The Technics Turntable Fan Club - Questions, Advice, Discussion

HiFi Guy said:
No problem. Here are some tips-

1. Get some blue or yellow painters tape. Tape the platter down so it doesn’t move. I used two pieces-one on the front, one on the left side.

2. Place the protractor on the platter. Move it around until the stylus is exactly on the arc. Tape the protractor to the mat.

3. Follow the included instructions.

4. When everything is right, you won’t be perfectly on the arc as you get very close to the spindle. That’s ok. The label is there on the record anyway. You’ll be perfect everywhere else.

5. As I’ve said, it’s fiddly. You’ll find you have things perfect on one part of the arc or maybe one crosshatch pattern but not on other parts of the arc, or maybe the other crosshatch. You’d think if you have both crosshatch patterns good, that you are automatically good everywhere else. Not so. I found that it you get the stylus exactly on the arc first at every point , you’ll be good on the crosshatch patterns too.

6. Don’t get frustrated. It can be done. Take a break or 2 if you need to. You’ll get it.
Click to expand...
I cheated and skipped the tape but kept the beer near.
I wasn't too far off to begin with, very minor adjustment. Camera phone is better than my eyes. Also the black protractor is really difficult with light to set the stylus. Black light flashlight was really handy for this chore.

Before20230316_155736.jpg20230316_160210.jpg

After
20230316_160946.jpg20230316_160839.jpg
 
I have 3 more carts to check.
Doubt I am this good on all three... but will save the rest of the fun for later.

Shibata is ear candy. Maybe some subtle difference by nothing really noticable except a piece of mind after the small adjustment.
 
Jbraswell said:
I cheated and skipped the tape but kept the beer near.
I wasn't too far off to begin with, very minor adjustment. Camera phone is better than my eyes. Also the black protractor is really difficult with light to set the stylus. Black light flashlight was really handy for this chore.

BeforeView attachment 169649View attachment 169650

After
View attachment 169651View attachment 169652
Click to expand...
Looks good.

I figured out something in the past week. I’d aligned both my Grado and my SAE with the new arc protractor. The SAE came out great, but my custom Grado didn’t. Some albums have sibilance- just the way it is- for example my MoFi Moody Blues “Days of Future Passed”. Some vocals have sibilance with both cartridges. The SAE is slight, but there. The Grado will rip your head clean off. Something wasn’t right- a cartridge with a boron cantilever and MicroRidge stylus shouldn’t do that.

I got to thinking about it- what would happen if I aligned the Grado with my MoFi Geodisc? It wouldn’t hurt to try and all of the math says Baerwald (the Geodisc alignment) has the lowest distortion. So I gave it a shot. It’s a night and day difference! The sibilance is pretty much equal to the SAE- as it should be. Surface noise is non existent. The Grado has never sounded better and now I easily prefer it to the SAE. It’s got tons of resolution without being analytical- and that Grado bass is to die for. Dynamics are huge.

How @AnthonyI and I landed on the factory alignment was that it sounded best when we had GRs. I’m not sure why the G would be different, but it appears to be- at least with the Grado.

Would the SAE outperform the Grado if aligned with the Geodisc? Possibly, but I’m enjoying the Grado too much to care.

So, I’m learning there are no absolutes when it comes to turntable setup. What may work on one turntable or cartridge may not work on another, even when it should.

I’m actually starting to wonder what a Grado towards the top of the Timbre series might be like. This modded Gold3 kicks ass.

I’m curious to see what happens when the Grado is measured/adjusted with the Fozgometer that @OMC loaned me. It arrives tomorrow but I may not get a chance to check it out until Tuesday.
 
HiFi Guy said:
Looks good.

I figured out something in the past week. I’d aligned both my Grado and my SAE with the new arc protractor. The SAE came out great, but my custom Grado didn’t. Some albums have sibilance- just the way it is- for example my MoFi Moody Blues “Days of Future Passed”. Some vocals have sibilance with both cartridges. The SAE is slight, but there. The Grado will rip your head clean off. Something wasn’t right- a cartridge with a boron cantilever and MicroRidge stylus shouldn’t do that.

I got to thinking about it- what would happen if I aligned the Grado with my MoFi Geodisc? It wouldn’t hurt to try and all of the math says Baerwald (the Geodisc alignment) has the lowest distortion. So I gave it a shot. It’s a night and day difference! The sibilance is pretty much equal to the SAE- as it should be. Surface noise is non existent. The Grado has never sounded better and now I easily prefer it to the SAE. It’s got tons of resolution without being analytical- and that Grado bass is to die for. Dynamics are huge.

How @AnthonyI and I landed on the factory alignment was that it sounded best when we had GRs. I’m not sure why the G would be different, but it appears to be- at least with the Grado.

Would the SAE outperform the Grado if aligned with the Geodisc? Possibly, but I’m enjoying the Grado too much to care.

So, I’m learning there are no absolutes when it comes to turntable setup. What may work on one turntable or cartridge may not work on another, even when it should.

