Hip Hop

This new song of his is atrocious, man. Noname is literally running a book club and constantly sharing resources to learn about political/social causes, places to donate to, etc. and J Cole's response was essentially "why aren't you spoonfeeding this info to me? I don't like your tone". His dismissive and holier-than-thou approach throughout the entire song reeked of sexism and ignorance. Those little lines at the beginning about "people think I'm smart, you're probably smarter than me, BUT..." really don't do anything to offset the rest of what he says

EDIT: I could go on and on about this song so I'm gonna have to stop myself after this lol. But the "she's somebody blessed enough to grow up with conscious family who educated her from a young age" line is really ironic. Noname was posting a lot of pro-capitalist stuff just a couple years ago and got a lot of critique on twitter about it. She didn't call anyone "haters" or dismiss them; she educated herself, changed her opinion, and is now helping to educate others. J Cole should take a page out of her book
I'm not on the same page with politics as Noname but it just seems so shitty. She's really passionately trying to help and educate others who are interested. He just comes in and mansplains "you're doing it wrong, do it like this." He could have written a song criticizing people who's hearts aren't in the right place, who aren't trying to help, and he did this.
 
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C'mon, man, what?

I just listened to it and I don't agree with you or @chrb98. This has nothing to do with feminism. You can't play both sides on everything. On one hand you are powerful, but if anyone critiques you then it's unfair and a cheap shot? That's bullshit. If she responds back now with a verse claiming that he's misogynistic and condescending, do we all clap for women empowerment?

This song isn't about tone policing her, either; it's literally a response to her being condescending toward him. He's saying that he doesn't appreciate how she's being classist toward him. He makes it perfectly clear in the song that he's responding to comments she's made that seem to be about him and at least one other person that he knows, specifically. So, he's telling her that he thinks it's pretty condescending to speak down to people and be so judgmental when they are living in and dealing with certain circumstances that she may not be. And he suggests that, if she's genuine about her intentions and thinks he and others are so ignorant, then she could actually say that in a more constructive way, otherwise she's just being classist and insulting. He's calling her out for telling him that he's not doing things right, not the other way around.

When I met Noname, she was incredibly fucking pretentious and rude. Meanwhile, she was wearing a Menace II Society shirt. Just because you're black, doesn't mean you can't exploit a culture -- it just makes it easier. I haven't read the tweets he's referring to, but I'm taking it like, in his opinion, she's trashing a culture she eats off, becase SHE believes she knows the proper way to do things and that SHE has been trashing people she views as deviant, ignorant, and/or below her. I'm literally going by Cole's lyrics. This song is a response, not an attack.

Noname definitely acted as if she was too good to address me, when I met her, and it exposed a lot about her persona to me really quickly. Basically, that it's bogus. She seemed like a pretentious art student. Just because you listen to someone's music and they project something doesn't mean it's real. In this case, I have zero doubt that it's 100% the opposite. And we aren't dealing with subjective shit here, we're dealing with racial and class issues. Cole isn't critiquing how she chooses to be an activist, he's telling her not to judge how he chooses to live. Somehow you both automatically flipped that one and viewed her as the victim, while I viewed your comments as blaming the victim for speaking up.

To me it feels like you view her a certain way and him a certain way. I wonder why that is. Honestly. Because this doesn't seem based on the content of the song, but as if he's a certain type of person attacking a different type if person. On lyrics alone... he's asking her not to be shitty to him and you're both so appalled that he had the audacity to come at her like that.

This reminds me of why I've hated Bill Cosby for so long -- it seemed that I was earlier than most on that one. Cosby once addressed a crowd -- I believe it was an NAACP event -- and chastised inner city youth and the younger generation, in general, by telling these kids they need to use proper English and pull their pants up, etc. A lot of white America thought that was great. I just thought he was a rich asshole. He gets to judge people living in a different environment, because he honestly believes he's above them? Yeah, he's black, but he'd been rich and famous for decades by that point. Not to mention, he was literally getting away with rape. But he looked like the good guy. Dr Huxtable. He was condescending as fuck to Richard Pryor and Eddie Murphy even did a whole bit about how he treated him a similar way. And like with Noname, plenty of people would easily take Cosby's side. The Cos showed suburban America a new image of successful black elegance. He gave them images of people that were like them. The negative byproduct was that it also presented the idea that to be respected, they needed to assimilate to them. That's why A Different World was a more important show, but also so much less soluble for mainstream America. It was "too black."

