Political Discussion

I wonder if the tactic of making simple bills where they force Reps to vote down popular progressive ideas would work? I doesn’t look like Dem leadership has the foresight to launch a large organizing campaign. They think taking cooperate money is their path.
Honestly, I think if they wanted to pass a second CARES bill for Covid relief that just gave out checks to individuals, either side could have put up a simple bill that did just that and nothing else. Corporate money is their path, or at least money from wealthy individuals. After Citizens United allowed for people to contribute to political campaigns without anyone having to disclose who is funding them, analysts estimate between 2/3rds and 3/4ths of all political campaign money (for the past 10 years now) comes from wealthy individuals. Furthermore, there is proof that politicians on both sides are passing laws that their wealth donors want, not their constituents.


And there are tons more like this.
We have to figure out how this works. The right panders with promises of a return to dead industries or to enshrining a demographic majority, and it sounds good if you’re desperate, but none of that is real.

The people who need to be reached, also need to be receptive to some difficult truths about what will be asked of them as well.
The first thing we should do is start enacting anti trust laws that we have been largely ignoring since Reganomics. I won't get into it but the lack of competition in industry is a lot of what is keeping wages stagnant, limiting good paying jobs and allowing corporations to write all the rules instead of workers.
To a point. We have to accept that they have been amongst the biggest victims of of the status quo and have been largely ignored by the system. There is a lot of distrust and not all of it is unfounded. Of course we can’t resurrect dead industries but we can’t also just abandon communities that grew up around those industries once they’ve exited stage left. The first move is for the governing to to make. After that I agree and we will see.
We have been sold a doctrine that whatever business does is blessed by the gods of the free market. The problem is that we don't have a free market anymore. We have a corporate oligarchy that gets rubber stamped to pollute our communities, pay workers as little as they can get away with, and they have bought our government--so much so that we, the taxpayers, end up bailing these oligarchs out when they make poor business decisions. If you don't know why there is distrust and resentment, just go to any place that had a factory closed down. Instead of protecting constituents from predatory corporate practices, our government is siding with business because the economy must keep going.
 
Honestly, I think if they wanted to pass a second CARES bill for Covid relief that just gave out checks to individuals, either side could have put up a simple bill that did just that and nothing else. Corporate money is their path, or at least money from wealthy individuals. After Citizens United allowed for people to contribute to political campaigns without anyone having to disclose who is funding them, analysts estimate between 2/3rds and 3/4ths of all political campaign money (for the past 10 years now) comes from wealthy individuals. Furthermore, there is proof that politicians on both sides are passing laws that their wealth donors want, not their constituents.


And there are tons more like this.

The first thing we should do is start enacting anti trust laws that we have been largely ignoring since Reganomics. I won't get into it but the lack of competition in industry is a lot of what is keeping wages stagnant, limiting good paying jobs and allowing corporations to write all the rules instead of workers.

We have been sold a doctrine that whatever business does is blessed by the gods of the free market. The problem is that we don't have a free market anymore. We have a corporate oligarchy that gets rubber stamped to pollute our communities, pay workers as little as they can get away with, and they have bought our government--so much so that we, the taxpayers, end up bailing these oligarchs out when they make poor business decisions. If you don't know why there is distrust and resentment, just go to any place that had a factory closed down. Instead of protecting constituents from predatory corporate practices, our government is siding with business because the economy must keep going.

Believe me I know. I grew up in a former coal mining area in England. Whilst there are definite differences in terms of socialised medicine and more of a welfare safety net there are huge parallels too. These are formerly staunch labour areas that have almost entirely voted conservative in the last two elections. Their industries were violently removed by a government who declared war on communities to crush unions. 30 years later no one has done anything to encourage retraining or new employment to come into the areas. They hand out welfare payments that are just enough to survive off and then demonise people for accepting them. Meanwhile they’ve been sold brexit as a way of regaining sovereignty and jobs when it is just an attempt by Boris and his cronies to turn Britain into a low tax haven for his city mates. So much stinks right now.
 
Believe me I know. I grew up in a former coal mining area in England. Whilst there are definite differences in terms of socialised medicine and more of a welfare safety net there are huge parallels too. These are formerly staunch labour areas that have almost entirely voted conservative in the last two elections. Their industries were violently removed by an government who declared war on communities to crush unions. 30 years later no one has done anything to encourage retraining or new employment to come into the areas. They hand out welfare payments that are just enough to survive off and then demonise people for accepting them. Meanwhile they’ve been sold brexit as a way of regaining sovereignty and jobs when it is just an attempt by Boris and his cronies to turn Britain into a low tax haven for his city mates. So much stinks right now.
I live near communities that are totally dependent on oil refineries so I get this.
 
I live near communities that are totally dependent on oil refineries so I get this.

