Political Discussion

15 years ago only 7 CEO's were paid more than $25 Million a year. Today it is the norm for CEOs of fortune 500 companies.




CEO compensations surged coming out of the recession and again with the pandemic. Meanwhile the working class has only seen stagnant wages. CEO's are not just making $25 Mil a year at that, but getting paid grossly higher amounts.

CEOs are being compensated like they are god like figures solely responsible for bringing in the revenue of a business.
And most of their fortune doesn't come from their CEO compensation, but instead the amount of company stock they are given. Often times, the wealthy like to use these stocks as collateral on loans, which banks are more than happy to give. Thus, they can be paid millions of dollars in salary, take out loans using their company stock as collateral, and if they take out enough loans, on paper, they look like they are in debt, and that's partially how they get out of paying taxes on their salaries.

Consider Bezos’ 2007, one of the years he paid zero in federal income taxes. Amazon’s stock more than doubled. Bezos’ fortune leapt $3.8 billion, according to Forbes, whose wealth estimates are widely cited. How did a person enjoying that sort of wealth explosion end up paying no income tax?

In that year, Bezos, who filed his taxes jointly with his then-wife, MacKenzie Scott, reported a paltry (for him) $46 million in income, largely from interest and dividend payments on outside investments. He was able to offset every penny he earned with losses from side investments and various deductions, like interest expenses on debts and the vague catchall category of “other expenses.”

In 2011, a year in which his wealth held roughly steady at $18 billion, Bezos filed a tax return reporting he lost money — his income that year was more than offset by investment losses. What’s more, because, according to the tax law, he made so little, he even claimed and received a $4,000 tax credit for his children.

His tax avoidance is even more striking if you examine 2006 to 2018, a period for which ProPublica has complete data. Bezos’ wealth increased by $127 billion, according to Forbes, but he reported a total of $6.5 billion in income. The $1.4 billion he paid in personal federal taxes is a massive number — yet it amounts to a 1.1% true tax rate on the rise in his fortune.


 
And most of their fortune doesn't come from their CEO compensation, but instead the amount of company stock they are given. Often times, the wealthy like to use these stocks as collateral on loans, which banks are more than happy to give. Thus, they can be paid millions of dollars in salary, take out loans using their company stock as collateral, and if they take out enough loans, on paper, they look like they are in debt, and that's partially how they get out of paying taxes on their salaries.

Consider Bezos’ 2007, one of the years he paid zero in federal income taxes. Amazon’s stock more than doubled. Bezos’ fortune leapt $3.8 billion, according to Forbes, whose wealth estimates are widely cited. How did a person enjoying that sort of wealth explosion end up paying no income tax?

In that year, Bezos, who filed his taxes jointly with his then-wife, MacKenzie Scott, reported a paltry (for him) $46 million in income, largely from interest and dividend payments on outside investments. He was able to offset every penny he earned with losses from side investments and various deductions, like interest expenses on debts and the vague catchall category of “other expenses.”

In 2011, a year in which his wealth held roughly steady at $18 billion, Bezos filed a tax return reporting he lost money — his income that year was more than offset by investment losses. What’s more, because, according to the tax law, he made so little, he even claimed and received a $4,000 tax credit for his children.

His tax avoidance is even more striking if you examine 2006 to 2018, a period for which ProPublica has complete data. Bezos’ wealth increased by $127 billion, according to Forbes, but he reported a total of $6.5 billion in income. The $1.4 billion he paid in personal federal taxes is a massive number — yet it amounts to a 1.1% true tax rate on the rise in his fortune.


The government GAVE Bezos a $4000 tax credit for his children because he "made so little" with holdings around $18 Billion... I have never felt stronger cannibalistic urges then I do reading that sentence...
 
