The Dark Side; Digital audio equipment recommendations and setup.

Okay so I did a test, Spotify through Apple TV 4K playing Wish You Were Here. Same track through Node 3 Spotify, then same track through Node 3 Tidal CD quality. My Arcam 550 has a Cirrus CS42528 DAC. I have no idea how good or bad that is compared to the Node 3 upgraded DAC because I can't find any info on what the upgraded DAC actually is. But in terms of sound I found that the Apple TV 4K Spotify that's coming down a HDMI through my Arcam 550 DAC was the worst. But it wasn't as bad comparably as I thought. It was definitely decent, I may have to do a blind test, but that would require me to convince my wife to execute the test, and I fear that about 3 minutes into my 18 minute instructional presentation on how to use the stereo she would likely murder me and then go for a cocktail. BUT I DIGRESS... It wasn't bad and I suspect that's down to the DAC in my amp being pretty decent.

Not surprisingly second best was the Spotify through the Node 3 which is coming down RCAs to the Arcam, just a bit more presence and a bit more dynamics. But very very close.


The winner again not surprisingly was the Tidal CD quality through the Node 3. Lots of little details were present that couldn't be heard in the Spotify versions, much fuller, more dynamic. Although Tidal is definitely doing something to their EQ, everything is much more bass heavy through Tidal. So much so that I went though and checked my settings and I actually had my sub down .5 DB on the Node3 input and it's still CLEARLY far more bass heavy than the Spotify. That could be down to the lower res stripping a lot of that out, but I don't think so because these are even really bassy compared to my same albums on vinyl. So I think there are some shenanigans going on with the Tidal streams. But it's not bad, just not wholly accurate.
 
Mather said:
I guess that would work but I'd have to only use CD quality tracks from Tidal I guess? Is Spotify even CD quality?
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Spotify isn't doing CD quality *yet* but it's coming this year. I decided not to renew my annual Tidal in anticipation. Also, even when Tidal does MQA, that is basically just an authorized remaster of the original recording was in CD quality, and most things are.
Mather said:
Okay so I did a test, Spotify through Apple TV 4K playing Wish You Were Here. Same track through Node 3 Spotify, then same track through Node 3 Tidal CD quality. My Arcam 550 has a Cirrus CS42528 DAC. I have no idea how good or bad that is compared to the Node 3 upgraded DAC because I can't find any info on what the upgraded DAC actually is. But in terms of sound I found that the Apple TV 4K Spotify that's coming down a HDMI through my Arcam 550 DAC was the worst. But it wasn't as bad comparably as I thought. It was definitely decent, I may have to do a blind test, but that would require me to convince my wife to execute the test, and I fear that about 3 minutes into my 18 minute instructional presentation on how to use the stereo she would likely murder me and then go for a cocktail. BUT I DIGRESS... It wasn't bad and I suspect that's down to the DAC in my amp being pretty decent.

Not surprisingly second best was the Spotify through the Node 3 which is coming down RCAs to the Arcam, just a bit more presence and a bit more dynamics. But very very close.


The winner again not surprisingly was the Tidal CD quality through the Node 3. Lots of little details were present that couldn't be heard in the Spotify versions, much fuller, more dynamic. Although Tidal is definitely doing something to their EQ, everything is much more bass heavy through Tidal. So much so that I went though and checked my settings and I actually had my sub down .5 DB on the Node3 input and it's still CLEARLY far more bass heavy than the Spotify. That could be down to the lower res stripping a lot of that out, but I don't think so because these are even really bassy compared to my same albums on vinyl. So I think there are some shenanigans going on with the Tidal streams. But it's not bad, just not wholly accurate.
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This is so much more elaborate than I was thinking, lol. I was suggesting sit the Mrs. down. Play a track from Tidal via Node, play the same track from Spotify though the Node. Mix it up a couple times. The end. See if she can pick it out. I was suggesting don't even fiddle with format matching. Just use as normal for each service. But you went well above and beyond!
 
displayname said:
Also, even when Tidal does MQA, that is basically just an authorized remaster of the original recording was in CD quality, and most things are.
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I’m highly sceptical that professional studios were widespread recording in 16/44.1. Home or lo-fi recordings for sure but I’d be shocked if the majority of master recordings were recorded there rather than recorded higher and compressed.

