Hot Take/ Musical Confession Thread!

I think part of the issue with the argument, at least for me, is the volume of singles and the somewhat arbitrary timeframe. This is kind of like arguing that Adam Vinatieri is the most enduringly good football player because he played the most years and had some exceptional moments. Maybe technically true, but much like Aerosmith, Adam Vinatieri can take a nap for much of the game and it doesn't matter. It's an interesting discussion for sure.

So, let's look into Aerosmith using the metric of hit singles (which I would probably argue isn't nearly as relevant to popularity of an artist in America, especially today)*. Here are the years in which they had Top 20 singles (I'll use Top 20, eye test wise it feels like the songs that made it 11-20 for them were generally bonafide hits) with Top 10 bolded

75, 76, 87, 88, 88, 89, 89, 90, 93, 93, 94, 98, 01

They had, as is said, Top 10 hits in four decades, but they had over a decade where they just weren't popularly relevant that just happens to fall between the decade divides, and while the 90-98 gap did have a lot of smaller hits, they still had small gaps between these numbers where they just weren't relevant. I think that, combined with that they conveniently fell right into the area where rock had a foothold in the Top 40 radio scene, makes them particularly suited to this particular challenge. They also were the beneficiary of the quasi-random soundtrack mega hit otherwise they'd have another 11 year gap between Top 10 songs.

Comparing to another band you mentioned, the Rolling Stones:

64, 64, 65, 65, 65, 65, 66, 66, 67, 67, 68, 69, 71, 72, 73, 73, 74, 74, 76, 78, 78, 80, 81, 81, 82, 83, 86, 89

So technically three decades but roughly the same number of years but much more consistent output and more big singles to keep them in the ears of listeners. The argument that Aerosmith edges them out because of Jaded is a lot to ask that particular song to carry. It helps it win the trivia question most likely. Like, I'm ok if you want to rule out Kokomo for the Beach Boys given how bizarre of a single that was, but it wouldn't be too much of a stretch in that case for someone to rule out a soundtrack hit (as huge as it was) and Jaded which put grandpa on TRL for a hot second in that case either, and Aerosmith is down to 15 years.

*On this point, I am thinking of a band like Green Day. Purely in U.S. Top 40, their range is probably five years. However, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who hasn't heard a lot of Green Day's 1990s output and once you go into the sub-genre charts like U.S. Alternative (which I think especially for rock is important now that rock music really doesn't hit the Billboard charts like it used to), they've been putting out Top 5 singles consistently for the last 26 years. Like, Good Riddance wasn't a Top 100 song but it's more relevant in the American psyche than a slew of chart toppers. This also would help Aerosmith's longevity argument - if you include the U.S. Rock charts for them it gives them a much more robust discography). I'd probably say if we want to center the argument around "enduringly popular band", I think we'd need to move away from chart performance and use a variety of measures to really gauge that especially as listening methods are so much more spread out now and different mediums will provide different popular artists, and that popularity is much more of a fleeting and subjective concept now.

Edit: If you want an answer everyone will really hate, we're getting to the point where Maroon 5 might be getting into this conversation based purely on amount of time with high level singles as a band though we can have hope here that people are giving up on that dream.
 
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I'm not sure if it's a hot take since I'm not really stating an opinion - just a way of looking at facts that yields a surprising result (at least to me). I'm not saying that chart success makes them good - just, like, culturally relevant in a way that I don't think most people give them credit for. Of all of the legacy acts that have high-priced tours, I don't think Aerosmith gets recognition for the fact that, love them or hate them, they actually tried to keep making NEW music and were pretty damn successful in making new music over a long span of time, rather than just coasting on the success of their past hits.

Mostly I posted it here to see if someone could come up with any other band that had a longer stretch of top 10 singles. Maybe it's more of a "musical confession" because I haven't been able to come up with any. I think it's interesting that there are so many solo artists with that kind of longevity, but bands don't seem to last nearly as long - maybe it's easier to stay in the music business with fewer people to pay and negotiate decision-making with. It's wild to me that Aerosmith still exists and tours with the same 5 band members they started with 50 years ago.

