This is a great question! Sometimes values is too human centric. Where would society be without dirt and water. If we sum up the creative and destructive affects of these two things we would probably end up net positive, but with humans that’s more questionable.
Exactly. What makes human life so special in the grand scheme of things. We probably house more bacteria and ecosystems than we care to think about. Should we be considered sacred vessels for the bacteria in our colons? Are we their god?
Self awareness is both a curse and a blessing.
On this same thought, is pooping murder or giving birth?
Why does the affect on the individual matter at all? Hat makes the individual worthy of any consideration whatsoever?
Because the well-being of society both involves the functioning of the collective as well as the individual. They are two things that must be balanced. One does not trump the other.
I mean, I don’t think having a rigid stance is a bad faith argument. It might be bad faith for us to assume we can sway him. But he’s been respectful here.
Why?
I’d posit he makes a lot of degrading, ad hominem attacks towards people who hold an opposing worldview, but couches that by never saying “you’re stupid or a liar,” but rather “those who believe are either stupid or a liar.” He sidesteps disagreeing points with “hey that’s my belief,” but also lumps disagreeing viewpoints in with that of eugenicists (a turd in the punch bowl that caused me to simply give up direct engagement) and will stretch/contract the scope of debate to allow whatever point he’s making to fit within it, to the exclusion of other viewpoints.
www.cnn.com
There’s not a binary though. People through their sentience and consciousness place a value on themselves. This is a correct view point. Society agrees in that specialness and propagates the view point.
This isn’t about good/bad vibes. The nature of the discourse of this thread will often leave those good vibes at the door.
“He may be unpleasant, but you called him a name” about sums it up. I’m stepping away.
The "pro-life" branding that anti-abortion groups like to use is nothing more than a plastic and self-righteous way for them to pretend their stance is in any way about helping children, when we consistently see the same right-wing nutjobs who propagate this kind of rhetoric have very little regard for the wellbeing of America's youth. I can't imagine how terrifying it is to be a kid in today's school system or even just society in general, and I'm among the younger members on here. There's just no talking reason to a political stance that says "we're going to force a child to be born, consequences be damned" and then turns around and refuses to do anything to ensure that the child can live a safe, happy life in this country.
That’s not what I asked. It’s a response operating off of the assumption that the question I have asked has been answered in a certain way, but doesn’t answer the question itself.
I don’t believe the conversation we are having is of a cosmic scale, but one of the interaction between the individual and society. (I also disagree with your cosmic view, but it is immaterial to the discussion at hand.)
Yes. Where does the value of any individual human life arise from?
Can you just go ahead and answer the first question for us? I feel like we are just trying to solve a riddle you made up on the spot.
I mean his answer is yes, it has value in and of itself. I disagree mostly because on a cosmic scale it is hubris. Our rights are defined by our sentience and consciousness in his opinion, which makes them null and void as they are human constructs.