a cuffed suspect is being detained by choking him to death. Similarly to Ramble Karen, did they want him to die? Who knows? Did they care if he did? No.

Until white Americans start putting the well-being of other races, especially African Americans, ahead of their own to begin to move towards something that resembles an equitable society we will continue to all be complicit in these failures. btw putting the public's lives ahead of their own is exactly what the police should be doing (in theory).

This is why if you vote for Trump or don't vote against him (even though Biden is an old white guy idiot who will continue to promote capitalistic driven class, race, and gender inequity) you are at minimum tacitly furthering racially motivated inequity, and at maximum promoting if not actively participating in white supremacist ideals. Not only that you are tacitly promoting a propaganda machine that is having and will continue to have incredible long-term implications for our society.

These stories are not new. Black men have been getting profiled and murdered for being black men for a long time, but what is different now is how easily visible it is to white people who can see it all from the safety of their privilege. It's recorded, it's on video, it's reported on (often inappropriately), and it's weaponized for political gain and power. If we choose to ignore what is so easily visible we are all complicit.
This is wonderful.

We are all racist in some way. We have to do the work to unlearn it. DO THE WORK! Look internally, was your first thought: He shouldn't have resisted? Because that is irrelevant. (And now we know he didn't and the cops lied about it). It is HARD work to look inside yourself and recognize your prejudices. But it is vitally important that we do it.

May I suggest this workbook? I did the exercise in this about a year ago. And I am going to do it again. It is very very hard and challenging work but as recent events have shown, we all must do the work.

 
I shouldn't be jumping into this thread but screw it. Time for a long post about this bullshit. Sorry if I'm just stating the obvious.

Re: Ramble Karen
So the question was raised whether or not this whyte woman wanted another black man to die at the hands of the police. Can we definitively say she wanted this man to die? No. Can we say that she was weaponizing the man's race against him? Yes. Can we say that she was aware that calling the police and screaming "an African American man was threatening" her life would be perceived as a threat by the man as well as the police? Yes. Can we say that she was aware of the threat posed by the police to Black men? Yes.

So, whether or not she wanted the man to die is irrelevant. She knew what she was doing and she was aware of the myriad of potential outcomes. None of which, particularly mattered to her as long as she got whatever she was perceiving she wanted.

Speculating further, was this woman stress related to her ignorance in this instance? Irrelevant. Is what we don't see prior to the beginning of the video relevant? In my mind, No. Because what is clear in the video is that the person holding the camera has a non-threatening tone, while the woman being filmed is threatening the man behind the camera.

Is this woman a white supremacist? probably not. Is she a bigot? maybe. Is she racist? absolutely. Does she think of herself as racist? almost certainly not, but people who actively weaponize their privilege to physically or mentally injure someone of a different race who lacks that privilege is absolutely guilty of racism. It's the same racism that is institutionalized, that our nation, economy, and identity are founded upon.

Re Minneapolis police:
The FOP is also a racist institution. Are all of its members racists? Probably not. Do they serve and protect an inequitable and unjust system that is intended to protect the people who have from those who have not? Most definitely.

Both police unions in Minneapolis and St. Paul are headed by known racists. The Minneapolis Union is headed by Bob Kroll, an avid Trumpy and known white supremacist, who has faced many excessive force and racial complaints over his years as an officer. Minneapolis is a very liberal city, as you might imagine, yet its police union is headed by someone who has beat African and African Americans while using racial slurs. This is also the same place (different municipality) where Phialndro Castile was murdered and just a few weeks ago while the Ahmed Arbuery news was breaking a young white man from a suburban county, murdered a black man who he was in a fender bender with in St. Paul.

As to the use of the knee to choke (and kill) a man in handcuffs: If you ever do any digging on police training, use of force guidance, and the people behind these things you'll quickly find some disturbing trends. As Lester Holt once said "follow the money." Police officers are taught to sacrifice the lives of the people they are engage with for their own. The perception that their lives are always under threat regardless of the reality combined with again institutionalized if not outright white supremacist views leads to incidents like this where a cuffed suspect is being detained by choking him to death. Similarly to Ramble Karen, did they want him to die? Who knows? Did they care if he did? No.

Until white Americans start putting the well-being of other races, especially African Americans, ahead of their own to begin to move towards something that resembles an equitable society we will continue to all be complicit in these failures. btw putting the public's lives ahead of their own is exactly what the police should be doing (in theory).

This is why if you vote for Trump or don't vote against him (even though Biden is an old white guy idiot who will continue to promote capitalistic driven class, race, and gender inequity) you are at minimum tacitly furthering racially motivated inequity, and at maximum promoting if not actively participating in white supremacist ideals. Not only that you are tacitly promoting a propaganda machine that is having and will continue to have incredible long-term implications for our society.

These stories are not new. Black men have been getting profiled and murdered for being black men for a long time, but what is different now is how easily visible it is to white people who can see it all from the safety of their privilege. It's recorded, it's on video, it's reported on (often inappropriately), and it's weaponized for political gain and power. If we choose to ignore what is so easily visible we are all complicit.

Didn’t see this before my post. You absolutely nailed it. Do you mind if I post this on my Facebook wall and cite it as, from my music forum?
 
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