Vinyl Me Please (store, exclusives, swaps, etc)

[Kyuuji]

Was curious so here’s a few others:

People have been busy. The National now down to 12

 

[Tys1]

Gonna pick on this for a second, not that you're the only one who says it. People give VMP a lot of flak about the FOMO stuff. Nearly everything they do gets chalked up to this strategy. Hype drop times in advance? FOMO. Drop things in the store unannounced? FOMO. List pressing sizes? FOMO. Keep pressing sizes quiet? FOMO. Tell people they expect something to go quickly? FOMO. Let people hype things amongst themselves without commenting? FOMO. Announce one month of AOTMs at a time? FOMO. Announce three months up front? FOMO. And so on.

VMP's job is to sell records, however they can. Records aren't -- in my opinion -- too sacred to be subject to the vagaries of online marketing schemes. It's frustrating when I want something and it's selling out because everyone wants it too. It's also frustrating when I convince myself that I want something and then later figure out that I just got suckered by the hype.

Why is VMP's brand of FOMO any different or worse than what we do to each other here in the forum all the time? Is it because we aren't getting paid for it?

I don't know. I obviously think there are many, many things to dislike about VMP that will keep me from being their customer again anytime soon (this When the Pawn price is just one egregious example). It just seems to me that the FOMO accusation gets applied to so much, so often, that it's sort of a watered-down, meaningless complaint. If curation is the art of identifying what belongs in a collection, and retail is about sustaining demand, then it seems like the implication that you might miss something great if you fail to act is built into the business model....somewhat artificially, I'll grant, because of the limited variant pressings and so on, but aside from the Fiona Apples and Nat Turner Rebellions, that's pretty much the only feature VMP has to differentiate their products from others' (or it was, until everyone else started to catch on that bright colors will draw the eye).

Anyway, not trying to poop on your thoughts personally @Teeeee , that's just been percolating in the back of my head for a while and I wanted to throw it out there. I know I cherry picked that one phrase out of a list of complaints and that you also have plenty of valid reasons not to want to support them, generally speaking.

Curious to hear others' thoughts about this too: what, specifically, does FOMO mean to you, and what would you want to see VMP do -- specifically -- to reduce it?

I use FOMO in a negative context with VMP because they’ve proven to use it themselves in various misleading ways... or straight out LYING to sell records. Examples...

1. Hype man tells people something is about to be out of stock or is selling well, and is left in store for several more months
2. Advertising leads people to believe something is member exclusive for a time period, gets opened to the public
3. Strategy of including “swap exclusives” to lure in new members is great in theory... except these exclusives are albums that others that got sent damaged albums were not able to get replacements for because they were “sold out”

There’s many others, but I just woke up and will leave it there.


FOMO in itself is a very natural business strategy. But lying and deception to your loyal customers is not.

 

[Tys1]

All valid complaints for sure, but only #1 seems to me to fit under the umbrella of creating a "fear of missing out" by telling people something is in shorter supply than it actually is to stoke demand. In fact, #2 and #3 seem like the opposite, a false reassurance that you WON'T miss out. See what I'm saying?

My brain works like this:
#2-
“Member exclusive? Available for a limited time? Dang! Better get on this quick or I’ll have to pay 5x the price on the secondary”

#3- “If I want insurance for albums that I may regret missing out on I better become a member”

 

[Tys1]

My brain works like this:
#2-
“Member exclusive? Available for a limited time? Dang! Better get on this quick or I’ll have to pay 5x the price on the secondary”

#3- “If I want insurance for albums that I may regret missing out on I better become a member”

I think the difference here is that you’re interpreting FOMO being for albums, and I’m encompassing it as a whole business approach. They make much more money from memberships, examples 2 and 3 are examples of FOMO for memberships, not individual albums.