I'm not surprised that people will view the educated conscious spoken word poet woman as being attacked by some uncivilized rapper, but I don't see that in his lyrics at all. I see the opposite. This is more layered to me in some ways, but also pretty simple to me, if you actually listen to the lyrics.

So... I can't really accept the "c'mon man" on this one. I understand if that's a response to me assuming he's right, without context, but let's be real about how many will assume he's wrong by your post. I'm someone that already sees her as incredibly disingenuous. And yeah, when I met her, she was terrible. I simply reached out to shake her hand and introduced myself. She left my hand hanging and eye rolled me. I had a press pass and was covering the event. I've met folks from Killer Mike and Scarface to KRS-One. All pretty solid, because they had no ego and nothing to prove. I already know she thinks she's above certain people, but she's not above wearing them on her T-shirts for clout.

You might disagree with my take, but I genuinely do not believe this situation is as cut and dry as some of you might see it.
 
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Yall seem to be on the opposite side of the fence here.

But I think noname is a great artist but she is cracked.
She is the most hateful racist I have made the effort to follow.
Maybe she has some mental condition or something that makes her this way who knows.

Every time I look at my NoName VMP release I think why do you have to be so crazy.
 
I just listened to it and I don't agree with you or @chrb98. This has nothing to do with feminism. You can't play both sides on everything. On one hand you are powerful, but if anyone critiques you then it's unfair and a cheap shot? That's bullshit. If she responds back now with a verse claiming that he's misogynistic and condescending, do we all clap for women empowerment?

This song isn't about tone policing her, either; it's literally a response to her being condescending toward him. He's saying that he doesn't appreciate how she's being classist toward him. He makes it perfectly clear in the song that he's responding to comments she's made that seem to be about him and at least one other person that he knows, specifically. So, he's telling her that he thinks it's pretty condescending to speak down to people and be so judgmental when they are living in and dealing with certain circumstances that she may not be. And he suggests that, if she's genuine about her intentions and thinks he and others are so ignorant, then she could actually say that in a more constructive way, otherwise she's just being classist and insulting. He's calling her out for telling him that he's not doing things right, not the other way around.

When I met Noname, she was incredibly fucking pretentious and rude. Meanwhile, she was wearing a Menace II Society shirt. Just because you're black, doesn't mean you can't exploit a culture -- it just makes it easier. I haven't read the tweets he's referring to, but I'm taking it like, in his opinion, she's trashing a culture she eats off, becase SHE believes she knows the proper way to do things and that SHE has been trashing people she views as deviant, ignorant, and/or below her. I'm literally going by Cole's lyrics. This song is a response, not an attack.

Noname definitely acted as if she was too good to address me, when I met her, and it exposed a lot about her persona to me really quickly. Basically, that it's bogus. She seemed like a pretentious art student. Just because you listen to someone's music and they project something doesn't mean it's real. In this case, I have zero doubt that it's 100% the opposite. And we aren't dealing with subjective shit here, we're dealing with racial and class issues. Cole isn't critiquing how she chooses to be an activist, he's telling her not to judge how he chooses to live. Somehow you both automatically flipped that one and viewed her as the victim, while I viewed your comments as blaming the victim for speaking up.

To me it feels like you view her a certain way and him a certain way. I wonder why that is. Honestly. Because this doesn't seem based on the content of the song, but as if he's a certain type of person attacking a different type if person. On lyrics alone... he's asking her not to be shitty to him and you're both so appalled that he had the audacity to come at her like that.