That’s not to mention the scores of older stuff that would have originally been done to tape and transferred or the newer stuff where data storage isn’t so much a cost issue and even pro tools at home will let you do 24/96 recordings.
 
Joe Mac said:
I’m highly sceptical that professional studios were widespread recording in 16/44.1. Home or lo-fi recordings for sure but I’d be shocked if the majority of master recordings were recorded there rather than recorded higher and compressed.

That’s not to mention the scores of older stuff that would have originally been done to tape and transferred or the newer stuff where data storage isn’t so much a cost issue and even pro tools at home will let you do 24/96 recordings.
Click to expand...
Yeah I mean I'm not sure what's going on with MQA, they claim it can be as high as 9200 kbps. But they have many albums that have both CD and MQA versions available and the MQA is the closest thing I've ever heard to vinyl and absolutely crushes the CD branded masters every time. So I don't think it's simply a different CD master with MQA slapped on it. Maybe in some cases? But it's pretty night and day.
 
Mather said:
Yeah I mean I'm not sure what's going on with MQA, they claim it can be as high as 9200 kbps. But they have many albums that have both CD and MQA versions available and the MQA is the closest thing I've ever heard to vinyl and absolutely crushes the CD branded masters every time. So I don't think it's simply a different CD master with MQA slapped on it. Maybe in some cases? But it's pretty night and day.
Click to expand...

MQA is essentially proprietary DRM and lossless compression. It should in essence be a 24 bit file, of whatever sample rate, the same as the Hi Res FLAC files in Qobuz.

There is likely some EQ tomfoolery in there too because experts suggest that supposedly the same reissues in Tidal sound different/better to Qobuz. I’m not sure I have the digital gear to tell that thin a difference apart though!

I just don’t think there is some big conspiracy upmixing CD quality and selling it as Tidal MQA/Masters or Qobuz Hi Res. There is plenty in both clearly marked as CD level quality and it includes nearly all the mainstream 90s-00s stuff that would be the prime suspect for corners cut in recording/mastering. It’s really rare that you see something of that era marked hi res.
 
Legitimately surprised you're not trying Apple Music since Lossless is at-no-cost and it also includes upload of your personal library to the cloud.
 
Joe Mac said:
MQA is essentially proprietary DRM and lossless compression. It should in essence be a 24 bit file, of whatever sample rate, the same as the Hi Res FLAC files in Qobuz.

There is likely some EQ tomfoolery in there too because experts suggest that supposedly the same reissues in Tidal sound different/better to Qobuz. I’m not sure I have the gear to tell that thin a difference apart though!

I just don’t think there is some big conspiracy upmixing CDs quality and selling it as Tidal MQA/Masters or Qobuz. There is plenty in both clearly marked as CD level quality and it includes nearly all the mainstream 90s-00s stuff that would be the prime suspect for corners cut in recording/mastering. It’s really rare that you see something of that era marked hi res.
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Yeah I mean I just know what my ears tell me and a lot of the high res stuff is very clearly above cd quality. It's not my vinyl quality, but it's like... 75% of my vinyl quality. But missing the stage and imaging that comes off my TT. The CD stuff sounds good for sure, but it's not particularly close.

Like I said before, Dylan "Man In The Long Black Coat" Master quality. There is no way no how that's simply a up converted CD master, it's stunning. It's the best thing I've ever heard digitally come out of my system by an absolute landslide.
 
Mather said:
Okay so I did a test, Spotify through Apple TV 4K playing Wish You Were Here. Same track through Node 3 Spotify, then same track through Node 3 Tidal CD quality. My Arcam 550 has a Cirrus CS42528 DAC. I have no idea how good or bad that is compared to the Node 3 upgraded DAC because I can't find any info on what the upgraded DAC actually is. But in terms of sound I found that the Apple TV 4K Spotify that's coming down a HDMI through my Arcam 550 DAC was the worst. But it wasn't as bad comparably as I thought. It was definitely decent, I may have to do a blind test, but that would require me to convince my wife to execute the test, and I fear that about 3 minutes into my 18 minute instructional presentation on how to use the stereo she would likely murder me and then go for a cocktail. BUT I DIGRESS... It wasn't bad and I suspect that's down to the DAC in my amp being pretty decent.