Yeah I mean I don’t want the coal mines to reopen despite a strong family connection to the industry and how clear a vacuum it’s created. It’s yesterday’s industry. But these communities grew up around the pits which grew up around the coal seams. These are sizeable towns and villages which have lost the dominant employer. They aren’t necessarily commuter belt either because they are where the coal was and not necessarily on the main thoroughfares. No attempt has been made to properly invest in retraining or growing new industry. That’s without getting into the knock on effect on small businesses in the area from loosing a dominant employer and the sizeable pay packet that local workers once had to spend. Something has to change in our worlds, it’s not all about the big cities and the rich.
 
Believe me I know. I grew up in a former coal mining area in England. Whilst there are definite differences in terms of socialised medicine and more of a welfare safety net there are huge parallels too. These are formerly staunch labour areas that have almost entirely voted conservative in the last two elections. Their industries were violently removed by a government who declared war on communities to crush unions. 30 years later no one has done anything to encourage retraining or new employment to come into the areas. They hand out welfare payments that are just enough to survive off and then demonise people for accepting them. Meanwhile they’ve been sold brexit as a way of regaining sovereignty and jobs when it is just an attempt by Boris and his cronies to turn Britain into a low tax haven for his city mates. So much stinks right now.
Same with miners in Kentucky. Nobody wants to reach out to them, dem or republican. But they'll cling to the one that tells them what they want to hear ("coal is good!")
 
Yeah I mean I don’t want the coal mines to reopen despite a strong family connection to the industry and how clear a vacuum it’s created. It’s yesterday’s industry. But these communities grew up around the pits which grew up around the coal seams. These are sizeable towns and villages which have lost the dominant employer. They aren’t necessarily commuter belt either because they are where the coal was and not necessarily on the main thoroughfares. No attempt has been made to properly invest in retraining or growing new industry. That’s without getting into the knock on effect on small businesses in the area from loosing a dominant employer and the sizeable pay packet that local workers once had to spend. Something has to change in our worlds, it’s not all about the big cities and the rich.
Bill Marr noted on his show that in the 1960's the largest employer of Americans was GM and adjusted for inflation these folks took home on average about $60/hour after factoring in health care and pension benefits. Today, the largest employer of Americans is Wal-Mart. The average Wal-Mart employee makes $8/hour and they get no benefits. The problem isn't just that these employers leave a void. They leave a void where there once was a prosperous community. When these industries leave, the only jobs left are in serviced based and low paying jobs. And what happens when communities lose that local tax revenue? The first thing that suffers are the schools. It leaves welfare dependent people who once were not welfare dependent. It leaves ignorance and poverty.
Same with miners in Kentucky. Nobody wants to reach out to them, dem or republican. But they'll cling to the one that tells them what they want to hear ("coal is good!")
The only thing these people know is that coal jobs puts good money into their pockets. Sure they could get a job at Wal-Mart, but they wouldn't get benefits or good pay and most would likely stay on any welfare they were receiving. It is not their fault that the jobs available to them are either high paying coal jobs or low paying service jobs like Wal-Mart or the Dollar Tree. This is what they are upset about, not that "coal is good" but that coal actually pays our bills and the jobs they are trying to tell us will replace these jobs pay very poorly. They don't want coal to leave because nothing is there to fill it's void monetarily speaking. These people had decent wages and due to some government regulations, these people now have poor wages and are on welfare.

 
Bill Marr noted on his show that in the 1960's the largest employer of Americans was GM and adjusted for inflation these folks took home on average about $60/hour after factoring in health care and pension benefits. Today, the largest employer of Americans is Wal-Mart. The average Wal-Mart employee makes $8/hour and they get no benefits. The problem isn't just that these employers leave a void. They leave a void where there once was a prosperous community. When these industries leave, the only jobs left are in serviced based and low paying jobs. And what happens when communities lose that local tax revenue? The first thing that suffers are the schools. It leaves welfare dependent people who once were not welfare dependent. It leaves ignorance and poverty.

The only thing these people know is that coal jobs puts good money into their pockets. Sure they could get a job at Wal-Mart, but they wouldn't get benefits or good pay and most would likely stay on any welfare they were receiving. It is not their fault that the jobs available to them are either high paying coal jobs or low paying service jobs like Wal-Mart or the Dollar Tree. This is what they are upset about, not that "coal is good" but that coal actually pays our bills and the jobs they are trying to tell us will replace these jobs pay very poorly. They don't want coal to leave because nothing is there to fill it's void monetarily speaking. These people had decent wages and due to some government regulations, these people now have poor wages and are on welfare.