This reminds me of why I've hated Bill Cosby for so long -- it seemed that I was earlier than most on that one. Cosby once addressed a crowd -- I believe it was an NAACP event -- and chastised inner city youth and the younger generation, in general, by telling these kids they need to use proper English and pull their pants up, etc. A lot of white America thought that was great. I just thought he was a rich asshole. He gets to judge people living in a different environment, because he honestly believes he's above them? Yeah, he's black, but he'd been rich and famous for decades by that point. Not to mention, he was literally getting away with rape. But he looked like the good guy. Dr Huxtable. He was condescending as fuck to Richard Pryor and Eddie Murphy even did a whole bit about how he treated him a similar way. And like with Noname, plenty of people would easily take Cosby's side. The Cos showed suburban America a new image of successful black elegance. He gave them images of people that were like them. The negative byproduct was that it also presented the idea that to be respected, they needed to assimilate to them. That's why A Different World was a more important show, but also so much less soluble for mainstream America. It was "too black."

I'm not surprised that people will view the educated conscious spoken word poet woman as being attacked by some uncivilized rapper, but I don't see that in his lyrics at all. I see the opposite. This is more layered to me in some ways, but also pretty simple to me, if you actually listen to the lyrics.

So... I can't really accept the "c'mon man" on this one. I understand if that's a response to me assuming he's right, without context, but let's be real about how many will assume he's wrong by your post. I'm someone that already sees her as incredibly disingenuous. And yeah, when I met her, she was terrible. I simply reached out to shake her hand and introduced myself. She left my hand hanging and eye rolled me. I had a press pass and was covering the event. I've met folks from Killer Mike and Scarface to KRS-One. All pretty solid, because they had no ego and nothing to prove. I alread know she thinks she's above certain people, but she's not above wearing them on her T-shirts for clout.

You might disagree with my take, but I genuinely do not bekieve this situation is as cut and dry as some of you might see it.

I def. seen it much more your way as well after hearing his track.

Not surprised in the slightest about your story though. A friend told me about a time she met her with her step sister. Her step sister was like 6-7 I believe and white, she had kind of a corn row hair style that day and got all excited when she recognized noname and I guess noname started laughing and told her she wouldn't sign anything until she got rid of the corn rows lol.. My friend who was her sister was black and saw the whole thing happen and got super heated at noname and ended up getting removed from the area. I've heard several other stories of people I didn't know saying she treats a lot of white people like complete shit as well. I can't vouch for any of those other stories but it's a bad look regardless.

I haven't touched her album in a long time, I honestly have no desire to hear her anymore which is a shame because she has a ton of talent but it's completely tainted to my ears now.
 
Siccness just posted he dropping X raided - psycho active and Brotha Lynch Hung - Loaded!

Came here to post that, myself


I def. seen it much more your way as well after hearing his track.

Not surprised in the slightest about your story though. A friend told me about a time she met her with her step sister. Her step sister was like 6-7 I believe and white, she had kind of a corn row hair style that day and got all excited when she recognized noname and I guess noname started laughing and told her she wouldn't sign anything until she got rid of the corn rows lol.. My friend who was her sister was black and saw the whole thing happen and got super heated at noname and ended up getting removed from the area. I've heard several other stories of people I didn't know saying she treats a lot of white people like complete shit as well. I can't vouch for any of those other stories but it's a bad look regardless.

I haven't touched her album in a long time, I honestly have no desire to hear her anymore which is a shame because she has a ton of talent but it's completely tainted to my ears now.

That's fucked up. But yeah... I'm not white, and she didn't like me, either. I'm also not fancy or interested in groveling when I meet somebody, so that was probably an issue. She wasn't even a very big name on that bill.

I could say a lot more on this, but she's just really fucking wack to me and I think she has some identity issues to work out, although she probably won't see the need to, since a bunch of people will be eager to rush to her defense protect her from self reflection. She comes off like an elitist art student in my mind and, the fact remains that hip hop was born in the burning Bronx of the 1970s and not the suburbs of the new millennium. Respect the culture that feeds you.
 