Sometimes I wonder just how mad we should be at the billionaires specifically for the tax stuff. I mean, hate them for their rapacious greed, sure. But...it's not like Bezos is sitting down at his desktop and firing up TurboTax to avoid millions of dollars in payments to the government, you know? Guy has an army of accountants handling these assets, who I have to imagine are themselves incentivized in all kinds of terrible ways to find every loophole that exists to minimize their clients' tax liabilities. Becoming a CEO doesn't somehow automatically grant someone an intimate knowledge of tax code and payment avoidance.

Anyway, this thought brought to you by imagining a billionaire trying to import his W-2 into some buggy tax software.
Yeah, I've always had this mentality as well. I don't think billionaires should exist, but I don't blame them for using our tax laws to legally pay next to nothing. I blame the politicians who refuse or don't have the political capital to change the system.
 
Sometimes I wonder just how mad we should be at the billionaires specifically for the tax stuff. I mean, hate them for their rapacious greed, sure. But...it's not like Bezos is sitting down at his desktop and firing up TurboTax to avoid millions of dollars in payments to the government, you know? Guy has an army of accountants handling these assets, who I have to imagine are themselves incentivized in all kinds of terrible ways to find every loophole that exists to minimize their clients' tax liabilities. Becoming a CEO doesn't somehow automatically grant someone an intimate knowledge of tax code and payment avoidance.

Anyway, this thought brought to you by imagining a billionaire trying to import his W-2 into some buggy tax software.

Yeah, I've always had this mentality as well. I don't think billionaires should exist, but I don't blame them for using our tax laws to legally pay next to nothing. I blame the politicians who refuse or don't have the political capital to change the system.

I think the elephant in the room is that they use their insane wealth to influence government creation of tax law in the first place and to lobby against anyone even thinking that billionaires should even consider paying an equitable tax rate.
 
Sometimes I wonder just how mad we should be at the billionaires specifically for the tax stuff. I mean, hate them for their rapacious greed, sure. But...it's not like Bezos is sitting down at his desktop and firing up TurboTax to avoid millions of dollars in payments to the government, you know? Guy has an army of accountants handling these assets, who I have to imagine are themselves incentivized in all kinds of terrible ways to find every loophole that exists to minimize their clients' tax liabilities. Becoming a CEO doesn't somehow automatically grant someone an intimate knowledge of tax code and payment avoidance.

Anyway, this thought brought to you by imagining a billionaire trying to import his W-2 into some buggy tax software.
That's definitely what's happening, and I completely understand using the loop holes to pay less taxes, but to claim that $4000 tax credit? That's not meant for him. What even is $4000 to a guy like Bezos? Like... that's too far, to me. It'd be like a CEO leaving his office in a New York Sky Scraper and walking down to the soup kitchen in a ratty coat, getting a free lunch, then heading back to his top floor office.
 
That's definitely what's happening, and I completely understand using the loop holes to pay less taxes, but to claim that $4000 tax credit? That's not meant for him. What even is $4000 to a guy like Bezos? Like... that's too far, to me. It'd be like a CEO leaving his office in a New York Sky Scraper and walking down to the soup kitchen in a ratty coat, getting a free lunch, then heading back to his top floor office.
It takes Bezos 0.03 minutes to make $4,000 according to a handy calculator that I found from Google.

Edit: To be clear this wasn't a "let me Google this for you post", but reading over my wording it may have come across that way - sorry!
 
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It takes Bezos 0.03 minutes to make $4,000 according to a handy calculator that I found from Google.

Edit: To be clear this wasn't a "let me Google this for you post", but reading over my wording it may have come across that way - sorry!
lol, I did not take it that way. I just couldn't choose between the wow, sad, or anger emojis.
 
Yeah but I guess what I'm saying is that it's more like Bezos' assistant going down and getting that free soup and then bringing it back to him. The buck stops with him, no doubt. But it wouldn't surprise me at. all. if he learned about his claim of that tax credit through the same news story that you and I learned about it from. He's just some guy paying other people with a mission statement that I imagine amounts to "keep me rich and save me money." To Joe's point, that directive obviously has far-reaching and profound implications in how it's applied by the people who have a financial incentive to do so. But how far into the weeds is he personally going about each and every deduction or credit? I genuinely don't know the answer to the question of just how familiar the hyper-rich are with their own taxes.