Are rural folk in these predicaments economically stuck to a point where they simply can’t afford to leave or are they emotionally stuck? Maybe educationally stuck? I just don’t know what keeps them there. The idea that a giant orange rich dude is going to bring some jobs back that he never fulfills promises on while spouting some racist nationalist bullshit?
 
We have been sold a doctrine that whatever business does is blessed by the gods of the free market. The problem is that we don't have a free market anymore. We have a corporate oligarchy that gets rubber stamped to pollute our communities, pay workers as little as they can get away with, and they have bought our government--so much so that we, the taxpayers, end up bailing these oligarchs out when they make poor business decisions. If you don't know why there is distrust and resentment, just go to any place that had a factory closed down. Instead of protecting constituents from predatory corporate practices, our government is siding with business because the economy must keep going.
The part I hate the most about these corporate oligarchies is healthcare. They are large, have lots of money. And with the number of employees they have they should be able to negotiate better rates. Right, right?

In my personal experience, both me individually and family members where we have seen the companies we work for bought out by a even larger holding group 2 or 3 times over the last 10 years. Each time we become a part of a larger holding group our health care benefits become worse. Higher deductibles, less coverage and our monthly premiums go up. Not to mention the amount of money the company contributes towards the premium goes down. Looking over my W2, Box 12 Code DD I can see what the total cost of my healthcare Premium is. If I deduct my contribution I can work out how much my employer pays for the the plan.

One of the things I noted was when we switched over to a larger holding companies benefits, the total cost of the healthcare premium went down. From around $8,000 a year to just under $5,000. Yet my monthly premium, that I contribute went up by $20 per pay period. So the larger holding company is contributing substantially less towards our healthcare. On top of that, we saw our deductibles jump by $1,000 and we all laugh out how shity our healthcare plan is now.

Another thing I have noticed is when there is a rate increase they pass on 75% of that rate increase to the employee.

Compared to the national average, the cost of our healthcare plan is dirt cheap.

Essentially, the large holding companies are paying as little as they can for healthcare.
 
Bill Marr noted on his show that in the 1960's the largest employer of Americans was GM and adjusted for inflation these folks took home on average about $60/hour after factoring in health care and pension benefits. Today, the largest employer of Americans is Wal-Mart. The average Wal-Mart employee makes $8/hour and they get no benefits. The problem isn't just that these employers leave a void. They leave a void where there once was a prosperous community. When these industries leave, the only jobs left are in serviced based and low paying jobs. And what happens when communities lose that local tax revenue? The first thing that suffers are the schools. It leaves welfare dependent people who once were not welfare dependent. It leaves ignorance and poverty.

The only thing these people know is that coal jobs puts good money into their pockets. Sure they could get a job at Wal-Mart, but they wouldn't get benefits or good pay and most would likely stay on any welfare they were receiving. It is not their fault that the jobs available to them are either high paying coal jobs or low paying service jobs like Wal-Mart or the Dollar Tree. This is what they are upset about, not that "coal is good" but that coal actually pays our bills and the jobs they are trying to tell us will replace these jobs pay very poorly. They don't want coal to leave because nothing is there to fill it's void monetarily speaking. These people had decent wages and due to some government regulations, these people now have poor wages and are on welfare.


Yes. Same thing. Coal mining was a dangerous job but it paid really highly for the working classes. It also gave opportunities for betterment for the cleverer kids amongst the working classes. My dad when he started out was as an 18 year old on the face, and studying at night, earning several times what his friend who had the desirable bank clerk job was. Plus it gave him the paid educational opportunities to do his engineering degree plus pension etc etc. What is the option now. Either leave to go to a big city for university/work, take the dole or work for a multi national chain for minimum wage and no prospects.
 
Are rural folk in these predicaments economically stuck to a point where they simply can’t afford to leave or are they emotionally stuck? Maybe educationally stuck? I just don’t know what keeps them there. The idea that a giant orange rich dude is going to bring some jobs back that he never fulfills promises on while spouting some racist nationalist bullshit?
Mainly they are economically stuck.
They come from a place with bad schools so their prospect to get out via education is severely limited. If they do get into a school, they would have to get a full scholarship in order to go because their parents can't afford to help them. I was listening to an NPR story about a young woman in a poor urban area who was attempting community college. She eventually had to drop out, not because she couldn't pay, but because she didn't have a car and couldn't rely on public transportation to get her to class on time. It's the old, how do you get a job that requires a car if you need a job to buy a car?

So here we are in a situation where there is limited education and limited support services that people can't generally rely on. The logical step is for them to just move and find a job somewhere else. But if they are living with their parents or have a house they inherited, they can't just move with no cost. Moving somewhere else requires a minimum of first and last month's rent, and possibly a security deposit and that's before you factor in transportation--of which they might or might not have. If they did inherit a house in one of these towns, they have the option to sell for a very reduced price, but if they do that, they will not have enough money to buy a house somewhere else. A job is never guaranteed--especially for an "unskilled" laborer. The same crappy service industry job they can get where they already have a house and do not have to expend money to live, would end up not paying them enough money to justify moving to a bigger city. Their prospects are already limited, so the large amount of money it would cost them to move isn't worth it if all they are qualified for is wait staff.
 