For whatever reason, it seems like most bands tend to be rock bands, and rock bands tend to focus less on hit singles now and more on complete albums. And maybe Aerosmith has more of a pop sensibility to their music than other rock bands, and that's why they've been more successful on the singles charts, so maybe that skews things here.

Ultimately, I was trying to think of a way of determining with objective criteria how long a band has put out new music successfully that at least registers with people in a measurably significant way. I feel like measuring album sales is messy and is distorted by the fact that pre-streaming, people would just buy albums by popular bands because that was the only way to listen to the album* - singles don't really have that issue as much. And the issue with album sales post-streaming is that album sales in general have declined so much that "topping the charts" doesn't necessarily mean what it used to. Case in point [for both of those points], Aerosmith's last SIX albums have all made it to at least #5 on the Billboard 200 albums chart. That includes 2005's "Honkin' on Bobo" and 2012's "Music From Another Dimension!". So, if we wanted to talk high-charting albums, their streak would go from 1976 with "Rocks" at #3 to 2012 with MFAD at #5 - they'd still have a top 5 album in each of 5 decades (1 in the 70s, 1 in the 80s, 2 in the 90s, 2 in the 00s, and 1 in the 10s) - but all of that seems to be a less accurate way of measuring cultural relevance and significance. Every Rolling Stones album has charted in the top 5 on the Billboard 200, other than their debut which came in at #11 - but they're not all great, culturally significant albums. For both of these bands, the albums chart highly just because the bands are so popular that people just buy the albums without really checking to see if they enjoy that particular collection of songs.

*I feel like there's a weird phenomenon when you look through many artists'/bands' album sales where the albums that are the most popular or considered the best didn't necessarily chart the highest in their discography. Sometimes, their highest-charting album owes that status to the album(s) that were released right before in that artist/band's discography, which may have been a slower burn in generating sales, but built up the expectations for the new release. Like in Aerosmith's discography, I think Toys in the Attic is great, it charted at #11, but the album that came after it went to #3. "Nine Lives" went to #1 even though I don't think it's really considered to be that great - its biggest single was that song "Pink." But the album that came before it was "Get a Grip" which was their highest selling album ever worldwide.

--One last fun fact about Aerosmith: "On June 27, 1994, Aerosmith became the first major artist to release a song as an exclusive digital download, making the unreleased track "Head First" available as a 4-megabyte WAV file to Compuserve subscribers. Around 10,000 users downloaded the song in the first few days, even though at the time, most users accessed the service with a modem, meaning the download would have taken several hours."
"Honkin' on Bobo"?
 
I think part of the issue with the argument, at least for me, is the volume of singles and the somewhat arbitrary timeframe. This is kind of like arguing that Adam Vinatieri is the most enduringly good football player because he played the most years and had some exceptional moments. Maybe technically true, but much like Aerosmith, Adam Vinatieri can take a nap for much of the game and it doesn't matter. It's an interesting discussion for sure.

So, let's look into Aerosmith using the metric of hit singles (which I would probably argue isn't nearly as relevant to popularity of an artist in America, especially today)*. Here are the years in which they had Top 20 singles (I'll use Top 20, eye test wise it feels like the songs that made it 11-20 for them were generally bonafide hits) with Top 10 bolded

75, 76, 87, 88, 88, 89, 89, 90, 93, 93, 94, 98, 01

They had, as is said, Top 10 hits in four decades, but they had over a decade where they just weren't popularly relevant that just happens to fall between the decade divides, and while the 90-98 gap did have a lot of smaller hits, they still had small gaps between these numbers where they just weren't relevant. I think that, combined with that they conveniently fell right into the area where rock had a foothold in the Top 40 radio scene, makes them particularly suited to this particular challenge. They also were the beneficiary of the quasi-random soundtrack mega hit otherwise they'd have another 11 year gap between Top 10 songs.