 

[Memo]

There is FOMO in everything. And it's more a social issue than a VMP one.
Social anxiety and fear of regret are the biggest things that lead to buying items, and marketing teams know this.
If it's in clothing, books, tv shows, etc. you can bet it's in music.
Festivals do this all the time as well, sell tickets even before the lineup is shown.
FOMO can only affect you as much as you let it. Just get the stuff you want, don't have a preconceived notion that just because it's limited you HAVE to have it. That's an easy way to get burnt out of a hobby. Just get the variant you like whether it be VMP or not and be happy.

Ultimately, Vinyl Me, Please is a company. Their priority, make profit and as much of it as possible.
Have they lied before? Yes
Have they treated their customers like shit? Yes
Have they had some QC issues? Yes, no company is perfect.

On the other hand...
Have they expanded your knowledge of vinyl or collecting? To me, yes.
Have they repressed out of print vinyl that was practically unattainable before? Yes.
Have they introduced you to new music you otherwise wouldn't know about? To me, Yes.

I bet majority of their customers don't even know they sell exclusives or even that they can choose a track or swap.

I've been a VMP Customer since 2015. I think i've had some sort of delivery every month from them since beginning.
They have pushed fomo then, and they're still doing it now. I can't tell you how many albums i got just because it was limited and ended up straight selling them because I didn't even enjoy it. Now, I only get what I like, curate my own stuff.
I still buy VMP because despite the issues, I can still go to their CS team and deal with them. Can't tell you how many Cancel Order i've sent them over the years.
I was upset about Fetch The Bolt Cutters, because I signed up and all the swap mess happened, and membership wasn't necessary. talked to CS and they got me a refund.

 

[Tys1]

Isn't that any business' approach, to the point @Memo made above? If you don't buy the service, you don't get the service.

Not trying to be contrary, just want to tease this idea out a little more.

Yes it is. FOMO itself is fine, how you choose to institute it are very different and can easily cross a line between acceptable and shady. They choose to institute FOMO with lies and deception, that’s not cool. The sad thing is, they don’t need to utilize those geurilla tactics, the product will sell with honesty the same as without.

 

[mudketeer]

I can not love this enough. I am giving you a standing ovation in my living room (the dogs are confused).

I don't buy new anymore. I buy used. Why? VMP destroying the QC in the marketplace. VMP driving prices sky high. VMP's strategy of FOMO that has seeped into every other aspect of this hobby.

AND GET OFF MY LAWN!

Thank you Gap! Perfect.

For the most part, I look for used vinyl now too. Price and quality is one thing. The other is the environmental impact, the pellets used in pressing new vinyl have a really shitty impact on our environment. And most of the pellets used get created in countries where they don’t have checks and balances to ensure waste products (and pellets) don’t end up in the ocean and other waterways.

 

[Tys1]

Where #2 is concerned, I think I misunderstood what you were saying originally. I thought your complaint was advertising something as a member exclusive that turns out not to be one at all, but it seems like your comment is really more about transitioning things out of the exclusivity window to sales for the general public. I only see limited options here though: They could not keep products exclusive to members (i.e., make everything available to the public), but that seems like it would enhance FOMO and also devalue memberships. On the other hand, it'll take longer to move product if they never go public.

Are these things that VMP is doing to artificially create FOMO? Are they inherently underhanded or misleading? What would you propose to improve those elements of the business model?

I think you had #2 right the first time. Telling people that something is exclusive to members when in reality it’s not is creating membership FOMO. It’s a lie and makes their customers feel dirty and used.

Yes, they’re artificially creating FOMO. I think history has definitively proven this by now. One or two occasions and it’s no biggie but when it’s been happening every month for years then you kinda have to try harder to convince yourself that they’re justified than to accept the truth. Fool me once shame on me, fool me twice shame on me again.

 

[Rahawk2]

Ha you kids and your FOMO. I remember having to take a bus to the Tower records standing in a long ass line waiting for Midnight when they would sell their new releases. If you were lucky no one would cut in line and if you were really lucky the big kids wouldn’t steal your Starter Cap and pagers. .We had fear of getting jacked in line and we liked it dammit.

 

[Tys1]

What would you propose to improve those elements of the business model?