I just listened to it and I don't agree with you or @chrb98. This has nothing to do with feminism. You can't play both sides on everything. On one hand you are powerful, but if anyone critiques you then it's unfair and a cheap shot? That's bullshit. If she responds back now with a verse claiming that he's misogynistic and condescending, do we all clap for women empowerment?

This song isn't about tone policing her, either; it's literally a response to her being condescending toward him. He's saying that he doesn't appreciate how she's being classist toward him. He makes it perfectly clear in the song that he's responding to comments she's made that seem to be about him and at least one other person that he knows, specifically. So, he's telling her that he thinks it's pretty condescending to speak down to people and be so judgmental when they are living in and dealing with certain circumstances that she may not be. And he suggests that, if she's genuine about her intentions and thinks he and others are so ignorant, then she could actually say that in a more constructive way, otherwise she's just being classist and insulting. He's calling her out for telling him that he's not doing things right, not the other way around.

When I met Noname, she was incredibly fucking pretentious and rude. Meanwhile, she was wearing a Menace II Society shirt. Just because you're black, doesn't mean you can't exploit a culture -- it just makes it easier. I haven't read the tweets he's referring to, but I'm taking it like, in his opinion, she's trashing a culture she eats off, becase SHE believes she knows the proper way to do things and that SHE has been trashing people she views as deviant, ignorant, and/or below her. I'm literally going by Cole's lyrics. This song is a response, not an attack.

Noname definitely acted as if she was too good to address me, when I met her, and it exposed a lot about her persona to me really quickly. Basically, that it's bogus. She seemed like a pretentious art student. Just because you listen to someone's music and they project something doesn't mean it's real. In this case, I have zero doubt that it's 100% the opposite. And we aren't dealing with subjective shit here, we're dealing with racial and class issues. Cole isn't critiquing how she chooses to be an activist, he's telling her not to judge how he chooses to live. Somehow you both automatically flipped that one and viewed her as the victim, while I viewed your comments as blaming the victim for speaking up.

To me it feels like you view her a certain way and him a certain way. I wonder why that is. Honestly. Because this doesn't seem based on the content of the song, but as if he's a certain type of person attacking a different type if person. On lyrics alone... he's asking her not to be shitty to him and you're both so appalled that he had the audacity to come at her like that.

This reminds me of why I've hated Bill Cosby for so long -- it seemed that I was earlier than most on that one. Cosby once addressed a crowd -- I believe it was an NAACP event -- and chastised inner city youth and the younger generation, in general, by telling these kids they need to use proper English and pull their pants up, etc. A lot of white America thought that was great. I just thought he was a rich asshole. He gets to judge people living in a different environment, because he honestly believes he's above them? Yeah, he's black, but he'd been rich and famous for decades by that point. Not to mention, he was literally getting away with rape. But he looked like the good guy. Dr Huxtable. He was condescending as fuck to Richard Pryor and Eddie Murphy even did a whole bit about how he treated him a similar way. And like with Noname, plenty of people would easily take Cosby's side. The Cos showed suburban America a new image of successful black elegance. He gave them images of people that were like them. The negative byproduct was that it also presented the idea that to be respected, they needed to assimilate to them. That's why A Different World was a more important show, but also so much less soluble for mainstream America. It was "too black."

I'm not surprised that people will view the educated conscious spoken word poet woman as being attacked by some uncivilized rapper, but I don't see that in his lyrics at all. I see the opposite. This is more layered to me in some ways, but also pretty simple to me, if you actually listen to the lyrics.

So... I can't really accept the "c'mon man" on this one. I understand if that's a response to me assuming he's right, without context, but let's be real about how many will assume he's wrong by your post. I'm someone that already sees her as incredibly disingenuous. And yeah, when I met her, she was terrible. I simply reached out to shake her hand and introduced myself. She left my hand hanging and eye rolled me. I had a press pass and was covering the event. I've met folks from Killer Mike and Scarface to KRS-One. All pretty solid, because they had no ego and nothing to prove. I already know she thinks she's above certain people, but she's not above wearing them on her T-shirts for clout.