Comparing to another band you mentioned, the Rolling Stones:

64, 64, 65, 65, 65, 65, 66, 66, 67, 67, 68, 69, 71, 72, 73, 73, 74, 74, 76, 78, 78, 80, 81, 81, 82, 83, 86, 89

So technically three decades but roughly the same number of years but much more consistent output and more big singles to keep them in the ears of listeners. The argument that Aerosmith edges them out because of Jaded is a lot to ask that particular song to carry. It helps it win the trivia question most likely. Like, I'm ok if you want to rule out Kokomo for the Beach Boys given how bizarre of a single that was, but it wouldn't be too much of a stretch in that case for someone to rule out a soundtrack hit (as huge as it was) and Jaded which put grandpa on TRL for a hot second in that case either, and Aerosmith is down to 15 years.

*On this point, I am thinking of a band like Green Day. Purely in U.S. Top 40, their range is probably five years. However, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who hasn't heard a lot of Green Day's 1990s output and once you go into the sub-genre charts like U.S. Alternative (which I think especially for rock is important now that rock music really doesn't hit the Billboard charts like it used to), they've been putting out Top 5 singles consistently for the last 26 years. Like, Good Riddance wasn't a Top 100 song but it's more relevant in the American psyche than a slew of chart toppers. This also would help Aerosmith's longevity argument - if you include the U.S. Rock charts for them it gives them a much more robust discography). I'd probably say if we want to center the argument around "enduringly popular band", I think we'd need to move away from chart performance and use a variety of measures to really gauge that especially as listening methods are so much more spread out now and different mediums will provide different popular artists, and that popularity is much more of a fleeting and subjective concept now.

Edit: If you want an answer everyone will really hate, we're getting to the point where Maroon 5 might be getting into this conversation based purely on amount of time with high level singles as a band though we can have hope here that people are giving up on that dream.
All excellent points.

“Jaded” isn’t my favorite single either, but I would posit that “Just Push Play” (from that same album) would have charted higher if it wasn’t on a Dodge Ram commercial during virtually every commercial break for much of 2001, haha. It’s a jam. And “Jaded” is at least as much of a jam as the Rolling Stones’ “Mixed Emotions” (1989) or their cover of “Harlem Shuffle.” (1986). Without those two, the Stones would have had their last top 20 hit in 1983, and would be confined to a 19-year span, which is the same span we’re talking about with Aerosmith if you get rid of “Jaded” and IDWTMAT.

I would also argue that “I don’t want to miss a thing” counts as it has the full involvement of the band - whereas Kokomo not involving Brian Wilson is a pretty egregious. Regardless, even if you give the beach boys Kokomo, Aerosmith still beats their streak.

Another point which I mentioned, but bears repeating, is that Aerosmith’s first top ten single was actually released two years earlier on their debut album in 1973, and I haven’t been giving them credit for those two extra years on the front end in any of these comparisons.

Regardless, I think the question of how to measure enduring popularity for a band is interesting. I totally agree that Aerosmith fell off in the late 70s and early 80s. So much so, that a couple members briefly left the band due to drugs and infighting and were replaced for a few years. They made a comeback with an assist from Run DMC. But then they came back, arguably bigger than ever. And it wasn’t just a reunion tour to recycle their old hits - they went to work and put out a string of successful albums with brand new material. Maybe a better way of phrasing my question is, “How many bands have challenged themselves in multiple decades to put out new material that doesn’t completely suck?”

I’d also note that my initial thoughts about this were limited just to American bands, and that’s initially what I was going to post. Even that seemed like a hot take. But then I got curious about how many other bands globally could beat them by this specific metric, and I couldn’t come up with any. It probably gives Aerosmith a bit of an unfair advantage to measure a non-US band’s success by their chart performance in the US. But it’s crazy to me that there’s at least some argument to be made that they are in the same conversation as the Rolling Stones for having the longest span of churning out new hits. The Stones definitely win if you look at volume of hits and consistency over the time period. But generally, I just don’t think that most people think of Aerosmith as having been around making popular music as long as they actually have. Like how many other bands are even in that conversation? My introduction to them was the song from the Armageddon soundtrack and then riding their ride at Disney World, after which I bought Big Ones in the post-ride gift shop haha.
 