I’m actually starting to wonder what a Grado towards the top of the Timbre series might be like. This modded Gold3 kicks ass.

I’m curious to see what happens when the Grado is measured/adjusted with the Fozgometer that @OMC loaned me. It arrives tomorrow but I may not get a chance to check it out until Tuesday.
Click to expand...
Yeah keep experimenting and let us know. So many variables with carts and headshells.
I have a really warm, detailed, full sound while running no EQ/tone adjustment.
Sounds like a sweet spot here.

I think overhang is most critical, after headshell azimuth and I was good for the most part.
The jig is 90%. The protractor is the final 10%.
 
HiFi Guy said:
Looks good.

I figured out something in the past week. I’d aligned both my Grado and my SAE with the new arc protractor. The SAE came out great, but my custom Grado didn’t. Some albums have sibilance- just the way it is- for example my MoFi Moody Blues “Days of Future Passed”. Some vocals have sibilance with both cartridges. The SAE is slight, but there. The Grado will rip your head clean off. Something wasn’t right- a cartridge with a boron cantilever and MicroRidge stylus shouldn’t do that.

I got to thinking about it- what would happen if I aligned the Grado with my MoFi Geodisc? It wouldn’t hurt to try and all of the math says Baerwald (the Geodisc alignment) has the lowest distortion. So I gave it a shot. It’s a night and day difference! The sibilance is pretty much equal to the SAE- as it should be. Surface noise is non existent. The Grado has never sounded better and now I easily prefer it to the SAE. It’s got tons of resolution without being analytical- and that Grado bass is to die for. Dynamics are huge.

How @AnthonyI and I landed on the factory alignment was that it sounded best when we had GRs. I’m not sure why the G would be different, but it appears to be- at least with the Grado.

Would the SAE outperform the Grado if aligned with the Geodisc? Possibly, but I’m enjoying the Grado too much to care.

So, I’m learning there are no absolutes when it comes to turntable setup. What may work on one turntable or cartridge may not work on another, even when it should.

I’m actually starting to wonder what a Grado towards the top of the Timbre series might be like. This modded Gold3 kicks ass.

I’m curious to see what happens when the Grado is measured/adjusted with the Fozgometer that @OMC loaned me. It arrives tomorrow but I may not get a chance to check it out until Tuesday.
Click to expand...
I have always aligned my Grados with the Geodisc and found that as long as I’m lining up the actual cantilever and paying no mind to how the cartridge body is influencing adjustment, they track best.

Everything with turntables are a tradeoff, right? You’re spot on that the low end on a Grado is just something else. Intoxicating. But the flipside to that coin is they can be most susceptible to sibilance, at least in my experience. But if you nail that setup! 🙌

Still absolutely love my Opus3.
 
HayesWeighsIn said:
I have always aligned my Grados with the Geodisc and found that as long as I’m lining up the actual cantilever and paying no mind to how the cartridge body is influencing adjustment, they track best.

Everything with turntables are a tradeoff, right? You’re spot on that the low end on a Grado is just something else. Intoxicating. But the flipside to that coin is they can be most susceptible to sibilance, at least in my experience. But if you nail that setup! 🙌

Still absolutely love my Opus3.
Click to expand...
Regardless of any documentation, vendor instructions, there are no absolutes when it comes to carts and alignments in my experience. Most of all, and I think this is what gets us all in those rabbit holes, trust your ears ;)
 
Well, I received the Fozgometer today from @OMC.

I had the house to myself tonight so I figured “what the hell.” I wish I had taken pictures but I didn’t.

So it turns out the bubble level gets you very close on azimuth, just as the factory jig gets you close on alignment. And just as the arc protractor gets you the rest of the way (assuming you want the factory alignment) the Fozgometer gets you the rest of the way on the azimuth adjustment.

I checked when I started. The goal is to have the channel balance perfect while playing a mono signal. This passed the test. You also want left and right channels to have equal output when playing stereo discs. This was a fail. The test record (sold separately- I already had it) has a 1kHz tone in the left channel on one track, and the same tone in the right channel in the next track.

Track 1 checks channel balance, meter needs to read 0. Get that, check both stereo channels and rotate the headshell left or right. Check all 3 again. If the mono track for channel balance is off of 0, the headshell has been moved too much. Do this repeatedly until all tracks are a pass- 0 on channel balance and the exact same meter reading from the left and right stereo tracks.

It takes teeny tiny movements to get it right. It took a hour and I’d bet I was 1-2 degrees off when I started. But the Fozgometer is cool. Why? It’s measuring azimuth in the groove in real time. There’s no way to get things this perfect with a mirror or a level. If my level showed perfect before, now it shows “not level” by 1/32”.

The cartridge body being “off” by 1/32” in this case is ok-the Fozgometer now has the stylus perfectly straight vertically in the record groove- where it counts. The Fozgometer allows one to get everything perfect even if there are slight variations in manufacturing.