I don’t get paid enough to address their business model but I can give an example of a company that uses FOMO tactfully. My other hobby, sports cards, has a company called Panini. They release products to the general public via multiple channels but if you pre-order directly from them then you can be part of their “first off the line” promo where you’ll receive some sort of exclusive bonus. These bonus things sell out very quickly and fetch a penny on the secondary, but the compay never tries to push that on you or market it in deceptive or outright lying ways. Just a simple announcement, “hey, this is going on sale at this date and at this time”.... that’s all VMP needs to do. The fomo is built into the product, you don’t have to be a used car salesman. Early Tesla is another example, the fomo was built into the product supply and availability not some cheeseball sales tactics.

 

[Memo]

I think you had #2 right the first time. Telling people that something is exclusive to members when in reality it’s not is creating membership FOMO. It’s a lie and makes their customers feel dirty and used.

Yes, they’re artificially creating FOMO. I think history has definitively proven this by now. One or two occasions and it’s no biggie but when it’s been happening every month for years then you kinda have to try harder to convince yourself that they’re justified than to accept the truth. Fool me once shame on me, fool me twice shame on me again.

At this point, It can either be:
A) They know that the magazine link provides a loophole for non-members. Which makes them liars.
B) They don't know you can by pass membership through magazine link. Which makes them oblivious.
or
C) They do know the magazine link provides the loophole and are having a hard time fixing it. Which makes them incompetent.

We can all agree that VMP technical team has a hard time doing anything. That just stems from hiring cheap labor, to increase profits, instead of hiring a legitimate person to run this. That specifically causes the problem of the memberships, and as more and more of their client base starts to realize that there are exclusives, the more the benefit of a membership will be there. I think a two day window is small tho, should be at least a week to two weeks, heck one can even make the argument of membership only until ship date.

 

[Memo]

I don’t get paid enough to address their business model but I can give an example of a company that uses FOMO tactfully. My other hobby, sports cards, has a company called Panini. They release products to the general public via multiple channels but if you pre-order directly from them then you can be part of their “first off the line” promo where you’ll receive some sort of exclusive bonus. These bonus things sell out very quickly and fetch a penny on the secondary, but the compay never tries to push that on you or market it in deceptive or outright lying ways. Just a simple announcement, “hey, this is going on sale at this date and at this time”.... that’s all VMP needs to do. The fomo is built into the product, you don’t have to be a used car salesman. Early Tesla is another example, the fomo was built into the product supply and availability not some cheeseball sales tactics.

But how long has Panini been in business?
They don't need the FOMO marketing because they already have that client base. VMP is less than a decade old so these marketing schemes of FOMO are higher. Just with any new company.

 

[Tys1]

The running theme here definitely seems to be more about deceit than just FOMO in general. Lying in order to create the fear that you'll miss something instead of just allowing the popularity of the product to do that work for you. In that sense, FOMO isn't the issue, honesty is. Do you think that's fair to say?

I would agree with you there. Nothing wrong with FOMO at all, I think most people use it in a negative context based on the conditionality of it.

 

[MikeH]

Where #2 is concerned, I think I misunderstood what you were saying originally. I thought your complaint was advertising something as a member exclusive that turns out not to be one at all, but it seems like your comment is really more about transitioning things out of the exclusivity window to sales for the general public. I only see limited options here though: They could not keep products exclusive to members (i.e., make everything available to the public), but that seems like it would enhance FOMO and also devalue memberships. On the other hand, it'll take longer to move product if they never go public.

Are these things that VMP is doing to artificially create FOMO? Are they inherently underhanded or misleading? What would you propose to improve those elements of the business model?

I think the member pricing, which they have done for a few items, kind of hits the sweet spot in terms of adding a benefit for being a member (free shipping + discounted member price) while also letting the general public purchase an album if they really want it. I also think that for the limited store exclusives like Rising or color variants, there should always be a window of it only being available to members first then open to public if it doesn't sell out. No limited store exclusives should be open to the public ever at launch IMO. They too often tow the line of trying to push member perks but then also selling to non-members, and it really rubs members the wrong way. VMP seems to have become a company more concerned with moving product instead of making their membership feel worth it.