You're most likely correct that he's probably not telling someone "get me that damn child credit or you're fired!" and probably doesn't even know about it. But he should, because it's being done in his name and when the guillotines get built, no one's going to reach for the executive assistants first.
 
It really frees Texas and Florida up to beg for other things instead.



He may be begging for votes also.

 
He may be begging for votes also.

LOL, welcome to human nature. They all support him and get all "MERICA"ed up while nothing is effecting them, now that more and more are getting sick and that same group is "all of a sudden" getting sick they're looking for someone to blame..........even if he was their voice of reason a month ago. Trumps America on full display.
 
I think the elephant in the room is that they use their insane wealth to influence government creation of tax law in the first place and to lobby against anyone even thinking that billionaires should even consider paying an equitable tax rate.
This is the biggest problem I have with billionaires. It's not that they avoid paying taxes, it's that they get laws specifically tailored to them and their business interests. The issue I have is that they are eroding our capitalism and our democracy because they have such undo influence. And they continually use that influence to gain more wealth while passing laws that make it easier to take and exploit from us for their benefit and we are all left holding the bags. The only socialism going on in America is corporate socialism. When we, as tax payers, have to bail out big banks because they make bad business decisions, when we subsidize Bezos's jaunt into space, we are not only letting these guys off the hook, but we are actually paying out more in taxes TO them, so that their businesses can be profitable. If your business plan banks on your employees being able to get government aid, you don't have a profitable business.
Yeah but I guess what I'm saying is that it's more like Bezos' assistant going down and getting that free soup and then bringing it back to him. The buck stops with him, no doubt. But it wouldn't surprise me at. all. if he learned about his claim of that tax credit through the same news story that you and I learned about it from. He's just some guy paying other people with a mission statement that I imagine amounts to "keep me rich and save me money." To Joe's point, that directive obviously has far-reaching and profound implications in how it's applied by the people who have a financial incentive to do so. But how far into the weeds is he personally going about each and every deduction or credit? I genuinely don't know the answer to the question of just how familiar the hyper-rich are with their own taxes.
Oh I'm sure it's a lackey that does all of this, but it's not so much that I get annoyed that they use loop holes, but moreso that they are usually the ones advocating to congress to keep all their loopholes in place. I also get very annoyed when tax payers are expected to subsidize private business or private individuals (like Bezos in Space) but we don't get anything for it. We didn't get any stock for bailing out banks or helping billionaires get to space. These individuals and their companies are supposedly making money hand over fist. If that's true, then why is it that the taxpayer constantly has to bail out corporations? If these corporations are ducking out on taxes, should they get taxpayer funds? Why didn't we get anything from AIG for helping bail them out? Why don't we send WalMart the bill for the government aid that their employees are forced to accept because WM doesn't pay a living wage?

The problem I have with all of it is that these corporations and billionaires hire a bevy of lawyers and accountants to make sure they pay as little taxes as they can, and then turn around and ask for tax payer money constantly. They constantly whine that they should be where they are because of capitalism, but with their influence making laws, they push anti-competitive legislation to keep them where they are. I know that if I have never worked or only worked part time, I wouldn't be eligible for unemployment services, because I never paid into the system. We need to start demanding that they pay into the system if they want something out of it. And we should be getting financial assets from these corporations and people whenever we bail them out.
 
In other news, woke white people need to stop saying Latinx

I always hear this statement (about "woke white people" using that term), yet most people I know who use Latinx are actually part of that group. I think of it the same way as people who refuse to recognize someone's pronouns.
 
In other news, woke white people need to stop saying Latinx

But that isn’t what this poll is really indicating. It‘s more saying that woke white people (along with whomever else) can call us whatever as long as it’s not a racial slur or epithet.
 
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