You might disagree with my take, but I genuinely do not believe this situation is as cut and dry as some of you might see it.
You admitted you made up your mind before you saw what it's about. That's the only reason I said "c'mon man." Then you made a bunch of assumptions asserting that you are sure what he said is justified while admitting you don't know specifically what he was responding to. Is your argument really "I hate Noname for a good reason, therefore anything anyone does that is negative toward her is right?"

I don't understand your comparisons to Cosby. I've personally never seen Noname say anything classist. Not to say I'm sure it isn't out there, but I don't think that is what J Cole is responding to. I think you are putting a ton of words and context behind what he said that isn't there.

I think Noname has said some really shitty stuff and I never remotely implied she was beyond criticism. The only point I made is that J Cole could have directed his criticism elsewhere, since despite her obviously apparent flaws, Noname seems to genuinely, passionately care about helping to make the world a better place for black people and is doing something about it in her way.

What J Cole said doesn't make a lot of sense. She never tweeted anything specifically about J Cole. She just made a generic tweet about how some of people's favorite conscious rappers aren't doing anything. The fact that J Cole, as he even admits in the song, felt self conscious that he wasn't doing enough, then decided to use that energy to make a whole song about how he doesn't like her tone, instead of using his platform to do something positive, is ridiculous. That is the point I was making.

He seems to think that she needs to try to educate people instead of just tweeting angry stuff. She literally started a book club that travels around to black owned book stores and uses the funds she raises to send books to prisons.

You and plenty of other people have legitimate reason to dislike or disregard Noname. But, if you think that him dedicating an entire song to condescend to her about how she condescends to other people is "right," I really don't get it. Seems pretty hypocritical to me.

He's not even making any criticisms that line up with yours. He's just saying, don't talk to me like you're mad, talk to me like I'm a child and spoon feed the information. J Cole is weirdly saying "you're right about everything, just don't be such a bitch about it."

Nevermind that weird line about why it took his ancestors 200 years to get free.

The strongest opinion I had about J Cole before this is that I find him boring most of the time and don't really get why so many people think he's a top 5 rapper now. If you asked me who had a more problematic public persona, I definitely would have said Noname. I also don't think this has anything to do with feminism. You seem to be projecting a lot of judgemental assumptions on me that are completely baseless.
 
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I just think it's pretty weird and shitty that an artist with a much larger platform dropped a tune to publicly call out a smaller lesser known artist just cause he thinks her methods of raising awareness and being an activist aren't correct. Some of the stuff he criticises about internet activism etc in the song could be perfectly valid but to channel that criticism towards a specific person is definitely not the right thing to do imo. If he is responding to something that Noname said about him (and being perfectly honest we don't know this for sure, or even that he's talking about Noname specifically although that does seem likely) it's at best a subtweet which was probably not worth addressing or at worst a private remark in which case it was probably best handled privately?
 
When I met Noname in Austin a few years ago she was very kind to me. She took time to connect and we talked at length about how amazing the artists coming out of Chicago are, she was eager to support other artists by suggesting I check their music out. She seemed shy and reserved but not rude or condescending in our interaction. I don't really see her tweets as aimed at J. Cole and his song seems like weird beef in my opinion.
 
@dhodo I'll try to break this down, so you can see what I meant by that. Something is being lost here, but that actually emphasizes HOW things are interpreted differently. I'll just quote your comment in sections and that will probably max out the character count, so I'll split this in two posts.

You admitted you made up your mind before you saw what it's about. That's the only reason I said "c'mon man." Then you made a bunch of assumptions asserting that you are sure what he said is justified while admitting you don't know specifically what he was responding to. Is your argument really "I hate Noname for a good reason, therefore anything anyone does that is negative toward her is right?"