There will always be FOMO in record purchasing now with all the limited color variants and resale market being pretty good. VMP is not alone in doing this, nor did they start it. They have quite a lot of sketchy business practices now though, and whether that is due to incompetence or willful ignorance, we may never know. Neither of those two is promising for a company though....The sketchy business practices have made me wary of VMP as of late but ultimately, as a former long-time VMP subscriber, they stopped making being a member worth it to me. There hasn't been much as of late to justify being a member, especially when swaps didn't work. My swaps got oversold, or I couldn't access them last month. I can get most of the ROTM albums on the resale market or find OG pressings for cheaper. Member "exclusives" are available to non-members sometimes even with free shipping.

You have some very specific events like VMP sending out a newsblast getting people to sign up for 3 months by saying QOTSA would only be available to VMP customers, then it gets a much wider release a few days after. They keep hinting that maybe they will press Channel Orange. They say things are limited, or that they won't do repressings and then they repress. They are inconsistent in being up front about what album sources are, how many are being pressed, etc. I do agree with you though that the FOMO tag is being thrown around a lot with VMP and it doesn't apply to everything. Deceitfulness is a bit more of an appropriate word.

 

[Tys1]

But how long has Panini been in business?
They don't need the FOMO marketing because they already have that client base. VMP is less than a decade old so these marketing schemes of FOMO are higher. Just with any new company.

Panini in a real sense? Not just an Italian sticker company sense? Since 2009, so still pretty new in that sense. They’ve also only Ben doing first off the line for a couple years now.

 

[Dead C]

I agree with your sentiment, and also feel that VMP is run by a bunch of tits

But i have to disagree on the idea that they are destroying QC in the marketplace. The first ones to do it in the Vinyl resurgence was Plain and 4 Men With Beards, who just pumped trash into the market. These were dark times. Then labels got wise and acquired lots of these back but pressed them at Rainbo and United en masse. Then Newbury just started paying an exclusive fee to produce these in print masters on various colors at a markup for collect-ability.

THESE things destroyed QC in the market. Eventually enough collectors proved that they would pay a premium for well mastered, well packaged content and VMP has legit made a name for themselves with quality. When they get it right they get it very, very right. So we are really just seeing the natural pendulum swing of the market- ok, we have proven we will pay more for quality so how MUCH more will we pay? The market is testing that now.

It should also be noted that Plain and 4 Men With Beards are both labels under Runt distribution, along with DBK and Water Records. I guess that, since 2007, Runt has been part of City Hall records. I believe that they.used to only list those 4 sub labels, but Runt has since teamed with Fire Records to distribute titles in the US. It looks like, somewhere along the line, Runt also acquired Smithsonian Folkways (?). They have them listed under their labels and I found where someone on the Steve Hoffman forum expressed hesitation about a Folkways release, because it was produced by Runt.

I was hoping they would get smaller and evaporative. Doesn't appear so.

 

[MikeH]

It should also be noted that Plain and 4 Men With Beards are both labels under Runt distribution, along with DBK and Water Records. I guess that, since 2007, Runt has been part of City Hall records. I believe that they.used to only list those 4 sub labels, but Runt has since teamed with Fire Records to distribute titles in the US. It looks like, somewhere along the line, Runt also acquired Smithsonian Folkways (?). They have them listed under their labels and I found where someone on the Steve Hoffman forum expressed hesitation about a Folkways release, because it was produced by Runt.

I was hoping they would get smaller and evaporative. Doesn't appear so.

I'm not surprised at all that they have grown. I see their albums EVERYWHERE. My local record store, Academy Records, which is a pretty reputable store, has tons of 4MWB releases in their new release section. The thing is they press some good titles and sell them for cheap prices and most people don't know any better. They hit the demo of people starting out with vinyl who aren't dropping $2k+ on a setup. I bought a few 4MWB pressings early on since I didn't know any better.

 

[blenoxsmith]

Here's an interesting situation - this happen to anyone else?

