STAR WARS! STAR WARS! STAR WARS

gouis said:
Critics are also part of the culture war unfortunately.
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I think you might be hyperbolizing a bit as the majority of the criticism around this film was about the pacing and tone, not the cultural implications. Film critics get almost no respect from average audiences for the work they do, which is to critically analyze a film that they would very much like to enjoy. I would also point most academic film studies/theory approach is from a valid sociological POV (ie Marxist theory, feminist theory, queer theory etc) and has been for decades, which has seeped into popular criticism. Still I think you'll find most critics are really just aiming to express if they enjoyed a film and if it's worth your time.

IMO film criticism is valid and necessary for every film, but I fully understand there's films where you don't want to think about them critically at all. I will never begrudge someone for saying SW is a perfect example of those types of films, but many of us do like to be critical about them.
 
So watching The Last Jedi again, and yeah I still really enjoy it. Still think some of the jokes are awkward and don't work, but as a whole I enjoy pretty much everything else in it.

Heading back to Rise Of Skywalker tomorrow. This time in IMAX. Hope it'll win me over this time.
 
zombie.modernist said:
I think you might be hyperbolizing a bit as the majority of the criticism around this film was about the pacing and tone, not the cultural implications. Film critics get almost no respect from average audiences for the work they do, which is to critically analyze a film that they would very much like to enjoy. I would also point most academic film studies/theory approach is from a valid sociological POV (ie Marxist theory, feminist theory, queer theory etc) and has been for decades, which has seeped into popular criticism. Still I think you'll find most critics are really just aiming to express if they enjoyed a film and if it's worth your time.

IMO film criticism is valid and necessary for every film, but I fully understand there's films where you don't want to think about them critically at all. I will never begrudge someone for saying SW is a perfect example of those types of films, but many of us do like to be critical about them.
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Yeah, I gotta say that after the first two sentences of your post, everything else you wrote only bolstered the point that Gouis was making.
 
zombie.modernist said:
I think you might be hyperbolizing a bit as the majority of the criticism around this film was about the pacing and tone, not the cultural implications. Film critics get almost no respect from average audiences for the work they do, which is to critically analyze a film that they would very much like to enjoy. I would also point most academic film studies/theory approach is from a valid sociological POV (ie Marxist theory, feminist theory, queer theory etc) and has been for decades, which has seeped into popular criticism. Still I think you'll find most critics are really just aiming to express if they enjoyed a film and if it's worth your time.

IMO film criticism is valid and necessary for every film, but I fully understand there's films where you don't want to think about them critically at all. I will never begrudge someone for saying SW is a perfect example of those types of films, but many of us do like to be critical about them.
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OK boomer.

In reality follow a lot of film criticism and heavily engage in it. The problem is they are mostly very much “online”. So they decided they were TLJ people and what that says about them. So when rumblings came out that tRoS was anti-TLJ they had their basis set. Also I liked TLJ more but this idea that this movie is worse than any of the prequels is laughable.
 
gouis said:
Also I liked TLJ more but this idea that this movie is worse than any of the prequels is laughable.
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I preferred The Last Jedi too but this was a decent film, not without its issues, that tied up the trilogy and did it’s job serviceably. I enjoyed it but can’t ever see myself lauding it.

To anyone who preferred any of the prequels. You’d rather watch endless senate debates on tax tariffs? The worst dialogue of all time? Especially the love scenes? These had some of the best actors of the 9 but they end up looking horrendous in them! Hayden Christiansen? My coffee table had more dramatic range. Terrible CGI that looks worse with every year that passes? Always annoying, often outright racist parody, Jar Jar? Those films were bad very very bad. These 3 were enjoyable, the middle one was very good, that’s my take.
 
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gouis said:
OK boomer.

In reality follow a lot of film criticism and heavily engage in it. The problem is they are mostly very much “online”. So they decided they were TLJ people and what that says about them. So when rumblings came out that tRoS was anti-TLJ they had their basis set. Also I liked TLJ more but this idea that this movie is worse than any of the prequels is laughable.
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Lollll I’m 25, and you’re the one insinuating there’s some great “culture war”, which is about the most boomer take on the whole situation, that “SJW” critics have it out for JJ’s masterpiece. Perhaps I’m not getting your point but you’ve been pretty hesitant to nail it down for fear of being political.

Personally I don’t get how it’s bad that pop culture critics have opinions on culture and internet topics. Are they supposed to be reviewing art out of context? Without their POV or opinions? There’s obviously some conflicts of interest, like the critics that are friends with RJ who can’t really be unbiased, but that’s a minority when it comes to the 400+ reviews aggregated for RT.

I’ll agree with you on the prequels, by all technical measures they suck. The first two are painful to watch. I enjoy ROTS enough but it’s faults are glaring as well. I’d rather forced to watch TROS 15 times than the TPM once lol.
 
zombie.modernist said:
Lollll I’m 25, and you’re the one insinuating there’s some great “culture war”, which is about the most boomer take on the whole situation, that “SJW” critics have it out for JJ’s masterpiece. Perhaps I’m not getting your point but you’ve been pretty hesitant to nail it down for fear of being political.