There seems to be a disconnect regarding exactly what my reason is for disliking her. My reason is that I believe she's bougie playing woke. So, if we're discussing someone criticizing other people about this sort of stuff, yeah, my assumption is that she probably did it, but that I'd go listen to the song, which is exactly what I did. After listening to it and not seeing it in the same way, it felt like others were asserting just as much into these lyrics, but from the opposite angle.

I don't understand your comparisons to Cosby. I've personally never seen Noname say anything classist. Not to say I'm sure it isn't out there, but I don't think that is what J Cole is responding to. I think you are putting a ton of words and context behind what he said that isn't there.

I have literally dealt with her being classist toward me. You might also not recognize or perceive things as being classist that I do. Being from a similar economic background, social, and/or racial background as someone else can make you blind to the way that another one takes things in. It's another thing that's so systemic that it slips by. For example, I could roll out a never ending scroll of the micro aggressions and racist shit I experience that "woke" people do on a daily basis.

Cole's song explained that his subject came from another background where her parents were able to educate her on paper about history on an academic level. So, the fact that you guys keep referring to Noname's book club... it doesn't really make a different case for what he's saying. Its the type of activism that makes sense to a certain type of person, but maybe not another. A lot of people even like movies like The Help and Blindside and believe that white savior filmmaking is saving the world, while I see them as incredibly racist. This is obviously different, but you have decided that her methods are the methods that jive with you and make sense regarding progress and justice. If she's tweeting judgmental things towards the approaches of others, however; then SHE is the one telling other people that THEIR activism is wrong. That's one of my main points here. How are you going to come on here and attack Cole for doing what he's responding to someone else doing? You can't start the story halfway through and reframe the person responding as the instigator. If you think he overreacted or is over sensitive, and is wrong, that's one thing, but in his mind, this is clearly a response to an attack and not an attack in itself.

Noname literally said she was quitting music, because she doesn't want to dance for her white crowds. So, who is she bringing out? White crowds. Who is her music appealing to? White crowds. Maybe something about her reads well with a white suburban fanbase that may even sound condescending or less appealing to a non white fanbase. I know that I see a lot of MLK memes about him being non violent and not a lot of pro Malcom X shit on my Facebook feed. And maybe that's an issue within herself, that she's born from a different backdrop and wants to approach race from a more suburban library mindset, and she's upset that isn't connecting enough to black crowds who pack Westside Gunn shows. Maybe her tweets and judgments are connecting more with white crowds, too.

Her case is that a Tweet means more than a catalog worth of music addressing these issues at the core in an incredibly nuanced way. You can even look as close as KOD. So, you've admitted that you think Cole is boring. Cool. There's bias from both of us in how we interpret this situation, but he's gone out of his way to make songs and videos directly related to systemic issues. For all we know, he's out there writing music and putting something together right now. Maybe it doesn't register that he needs to post like that -- Dave Chappelle addresses this in his recent special, how he chose to fall back, because it's difficult to understand the benefit of his voice detracting and overshadowing those doing the real work, right now. Not everybody fucks with Twitter. I don't. So, on one hand, we can claim Cole has a bigger platform, but at the same time, say he needs to be using another corporate social media outlet as his chosen method? So, if a song has that much more impact than a tweet, as is being claimed here, then that, in a sense, kind of takes that argument out at the legs. He's not doing enough by addressing these issues, but she's doing more by tweeting, while refusing to make music anymore?

My reference to Cosby is simply that he was criticizing lower class black people for their own approach, but as someone from a different economic and social background. As far as assumptions, has it been confirmed exactly what Cole is referring to? Is it THAT tweet alone? Because, it sounds like in the song he is referring to everything. I'm strictly going by his lyrics and, from how it reads to me, he's saying that she's from a different environment and background, but her critiques sound to him like she's judging people who aren't and how they approach the world because they aren't.


...
 
I think Noname has said some really shitty stuff and I never remotely implied she was beyond criticism. The only point I made is that J Cole could have directed his criticism elsewhere, since despite her obviously apparent flaws, Noname seems to genuinely, passionately care about helping to make the world a better place for black people and is doing something about it in her way.