Watching Orville Peck on the Lollapalooza stream…

1. his voice is annoying
2. He is as inauthentic as any singer I’ve ever heard - I just don’t believe him
3. It’s not even country, it’s the cure with a bad twang singer
4. You hipsters like him cause of his schtick
5. He might as well be Father John McPrissy Pants (except FJM does actually have a nice voice)
 
Watching Orville Peck on the Lollapalooza stream…

1. his voice is annoying
2. He is as inauthentic as any singer I’ve ever heard - I just don’t believe him
3. It’s not even country, it’s the cure with a bad twang singer
4. You hipsters like him cause of his schtick
5. He might as well be Father John McPrissy Pants (except FJM does actually have a nice voice)
Yeesh. “You Hipsters”.

1. to each their own but to my ear dude’s vocals are in the same realm as other crooners such as ; Morrissey, Johnny Cash, Chris Isaac, Roy Orbison

2. Musicans have shticks. Bowie wasn’t really a space alien, Dylan wasn’t really a hobo tramp.

3. I don’t think anyone has was ever presented Orville as Pure or Authentic Country.

4. Personally I enjoyed his music in spite of his shtick initially

5. Father John Misty is another talented artist that “Purists” whine about inauthenticy. When he has always been open and upfront about his public persona being phony in a much more legitimate way than many artist who claim to be “real”. If you don’t enjoy his persona that’s fine but getting huffy about it being inauthentic is a bit rich
 
Yeesh. “You Hipsters”.

1. to each their own but to my ear dude’s vocals are in the same realm as other crooners such as ; Morrissey, Johnny Cash, Chris Isaac, Roy Orbison

2. Musicans have shticks. Bowie wasn’t really a space alien, Dylan wasn’t really a hobo tramp.

3. I don’t think anyone has was ever presented Orville as Pure or Authentic Country.

4. Personally I enjoyed his music in spite of his shtick initially

5. Father John Misty is another talented artist that “Purists” whine about inauthenticy. When he has always been open and upfront about his public persona being phony in a much more legitimate way than many artist who claim to be “real”. If you don’t enjoy his persona that’s fine but getting huffy about it being inauthentic is a bit rich
A. This is the hot takes thread
B. My FJM comparison was not so much about schtick as he’s another artist that lots of people I dig the music taste of seem to be into that I don’t only not get down with, but actively dislike the music of.
 
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A. This is the hot takes thread
B. My FJM comparison was not so much about schtick as he’s another artist that’s lots of people I dig the music taste of seem to be into that I don’t only not get down with, but actively dislike the music of.
I. Do we need a separate “hot reaction” thread? I figured if you were not wanting discourse about your hot take you wouldn’t have posted it in an internet forum

II. The main issue that detractors seem to have with both artist has more to do with their respective stage personas than their actual music abilities. I am of the opinion if most of the critics had heard their music objectively prior to heavy publicity pushing their shticks most would have a vastly different opinion. Speaking personally it took time in both instances for me to give either a fair shake because the hype machine spent more time pushing the personas than the music and my natural inclination is to discount attention seeking gimmicks as “lesser than”. But in both instances I was able to overcome my initial bias and have been rewarded for it with great tunes. If your issue is a genuine disdain for the music itself than I can certainly appreciate that. It just seemed that more of your concerns were about his persona than his music.

III. It’s slow at work today and debating music on the internet is helping me pass the time.

IV. No hard feelings I ❤️ you Lee!
 
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I. Do we need a separate “hot reaction” thread? I figured if you were not wanting discourse about your hot take you wouldn’t have posted it in an internet forum

II. The main issue that detractors seem to have with both artist has more to do with their respective stage personas than their actual music abilities. I am of the opinion if most of the critics had heard their music objectively prior to heavy publicity pushing their shticks most would have a vastly different opinion. Speaking personally it took time in both instances for me to give either a fair shake because the hype machine spent more time pushing the personas than the music and my natural inclination is to discount attention seeking gimmicks as “lesser than”. But in both instances I was able to overcome my initial bias and have been rewarded for it with great tunes. If you issue is a genuine disdain for the music itself than I can certainly appreciate that. It just seemed that more of your concerns were about his persona than his music.

