Sutherland Club House

Angsty said:
I have experienced burn-in more with carts than equipment, likely because I buy most of my equipment used. With carts, for the first 50-100 hours, I find that they can sound “uptight”, as if there is a limitation on timbre, decay and warmth. Around 100 hours, they seem to “relax” and “bloom” a bit such that you get the sense that the cart has fully reached its ability to respond to the grooves.

I’m sure there are more scientific descriptors, but that’s the sensation I get.
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Good vibrations, man, good vibrations. 🎈
 
Ghost said:
Oh my bad, I def believe in burn in (for some components) but more so was wondering why you’re curious enough to track the hours? Do you use it to have a reference point in determining when a cart is on its way out?
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Yes, I do track hours to determine when it might be time to replace before the stylus can be worn enough to damage records.
 
Angsty said:
Yes, I do track hours to determine when it might be time to replace before the stylus can be worn enough to damage records.
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If you are listening intently you can tell when things are off with your cartridge well before any signs of record damage might become audible. If you hear distortion from your records you have waited far too long. Again, this applies if you are really listening to the music and are intimate with your system.
 
OMC said:
If you are listening intently you can tell when things are off with your cartridge well before any signs of record damage might become audible. If you hear distortion from your records you have waited far too long. Again, this applies if you are really listening to the music and are intimate with your system.
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What @Angsty does with his system behind closed doors is his business…
 
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This is difficult to describe so bear with me, but things sound "quieter" with the Insight, to the point I'm I'm pushing 5-10db more than what I was previously listening at. Gain of my previous phono was 40 db, which I'm running at here, so not entirely sure if there's an explainable reason for that. Anyone got any (pause) insight into what's going on?

For the record this isn't a complaint, just a curiosity.
 
ngower said:
This is difficult to describe so bear with me, but things sound "quieter" with the Insight, to the point I'm I'm pushing 5-10db more than what I was previously listening at. Gain of my previous phono was 40 db, which I'm running at here, so not entirely sure if there's an explainable reason for that. Anyone got any (pause) insight into what's going on?

For the record this isn't a complaint, just a curiosity.
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Doesn't make too much sense to me. This stuff is mathematics. Have you tried a quick A/B to confirm the exact difference? And you're sure the other phono is 40db on the dot?
 
kvetcha said:
Doesn't make too much sense to me. This stuff is mathematics. Have you tried a quick A/B to confirm the exact difference? And you're sure the other phono is 40db on the dot?
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Not A/B-ing because I don't care enough but using the same SPL meters (my phone and my watch) I'm playing 65-75db where before I was 60-70db. Bass feels slightly "thinner" on some records as well.

My prior phono only had two settings for MM: 40 and 50db, and 50 could clip/distort and so it was always at 40db.
 
ngower said:
This is difficult to describe so bear with me, but things sound "quieter" with the Insight, to the point I'm I'm pushing 5-10db more than what I was previously listening at. Gain of my previous phono was 40 db, which I'm running at here, so not entirely sure if there's an explainable reason for that. Anyone got any (pause) insight into what's going on?

For the record this isn't a complaint, just a curiosity.
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You can always move the Insight gain up to 45 dB if you feel like you’re having to turn the volume knob too much. Possible that there could be a 3-6 dB variance in the actual gain between the two phonos.
 
ngower said:
Not A/B-ing because I don't care enough but using the same SPL meters (my phone and my watch) I'm playing 65-75db where before I was 60-70db. Bass feels slightly "thinner" on some records as well.

My prior phono only had two settings for MM: 40 and 50db, and 50 could clip/distort and so it was always at 40db.
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I’m confused. You turned it up and it’s louder?
 
ngower said:
Not A/B-ing because I don't care enough but using the same SPL meters (my phone and my watch) I'm playing 65-75db where before I was 60-70db. Bass feels slightly "thinner" on some records as well.

My prior phono only had two settings for MM: 40 and 50db, and 50 could clip/distort and so it was always at 40db.
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Also, a flatter frequency response may make a phono sound quieter. It seems like the prior phono may have had a bit of bass boost in the frequency curve compared to the Insight.
 
Lee Newman said:
I’m confused. You turned it up and it’s louder?
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I believe he’s saying he had to turn it up louder to reach a volume that felt equivalent, which would imply the Sutherland was under-amplifying or his previous phono was over-amplifying (or, as @Angsty mentioned, there is a difference in the equalization that gives the other phono an impression of more loudness).
 
kvetcha said:
I believe he’s saying he had to turn it up louder to reach a volume that felt equivalent, which would imply the Sutherland was under-amplifying or his previous phono was over-amplifying (or, as @Angsty mentioned, there is a difference in the equalization that gives the other phono an impression of more loudness).
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This.

The "knob" that is normally at 9-ish is now at 11-ish.

I also have had an ongoing, year-long saga trying to figure out what in my system is causing channel dropouts (I have tried everything here) and suspect this is just the latest in that saga.
 
ngower said:
This.

The "knob" that is normally at 9-ish is now at 11-ish.

I also have had an ongoing, year-long saga trying to figure out what in my system is causing channel dropouts (I have tried everything here) and suspect this is just the latest in that saga.
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I hear what you are saying, but…
ngower said:
Not A/B-ing because I don't care enough but using the same SPL meters (my phone and my watch) I'm playing 65-75db where before I was 60-70db. Bass feels slightly "thinner" on some records as well.

My prior phono only had two settings for MM: 40 and 50db, and 50 could clip/distort and so it was always at 40db.
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You’ve turned the knob up and you are measuring louder.
 
Lee Newman said:
I hear what you are saying, but…

You’ve turned the knob up and you are measuring louder.
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I have a limited amount of energy right now so I'll try to articulate my position once more:

I have to raise the volume to achieve comparable levels of "dynamics" and "bass" and the like as previously. If I was listening at 60db before, it was enjoyable. If I'm listening at 60db now, it is appreciably quieter. As I stated from the start, it's a very tricky thing to describe.
 
ngower said:
I have a limited amount of energy right now so I'll try to articulate my position once more:

I have to raise the volume to achieve comparable levels of "dynamics" and "bass" and the like as previously. If I was listening at 60db before, it was enjoyable. If I'm listening at 60db now, it is appreciably quieter. As I stated from the start, it's a very tricky thing to describe.
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Gotcha.
 
ngower said:
I have a limited amount of energy right now so I'll try to articulate my position once more:

I have to raise the volume to achieve comparable levels of "dynamics" and "bass" and the like as previously. If I was listening at 60db before, it was enjoyable. If I'm listening at 60db now, it is appreciably quieter. As I stated from the start, it's a very tricky thing to describe.
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This was my experience of going from the Vincent Pho 8 to the Insight. Everything was clearer but I did feel like I had to crank the volume more to get some of the low-end back.

That said. It's so clear at louder volumes that sometimes I don't know how loud it truly is until someone tries to talk to me while I'm listening and suddenly I can't really hear them unless they shout.
 
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