Personally I don’t get how it’s bad that pop culture critics have opinions on culture and internet topics. Are they supposed to be reviewing art out of context? Without their POV or opinions? There’s obviously some conflicts of interest, like the critics that are friends with RJ who can’t really be unbiased, but that’s a minority when it comes to the 400+ reviews aggregated for RT.

I’ll agree with you on the prequels, by all technical measures they suck. The first two are painful to watch. I enjoy ROTS enough but it’s faults are glaring as well. I’d rather forced to watch TROS 15 times than the TPM once lol.
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Boomer is a mindset.

Also I didn’t say it was “good” I said it was fine and not as good as either the last two. Not a “masterpiece”.
 
gouis said:
Boomer is a mindset.

Also I didn’t say it was “good” I said it was fine and not as good as either the last two. Not a “masterpiece”.
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Yeah sorry I don’t see how my mindset is regressive and yours isn’t. But you seem more interested in petty one-liners than engaging in a conversation.

“Fine” is about how I’d rate it, which is in line with the middle of the road RT and MC scores for the film as well. Still don’t know what you’re upset about with the reviews.
 
zombie.modernist said:
Yeah sorry I don’t see how my mindset is regressive and yours isn’t. But you seem more interested in petty one-liners than engaging in a conversation.

“Fine” is about how I’d rate it, which is in line with the middle of the road RT and MC scores for the film as well. Still don’t know what you’re upset about with the reviews.
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Okay
 
Since my flu is finally subsiding, I will take the opportunity to share a few good, Star-Warsy things I did like about TRoS:

1) Babu Frik
2) Piglet Coachella, as Blank Check called the festival on Pasaana.
3) Those rad Imperial catapult-tread bikes with deployable jetpack troopers.
4) The destruction of the transport.
5) Ian McDiarmid once again bringing the camp.
6) A lot of the film's visual design.
7) The little droid with trust issues.
8) Keri Russell's butt.
9) Keri Russell's helmet.
10) Intentional use of ForceTime to teleport objects.
 
JonnyH said:
Truly this is the darkest timeline. View attachment 27555
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Thanks for sharing this. I really fear I was misunderstood earlier with the petty back and forth. It breaks my heart to see what should be non-controversial elements of these films like the race and gender of characters weaponized by the MAGA right to fit their agenda.

Some of my objections to this new film are shared with the author of this piece, as I fear it seemingly bows to this crap which based on the article wasn't even held by many real fans. #RoseTicoDeservedBetter is currently trending on Twitter, and that remains my number one complaint with the treatment of the characters in this film. Again I can't knock anyone for enjoying this and I do overall, but I do feel annoyed by how so much of the plot seems to play into the hands of angry rightwing "critics." I know a lot of folks just feel it's Star Wars and should just be enjoyed and maybe I should just try to do that, but I think it really sends a bad message for a lot of folks out there who felt seen / heard by the prior film. Just my POV, which doesn't seem to go over too well so with this I'll shut up about this movie.
 
zombie.modernist said:
Thanks for sharing this. I really fear I was misunderstood earlier with the petty back and forth. It breaks my heart to see what should be non-controversial elements of these films like the race and gender of characters weaponized by the MAGA right to fit their agenda.

Some of my objections to this new film are shared with the author of this piece, as I fear it seemingly bows to this crap which based on the article wasn't even held by many real fans. #RoseTicoDeservedBetter is currently trending on Twitter, and that remains my number one complaint with the treatment of the characters in this film. Again I can't knock anyone for enjoying this and I do overall, but I do feel annoyed by how so much of the plot seems to play into the hands of angry rightwing "critics." I know a lot of folks just feel it's Star Wars and should just be enjoyed and maybe I should just try to do that, but I think it really sends a bad message for a lot of folks out there who felt seen / heard by the prior film. Just my POV, which doesn't seem to go over too well so with this I'll shut up about this movie.
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I enjoyed it. I don’t expect great cinema from Star Wars, it’s never been that. But yah, 100% my biggest complaint of the new movie is Rose. Anything else is minor plot whatever in a long film series that’s never been great at maintaining its own plot.
 
JonnyH said:
I enjoyed it. I don’t expect great cinema from Star Wars, it’s never been that. But yah, 100% my biggest complaint of the new movie is Rose. Anything else is minor plot whatever in a long film series that’s never been great at maintaining its own plot.
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Good perspective, I think my issue was TLJ raised the bar and I got a little too excited by that. The other thing I should t have done was watch TLJ the night before TRoS lol. I’ll agree that as silly as it gets at times nothing in TRoS is unprecedented in SW beyond Rose-gate because even when Jar Jar got less screentime he got a promotion!
 
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