See... this is what's confusing me. You're saying that Cole could have directed his criticism elsewhere, because this is about how Noname is trying to do something "about it in her way." Cole's entire song seems to be that she could be directing her criticism elsewhere, because a lot of people are doing what they do in their own way. This is why this seems so hypocritical to me. If she's critiquing him on his approach, he can't respond? When he does, he's critiquing her approach to activism? What's her approach in this context? Attacking his?


What J Cole said doesn't make a lot of sense. She never tweeted anything specifically about J Cole. She just made a generic tweet about how some of people's favorite conscious rappers aren't doing anything. The fact that J Cole, as he even admits in the song, felt self conscious that he wasn't doing enough, then decided to use that energy to make a whole song about how he doesn't like her tone, instead of using his platform to do something positive, is ridiculous. That is the point I was making.

If it's a generic tweet and isn't about him, then maybe he is tripping. But, at the same time, we are 100% convinced this song is about Noname and about THIS tweet? If there's evidence on any side, then I guess that would flush this out. But, again, I'm only going from what that song sounded like to me, based on his lyrics. Even if he's off, that's the perspective that I'm getting from what he's saying and it's not one where he's critiquing her approach to activism, it's one where he's responding to what he feels is her critique of his approach and the negativity that he sees in doing that, at large.

He seems to think that she needs to try to educate people instead of just tweeting angry stuff. She literally started a book club that travels around to black owned book stores and uses the funds she raises to send books to prisons.

Again, she seems to think he, or people like him, need to be tweeting angry stuff, instead of educating. What's the difference? This book club shit is still a model that makes sense to certain people and not others. Her fanbase also sees her as the one "educating" people, but maybe people need to understand where they need to be educated themselves, sometimes, rather than deeming themselves the educators and finger wagging toward others. BECAUSE she does this, she has taken a space where she believes she is in a position to critique and judge other people for not doing enough, even if they are from environments that are much different than hers. That comes across like that Cosby shit.

She trashes her white suburban fanbase, but this kind of exemplifies who is going to go to bat for her and who connects with her. She has a book club. That means a lot to you, but not to me.


You and plenty of other people have legitimate reason to dislike or disregard Noname. But, if you think that him dedicating an entire song to condescend to her about how she condescends to other people is "right," I really don't get it. Seems pretty hypocritical to me.

I mean... you were the one that said he was criticizing how she chooses to be an activist, and that seems like a total flip on the reality of this situation. It sounds like she called him a fake activist making money off of a catalog pretending to care. That's a pretty fucked up thing to say, especially if your reasoning is that you started a book club, after growing up in your mom's bookstore.

He's not even making any criticisms that line up with yours. He's just saying, don't talk to me like you're mad, talk to me like I'm a child and spoon feed the information. J Cole is weirdly saying "you're right about everything, just don't be such a bitch about it."

Nevermind that weird line about why it took his ancestors 200 years to get free.

He never says that she should talk to him like a child and spoon feed him information. He also doesn't say that she's right about everything. He says that, as a black man and artist, there's a natural weight and responsibility there. I'm not a huge fan familiar with his entire catalog, but I have seen him make focused efforts to respond to issues that he believes deserve being addressed. Whether anyone is into that or not, doesn't really matter; I still think that's pretty undeniable, even by his last album alone. Even his track responding to folks like Lil Pump resulted in him meeting with the guy and having a videotaped conversation that was incredibly respectful and showed him trying to reach out and understand a community that he, himself, could be just as easily blamed for speaking down to. So, he's saying that he thinks it's pretty dismissive -- and, probably, somewhat hurtful -- of Noname to judge him as a fake activist, that's just selling records but not doing anything. He's not asking her to educate him and tell him that he should be tweeting. He's saying that it's difficult to be a figure making money, but still experiencing racism as an individual, and then wondering if it's some kind of betrayal in itself to become successful, while others are still struggling. He says that he questions the best way to move himself, since he's supposed to also be some sort of figure to look to. But he adds that she is wrong about the assumptions that she's made about him, because, even though he doubts if he can ever do enough, someone came up to him and thanked him for all that he does recently. The point is that not everybody has to move in the way that she does by the methods she demands and can still reach people. They aren't simply checked out on an issue, because they haven't presented themselves to her in a fashion she deems sufficient.