On release day I was able to swap for Ray Charles. A few days later, after being alerted to swaps being cancelled in this thread, I checked my account and my Swap to Ray was no longer in place, so I swapped for The Stooges. Today, I get an email that may package is out for delivery - and it's Ray Charles.

At the moment, if I click on My Account, The Stooges is listed as the record I swapped for, but if I then click on Orders, Ray Charles is listed in my orders.

What will I get??? Hopefully 25 of something.

People who swapped may want to see if what's on your member page vs your order listings is the same.

 

[Dead C]

I think the member pricing, which they have done for a few items, kind of hits the sweet spot in terms of adding a benefit for being a member (free shipping + discounted member price) while also letting the general public purchase an album if they really want it. I also think that for the limited store exclusives like Rising or color variants, there should always be a window of it only being available to members first then open to public if it doesn't sell out. No limited store exclusives should be open to the public ever at launch IMO. They too often tow the line of trying to push member perks but then also selling to non-members, and it really rubs members the wrong way. VMP seems to have become a company more concerned with moving product instead of making their membership feel worth it.

There will always be FOMO in record purchasing now with all the limited color variants and resale market being pretty good. VMP is not alone in doing this, nor did they start it. They have quite a lot of sketchy business practices now though, and whether that is due to incompetence or willful ignorance, we may never know. Neither of those two is promising for a company though....The sketchy business practices have made me wary of VMP as of late but ultimately, as a former long-time VMP subscriber, they stopped making being a member worth it to me. There hasn't been much as of late to justify being a member, especially when swaps didn't work. My swaps got oversold, or I couldn't access them last month. I can get most of the ROTM albums on the resale market or find OG pressings for cheaper. Member "exclusives" are available to non-members sometimes even with free shipping.

You have some very specific events like VMP sending out a newsblast getting people to sign up for 3 months by saying QOTSA would only be available to VMP customers, then it gets a much wider release a few days after. They keep hinting that maybe they will press Channel Orange. They say things are limited, or that they won't do repressings and then they repress. They are inconsistent in being up front about what album sources are, how many are being pressed, etc. I do agree with you though that the FOMO tag is being thrown around a lot with VMP and it doesn't apply to everything. Deceitfulness is a bit more of an appropriate word.

Pretty much agree with all of this.

That was part of my point with Fetch The Bolt Cutters. Why was there no member pricing, when they did that for Idler Wheel and When The Pawn? Instead, they tried to push the limted initial pressing angle with a 48hr member purchase window to support the idea that it could sell out, if yiu aren't subscribed, but just went ahead and doubled the pressing to 8k anyway. By doing that, it completely eliminates any actual member benefit and, once you recognize that, feels like way more of a deceitful dupe than just releasing it as an open pressing to everyone from the beginning.

 

[Rahawk2]

Ugh, I don't like spending this much time on a company that treats its customers like absolute shit and yet the customers are still die-hards.

My post could have gone on and on and on about the things VMP does that makes this hobby not fun for me anymore. But I decided to highlight the ones that were relevant to the sitch. And I didn't want to write an essay, so I stuck to a few and very general thoughts. I had more thoughts but they fall on deaf ears.

Not for you Indy: And for the record, I was NEVER a person that wanted VMP to press this, so please do not accuse me of being one of the "we've been begging them to do this for years and now that they do it we still complain" people. I think it is absolutely valid to wonder why something that took 3 years of teasing is so half-assed and overpriced.

I’m guessing because most members don’t really believe that they’re being treated like shit.
I really enjoy most of the classic, many of the RHH, and a lot of the Essentials. I buy the records I like and they mail them to my house. Sometimes they’re late. I survive. Sometimes they oversell a swap I get something else. Sometimes they even add a credit.Sometimes they get damaged or lost they replace or refund. I buy what I like and ignore what I don’t . I enjoy getting a package in the mail each month. It’s fun to guess what the next records might be, speculating the next record gets me discovering some new music I may may not know or revisit some albums I forgot about. Bonus I met some cool people on here that like the service too.