Not surprisingly second best was the Spotify through the Node 3 which is coming down RCAs to the Arcam, just a bit more presence and a bit more dynamics. But very very close.


The winner again not surprisingly was the Tidal CD quality through the Node 3. Lots of little details were present that couldn't be heard in the Spotify versions, much fuller, more dynamic. Although Tidal is definitely doing something to their EQ, everything is much more bass heavy through Tidal. So much so that I went though and checked my settings and I actually had my sub down .5 DB on the Node3 input and it's still CLEARLY far more bass heavy than the Spotify. That could be down to the lower res stripping a lot of that out, but I don't think so because these are even really bassy compared to my same albums on vinyl. So I think there are some shenanigans going on with the Tidal streams. But it's not bad, just not wholly accurate.
Click to expand...

The Node3 has a PCM 5242 Burr Brown DAC that supports 32/384 compared with 24/192 of the 2. If I didnt have a Schiit on my Node2 I'm happy with I would look at Denafrips Ares II or Rega Rdac. The dac market right now is a bit up in the air with the chip factory fire and current chip shortages.
 
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kvetcha said:
Legitimately surprised you're not trying Apple Music since Lossless is at-no-cost and it also includes upload of your personal library to the cloud.
Click to expand...

Its pretty damn annoying to have to connect an iPad to a usb DAC using a lightening to USB connector to get it out though!

If Apple weren’t such pains and would upgrade Airplay to cope with 24/192 or even better come up with a “Connect” style on device protocol then it’d totally be more of an option.
 
Mather said:
Yeah I mean I just know what my ears tell me and a lot of the high res stuff is very clearly above cd quality. It's not my vinyl quality, but it's like... 75% of my vinyl quality. But missing the stage and imaging that comes off my TT. The CD stuff sounds good for sure, but it's not particularly close.

Like I said before, Dylan "Man In The Long Black Coat" Master quality. There is no way no how that's simply a up converted CD master, it's stunning. It's the best thing I've ever heard digitally come out of my system by an absolute landslide.
Click to expand...

Sony actually did a brilliant job with Dylan on digital. Around the early 00s they did DSD tape transfers to release all his biggest stuff on SACD as one of their headline acts to showcase their players. I have quite a few of those SACDs and they are brilliant, not my vinyl, but brilliant.

There is no way of knowing for sure but it wouldn’t surprise me if they were still using those transfers converted for their hi res files for the streaming services.
 
Joe Mac said:
I’m highly sceptical that professional studios were widespread recording in 16/44.1. Home or lo-fi recordings for sure but I’d be shocked if the majority of master recordings were recorded there rather than recorded higher and compressed.

That’s not to mention the scores of older stuff that would have originally been done to tape and transferred or the newer stuff where data storage isn’t so much a cost issue and even pro tools at home will let you do 24/96 recordings.
Click to expand...
I'm going off info provided from Darko, but it makes sense. The big name stuff obviously gets the works. But for every Dylan we have 1,000 other artists who don't get the same treatment.
My personal preference is recording over format. I'll take a very well recorded Spotify stream of an MQA of a crap recording. If digital was my primary format, I might chase file types a little more. But in my experience so far the juice isn't worth the squeeze for most things I'm pulling up.
 
Joe Mac said:
Its pretty damn annoying to have to connect an iPad to a usb DAC using a lightening to USB connector to get it out though!

If Apple weren’t such pains and would upgrade Airplay to cope with 24/192 or even better come up with a “Connect” style on device protocol then it’d totally be more of an option.
Click to expand...
His AppleTV 4K, while being slightly annoying to use headless, would push 24/192.
 
Mather said:
Ya the problem is I don't use an iPhone so I can't control the apple tv so it's a moot point. I can't really go Apple Music for that reason alone.
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If you had to, you could pick up a used Ipod Touch off craigslist and use the apple remote app exclusively. There are also cross platform screen sharing apps that "might" work on your Android device to control Apple devices per se. Again, just spitballing and if you "have to"
www.lifewire.com

Here's How to Control Apple TV With Your Android

Looking to control your Apple TV with an Android? The Google Play Store has several apps that let you use your Android as a remote for the Apple TV.
www.lifewire.com www.lifewire.com
 
FWIW Apple Music does support Android and there are solutions to AirPlay from Android, so it might be worth a free trial to futz around with it.
 
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