No matter whether or not it was simply that one tweet or there was more to it, she wasn't being constructive with her comments. She was claiming that SHE is doing what others should. She was saying that these other artists aren't doing shit. It's pretty clear to me that this is a response to that accusation and it's also claiming that she's finger wagging at other people and it's kind of fucked up, since her judgments are coming through her own lens. He's saying, "maybe you are right and maybe YOUR method is better than us "ignorant" lower class blacks, but do you think that telling us we're not doing it in your way of holier than though high class activism is productive? If you are serious about this shit, then why are you attacking the very people that you claim you want to help and "educate?" This whole situation is new to a lot of people, especially at this magnitud, and everyone is dealing with it in their way and stumbling through it at the moment."

The reference to why it took 200 years to get free is because there isn't a simple answer. This is a heavy fucking topic. This isn't just some TMZ team Edward vs team Jacob shit. This is a responsibility that weighs on the shoulders of certain people every day, beyond some academic analysis. Taking shots from people that are supposed to be within your own community can be more difficult to hear. You can interpret whether or not you believe her attack against him is just, and whether his response is necessary, but it's really not up to us to do that. I reread his lyrics and they aren't mean. The tweet being referenced here IS actually really shitty. His song says to consider how other people live and are experiencing this. Her tweet said these folks are sell outs making money off a theme and abandoning their people. I'm basing everything off that alone.

Again, this is how I'm reading his response. I'm not saying who is right or wrong. I'm saying that your take isn't my take from this on lyrics alone.


The strongest opinion I had about J Cole before this is that I find him boring most of the time and don't really get why so many people think he's a top 5 rapper now. If you asked me who had a more problematic public persona, I definitely would have said Noname. I also don't think this has anything to do with feminism. You seem to be projecting a lot of judgemental assumptions on me that are completely baseless.

@chrb98 said that his song was "sexist." My whole post wasn't about you. So, in this specific case, you might be projecting.
 
been re listening to this album, I forgot how good it is.

Yeah. Baby eating definitely seems to turn some people off, but it's a classic. The second half is kind of a more straight forward take on G-funk music, while the first half almost sounds like he tried to go that route and it just organically mutated into something much darker and grimier. Lynch produced it himself. He should have continued with that formula.
 
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I've been following this J. Cole/Noname situation and this all seems kinda ridiculous to me.

I'm not sure why Cole thought Noname was referencing him with that Tweet unless she's made other statements about him. I definitely don't think of his whole discography "referencing Black plight". I think of Cole as more of a backpack rapper with a similar NC childhood as I had. I'm pretty sure the tweet was referencing Kendrick.

On the flip-side, I'm bothered that Noname thinks Tweeting is the most effective thing these guys can do. Even if she was referencing Kendrick, I've seen images and video of Kendrick marching with protestors in LA and Cole marching in Charlotte (in a damn Covid hotspot I might add). As a Black dude, that kind of in-the-streets protest, especially from celebrities who have every excuse not to be in the street protesting, means a lot more to me that a Tweet shot off from the comfort of one's own million dollar home. If she'd have replaced "track" with "tweet" I'd be with her. There is a disturbing lack of artistic response to this current situation. Curry and Daylyt's track was cool, LL had some bars, YG's FTP was kinda weak, but appreciated. I thought Conway's verse was the most evocative and effective. But that's it. People are stuck at home during Coronavirus and they can't use their art to make a statement. It's disheartening.

Finally, I get that Cole was pressed (not sure why...projection?), but did it really require a new song where you put this young Black woman on blast? There has to be more to this story, otherwise Cole is WAAAAAAYYYY too sensitive with this overstated response. He better not have a real rap beef with anybody ever.

The whole thing just seems hella corny to me from pretty much every side.
 
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