Is it audible? Yes. but I was so close it’s the cherry on top. I have noticed that soundstage depth is better. I’m playing the same album I played last night- Haydn symphonies. Still I think the more advanced the stylus profile is, the more audible it’s going to be, unless azimuth was grossly off to begin with. But I’d also think getting it perfect will give longer stylus life and reduce record wear.

I’ll try it with the SAE and report back - with pictures. I’m impressed.
 
HiFi Guy said:
Well, I received the Fozgometer today from @OMC.

I had the house to myself tonight so I figured “what the hell.” I wish I had taken pictures but I didn’t.

So it turns out the bubble level gets you very close on azimuth, just as the factory jig gets you close on alignment. And just as the arc protractor gets you the rest of the way (assuming you want the factory alignment) the Fozgometer gets you the rest of the way on the azimuth adjustment.

I checked when I started. The goal is to have the channel balance perfect while playing a mono signal. This passed the test. You also want left and right channels to have equal output when playing stereo discs. This was a fail. The test record (sold separately- I already had it) has a 1kHz tone in the left channel on one track, and the same tone in the right channel in the next track.

Track 1 checks channel balance, meter needs to read 0. Get that, check both stereo channels and rotate the headshell left or right. Check all 3 again. If the mono track for channel balance is off of 0, the headshell has been moved too much. Do this repeatedly until all tracks are a pass- 0 on channel balance and the exact same meter reading from the left and right stereo tracks.

It takes teeny tiny movements to get it right. It took a hour and I’d bet I was 1-2 degrees off when I started. But the Fozgometer is cool. Why? It’s measuring azimuth in the groove in real time. There’s no way to get things this perfect with a mirror or a level. If my level showed perfect before, now it shows “not level” by 1/32”.

The cartridge body being “off” by 1/32” in this case is ok-the Fozgometer now has the stylus perfectly straight vertically in the record groove- where it counts. The Fozgometer allows one to get everything perfect even if there are slight variations in manufacturing.

Is it audible? Yes. but I was so close it’s the cherry on top. I have noticed that soundstage depth is better. I’m playing the same album I played last night- Haydn symphonies. Still I think the more advanced the stylus profile is, the more audible it’s going to be, unless azimuth was grossly off to begin with. But I’d also think getting it perfect will give longer stylus life and reduce record wear.

I’ll try it with the SAE and report back.- with pictures. I’m impressed.
Click to expand...
Glad that so far, so good. I think you would find the WalleyTractor alignment tool to give similar tighter specs.
 
OMC said:
Spend $400? 😁
Click to expand...
No actually a bit more.

I stumbled across a deal on a lightly used Grado Reference3 low output cartridge. They sell for $1500. I bought this one with 250 hours, all original documentation, hardware, wooden box and bill of sale- purchased straight from Grado. I paid $525 delivered.

Here’s my logic-when this one is worn, I can get another new one from Grado for $1k, so essentially 2 cartridges for $1525. Or I can send it to Groove Tickler/Joseph Long for a rebuild. The one I’m getting and two rebuilds would be $1475.

I could also use it as a trade in to trade up at Grado, but I really don’t see that happening.

Paying by PayPal I’m fully protected and the guy I bought it from has great feedback. He decided to upgrade to a Soundmith Paua- $4k. Those are waters I won’t be swimming in.
 
HiFi Guy said:
No actually a bit more.

I stumbled across a deal on a lightly used Grado Reference3 low output cartridge. They sell for $1500. I bought this one with 250 hours, all original documentation, hardware, wooden box and bill of sale- purchased straight from Grado. I paid $525 delivered.

Here’s my logic-when this one is worn, I can get another new one from Grado for $1k, so essentially 2 cartridges for $1525. Or I can send it to Groove Tickler/Joseph Long for a rebuild. The one I’m getting and two rebuilds would be $1475.

I could also use it as a trade in to trade up at Grado, but I really don’t see that happening.

Paying by PayPal I’m fully protected and the guy I bought it from has great feedback. He decided to upgrade to a Soundmith Paua- $4k. Those are waters I won’t be swimming in.
Click to expand...
Let us know! There's a gentleman in the VPI FB group who just put one on his Prime Scout and is absolutely floored by it.
 
Finally got around to upgrading my old Technics SLD2 with Nagaoka MP-110 to a 100c. Rest of my system is a Fosi X2 phono stage, NAD C316 BEE amp and Q Acoustics 3030i speakers.

Based on what I’d read online I didn’t bother with the installed stylus, did the upgrade to the ML.

Right off the bat the difference from my old turntable (which admittedly has been suffering speed stability issues) to the 100c was noticeable. I was expecting better separation, richer sound etc. What I wasn’t expecting though was how much less surface noise there was – the records just play much quieter. Really happy I made the leap.

Will look at Darlington Labs for a new phono stage next I think, but for now really happy with how it sounds!

technics.png
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top