I think it’s hard to make that assumption that this was some sort of plan derailed by Johnson. JJ has been pretty friendly in the press to Rian’s ideas, and I’m not so convinced the answers this film provides are what he had in mind in TFA. In fact based on what we know about his approach to LOST from what Lindelof dishes out, he likely didn’t have answers at the time.
Who’s to say where the blame lies with the sidelining, JJ, Terrio, the studio, but including her instead of new characters would have felt a little more genuine, sort of like how Lando has a lot less screentime in ROTJ but still leads the charge on the DS II as a general, or how Jar Jar gets to be a representative of Naboo.
Overall you can only blame poor planning as you suggest vs any one filmmaker.
I thought this movie had a lot of JJs worst tendencies on display, but I also think that can be blamed on the incredibly short production cycle. There were a lot of first-draft ideas here.
So, the co-writer said that your spoiler point was actually one of the last things JJ cut from the force awakens. Cause they felt they were trying to cram too much into the one movie. You don’t have to like it, but it’s disingenuous to describe it the way that you did.
But aren’t you using “fan service” as a pejorative? Why would something that serves “narrative and thematic purpose within the film,” be something that you’d find pejorative? Unless it’s just you don’t like the narrative or thematic purpose, I’m very confused.
Well I'm suggesting it's a trickled down term, the anime misogyny is just the origin. It's really just content that winks at the audience (in that case younger male, but in this case just SW obsessives) and the larger cultural conversation beyond the media itself.
For me that moment was just poorly placed and one too many as @kvetcha suggests in a huge platter of them. It's funny because it's something that made the friend I went with (more casual fan) go "huh?" as it's such a SW nerd joke. That's really my point with some of this stuff, it's not really a callback because the reference point isn't even in the media itself, so at that point its a speed bump in the film that got a cheer from one member in my audience. Even though I "got it" these nods to online conversations and fan theories that felt off to me as it didn't feel genuine to this story, and particularly made me groan because
characters actually featured in this trilogy especially Rose got the finger from the filmmakers.
But aren’t you using “fan service” as a pejorative? Why would something that serves “narrative and thematic purpose within the film,” be something that you’d find pejorative? Unless it’s just you don’t like the narrative or thematic purpose, I’m very confused.
I agree, and don’t forget Trevorrow was in that cocktail as well. My initial reaction was bewilderment, none of them are remotely similar. Trevorrows blockbusters are way tackier than JJs, and he has serious gender blindspots so I’m certain he would have been a bigger disaster.
Still I think it could have worked if not for the tug of war. Alfonso Cuarón moved a lot of Hogwarts around and switched up the mise en scene and tone for his Harry Potter film. It works because when Newell came in for Goblet he let that stuff lie rather than moving it back again. Either way the filmmakers were set up to fail by the studio system.
Speaking of the tug of war, I find it curious how folks who liked TLJ are grousing about the abandoned plot threads in ROS but didn’t have much, if any, problem with the way TLJ did that to almost all of the setups from TFA. Regardless of what either JJ or RJ may say about each other’s ideas in the press, the proof is in the pudding of the films regarding what they actually thought. That seemed to carry through with the fans of their respective SW outings.
Speaking of the tug of war, I find it curious how folks who liked TLJ are grousing about the abandoned plot threads in ROS but didn’t have much, if any, problem with the way TLJ did that to almost all of the setups from TFA. Regardless of what either JJ or RJ May say about each other’s ideas in the press, the proof is in the pudding of the films regarding what they actually thought.
I wouldn’t have cared if JJ had crafted a story that was worth a damn. The movie felt like a checklist of every idea they brainstormed the first day in the writer’s room.
Speaking of the tug of war, I find it curious how folks who liked TLJ are grousing about the abandoned plot threads in ROS but didn’t have much, if any, problem with the way TLJ did that to almost all of the setups from TFA. Regardless of what either JJ or RJ may say about each other’s ideas in the press, the proof is in the pudding of the films regarding what they actually thought. That seemed to carry through with the fans of their respective SW outings.
Sorry, I've been down with the flu the last two days, I'm not in the greatest mood.
To answer your question more directly: of course I decide the value with regards to my opinion of the film. But at the same time, there are generally accepted standards of storytelling by which TRoS was deficient. TFA and TLJ were both jam-packed with fan service as well, but you could strip that away and still have a movie underneath. Not sure that's the case here.
Yeah LOST is a great example. Lindelof said the hatch was JJ’s idea, a powerful image and interesting problem for the cast to open. When Lindelof asked JJ what was in the hatch he said he had no clue but had faith they would figure it out later on. Then he dipped to do MI III lol.
I think Rian really did similar stuff to what Damon did with LOST. Sure Damon came up with all the Dharma crap, but really the story of the hatch is one of Desmonds isolation and routine. It wasn’t really about the mystery being solved but using the mystery as another avenue to tell the story. I liked that about TLJ too, mysteries aren’t solved with scifi answers.
It is, but TLJ didn’t just leave threads from TFA unanswered, it closed them with a dismissive toss over the shoulder by some drunk junk traders. These setups were intended to be major threads through the entire trilogy and that was shown by JJ retconning so much of TLJ to come back to that story.
Wow, I really loved Rise of Skywalker. Easily my favorite of the trilogy! My brother and I rewatched the entire saga before seeing it today, and it was an amazing way to end. I truly don't understand the hate for it. I'm not a superfan or anything, so maybe that's why, but I couldn't be more pleased with the film.
Wow, I really loved Rise of Skywalker. Easily my favorite of the trilogy! My brother and I rewatched the entire saga before seeing it today, and it was an amazing way to end. I truly don't understand the hate for it. I'm not a superfan or anything, so maybe that's why, but I couldn't be more pleased with the film.
Yep, that's the impression I got as well! Also don't take RT scores too seriously, but its score is extremely harsh. Especially considering the last two are both 90%-ish if I recall