III. It’s slow at work today and debating music on the internet is helping me pass the time.

IV. No hard feelings I ❤️ you Lee!
I spent a year listening to FJM. Culminating in seeing him live. This is when I decided he wasn’t for me. Besides the fact that I just couldn’t with the world view he presents in his music… seeing young women singing along to the song that’s a letter from a hotel about how awful a person he is like it was brown-eyed girl sealed the deal in my trying to figure out if I could deal with the satire. Like I said, he has a nice voice… I just can’t with everything else.

I have not spent as much time with Peck, but I don’t enjoy his voice. I don’t even mind his schtick. Just don’t like the music.

There is merit into deep dives even in musicians I don’t like as Jethro Tull has become a fave of mine even though I had long written them off and i owe a debt to @HiFi Guy for that
 
I spent a year listening to FJM. Culminating in seeing him live. This is when I decided he wasn’t for me. Besides the fact that I just couldn’t with the world view he presents in his music… seeing young women singing along to the song that’s a letter from a hotel about how awful a person he is like it was brown-eyed girl sealed the deal in my trying to figure out if I could deal with the satire. Like I said, he has a nice voice… I just can’t with everything else.

I have not spent as much time with Peck, but I don’t enjoy his voice. I don’t even mind his schtick. Just don’t like the music.

There is merit into deep dives even in musicians I don’t like as Jethro Tull has become a fave of mine even though I had long written them off and i owe a debt to @HiFi Guy for that
I can appreciate all of that. I understand people not enjoying either artist’s stage persona or music. That makes sense to me. It’s the attacks on inauthenticity that ruffle my feathers a bit.
 
I don't know. I don't think they're either over or underrated. Perfectly rated. I usually hear people talk about them with respect they deserve.
I do kind of agree with @Benhawaii a bit as far as people not appreciating how good this threesome was for the better part of 50 years and as @Yer Ol' Uncle D mentioned in another thread, with the same 3 guys. Underrated may be the wrong word, but I find that with a lot of the groups us "Older" guys grew up with its always interesting that people who say they appreciate good music in its entirety don't know about a lot of these bands, ZZ Top being one of them.

The music appreciation door swings in funny ways sometimes, I take the time to check out new bands, new genres and am thrilled to say that on more than one occasion find myself being a new fan, but I also find that some "younger" music fans tend to block out a lot of the music of the past unless it's a heavy hitter like Zeppelin or Pink Floyd.

Years ago when I was working retail, and I still tell this story because it just makes me smile, we had a CD player and would bring in our own music to close the store to. I brought in some Wings one night and one of my female co-workers loved the music, after some back and forth conversation and bringing up The Beatles, she said to me, "You mean Paul McCartney was in another band before Wings?" ..........out of the mouths of babes, lol
 
I do kind of agree with @Benhawaii a bit as far as people not appreciating how good this threesome was for the better part of 50 years and as @Yer Ol' Uncle D mentioned in another thread, with the same 3 guys. Underrated may be the wrong word, but I find that with a lot of the groups us "Older" guys grew up with its always interesting that people who say they appreciate good music in its entirety don't know about a lot of these bands, ZZ Top being one of them.

The music appreciation door swings in funny ways sometimes, I take the time to check out new bands, new genres and am thrilled to say that on more than one occasion find myself being a new fan, but I also find that some "younger" music fans tend to block out a lot of the music of the past unless it's a heavy hitter like Zeppelin or Pink Floyd.
Maybe it's all a reflection of circles as well. I'm in my late 30s and had a close group of friends in high school and we all (mostly) played instruments. One friend had a basement where we all would meet and bring our stuff cause we kept a drum set there, had a big ol Twin Reverb, and PA. Of course, a lot of us played guitar and so a group like ZZ Top with a guitarist like Billy Gibbons was often on the stereo (a bunch of us collected records then too) and in our discussions. Plus seeing some of the later success they had with music videos, I guess I kind of always saw them as being well lauded. In general, I find the idea of "over" and "under" rated to be unwieldy. It def works for some cult artists but is often - IMO/E - a shorthand of the individual to express their personal admiration.

Side note, I got to see them once in my early 20s and it was fantastic what those three guys could do to a stage.
 
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