Well shit man, that sucks but like.... what are we supposed to do? Never technologically advance as a nation? Never work towards improving our planet? Never compete in trade with foreign nations? The nation has to continue moving forward. The answer is not to seclude ourselves from the world and live off of coal and liberal tears forever.

No what we’re supposed to do is bring those communities with us through incentivising companies to spread employment across the nation and not just concentrate it. By offering retraining opportunities, by having robust educational systems and by ensuring employers pay fair wages and give fair benefits. The answer is for liberals and socialists to reach out to communities and not seclude ourselves in our big cities and intellectual bubbles offering either “hard truths” or “empty platitudes”.
 
The part I hate the most about these corporate oligarchies is healthcare. They are large, have lots of money. And with the number of employees they have they should be able to negotiate better rates. Right, right?

In my personal experience, both me individually and family members where we have seen the companies we work for bought out by a even larger holding group 2 or 3 times over the last 10 years. Each time we become a part of a larger holding group our health care benefits become worse. Higher deductibles, less coverage and our monthly premiums go up. Not to mention the amount of money the company contributes towards the premium goes down. Looking over my W2, Box 12 Code DD I can see what the total cost of my healthcare Premium is. If I deduct my contribution I can work out how much my employer pays for the the plan.

One of the things I noted was when we switched over to a larger holding companies benefits, the total cost of the healthcare premium went down. From around $8,000 a year to just under $5,000. Yet my monthly premium, that I contribute went up by $20 per pay period. So the larger holding company is contributing substantially less towards our healthcare. On top of that, we saw our deductibles jump by $1,000 and we all laugh out how shity our healthcare plan is now.

Another thing I have noticed is when there is a rate increase they pass on 75% of that rate increase to the employee.

Compared to the national average, the cost of our healthcare plan is dirt cheap.

Essentially, the large holding companies are paying as little as they can for healthcare.
Yep, we got bought by a larger company and now our health care is crap.
Well shit man, that sucks but like.... what are we supposed to do? Never technologically advance as a nation? Never work towards improving our planet? Never compete in trade with foreign nations? The nation has to continue moving forward. The answer is not to seclude ourselves from the world and live off of coal and liberal tears forever.
We are supposed to acknowledge that we have real problems in our public school system, our security net system and our public services. We can't compete with other nations because we don't make anything anymore. We will never be able to compete with other nations if 50% of Americans are so economically fragile that they couldn't handle a surprise $400 bill. Taxpayers subsidize large corporations like Amazon and Wal-Mart by providing public services to a large portion of their work force. These are people that have a very close to full time job (30+ hours a week) who's wages are not substantial enough to keep them housed, fed and clothed. To me, this is far more insidious than anyone begging for coal jobs to come back because it was good money. No, I don't expect coal jobs to come back, but I do expect that if a person puts in a full day of work that they won't be on welfare rosters. That alone would help a lot.
 
Yep, we got bought by a larger company and now our health care is crap.

We are supposed to acknowledge that we have real problems in our public school system, our security net system and our public services. We can't compete with other nations because we don't make anything anymore. We will never be able to compete with other nations if 50% of Americans are so economically fragile that they couldn't handle a surprise $400 bill. Taxpayers subsidize large corporations like Amazon and Wal-Mart by providing public services to a large portion of their work force. These are people that have a very close to full time job (30+ hours a week) who's wages are not substantial enough to keep them housed, fed and clothed. To me, this is far more insidious than anyone begging for coal jobs to come back because it was good money. No, I don't expect coal jobs to come back, but I do expect that if a person puts in a full day of work that they won't be on welfare rosters. That alone would help a lot.

How much can I contribute to your political campaign?
 
Yep, we got bought by a larger company and now our health care is crap.

I swear they don't even try to negotiate a good rate on decent insurance.

They go for whatever is the cheapest option for them. Then they contribute less so the employees healthcare costs are actually more than what they were previously paying for better coverage.

They like to spin it off as a cost savings for us, the employees. Because if we stuck with the same insurance plan we previously had what we as an employee contribute each pay period would have more than doubled. Not because the premium went up by that much, but because the holding company sets what they can contribute. (Though they don't say that publically). Just happened to have heard from someone in HR that's what happened. They wanted to try to keep our old plan and offer different plans than what the new holding company offered. They did so with a previous holding company. Turns out the new larger holding company doesn't play nice with that. And doing so would make health insurance much much more costly to employees.
 
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