Hot Take/ Musical Confession Thread!

I tend to think of the language thing in the way that I think everyone should be able to say whatever they want free from government censorship. Sadly while in a world of reason we could combat hate speech with good arguments, our world is full of irrational people who cannot be reasoned with, so maybe absolute free speech can't work. But if we, members of the public, want to come for your ass or ignore you because you're offensive then that's the price you pay for it. The real issue is that it has to do with power dynamics. Like Landlords trying to claim that the term is a slur and wanting to freshen it up as "housing providers". They can get bent and I'll call them worse because they have the power. But when a marginalized or dominated group are pushing against the power, I support them and their desires to fight against language that belittles them. I don't support the power pushing against the marginalized to control them. Beyonce is an interesting case because as a Black woman she occupies a space that is historically marginalized, but as a billionaire she is one of the most powerful people alive today. So she should be held accountable. And it's never a clear cut thing. One of my students is confined to a wheelchair and has been since birth. He identifies himself as spastic and has a device implanted that allows him to send electric impulses through his spine to help him sit up when he has episodes (which are pretty constant). I'm not going to use the word even though he uses it, and I'm certainly not going to tell him the word he uses to identify with is offensive, because relative to him I'm in the position of power.

At the end of the day though, language is often a distraction from the real troubles in our world. Who cares if people don't use slurs if they still treat people in a discriminatory way that the use of the slur implies? It might soften the blow of racism, sexism, and ableism, but too often it's a screen bigots hide behind. Thinking, "well I didn't call him a ****** so I clearly wasn't being racist." Using language in a manner that respects the disadvantaged is literally the least we can do but far too many act like it's already a bridge too far. Anyway thanks for coming to my week three lecture in intro to sociology.
 
Joe Mac said:
Art can’t be collaborative?

An artist can’t pick collaborators specifically to create a sonic signature that fits into a wider artistic vision?
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Yea it can, but she isn’t presented in that way. Just look to the fine art world. A lot of famous contemporary artists aren’t even involved in the fabrication of their art, but that’s the picture everyone has.
 
Dtknuckles said:
Yea it can, but she isn’t presented in that way. Just look to the fine art world. A lot of famous contemporary artists aren’t even involved in the fabrication of their art, but that’s the picture everyone has.
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There's a great Simpson's episode called The Book Job about this.
 
Dtknuckles said:
Doesn’t this practice go back to the Renaissance? Probably even further. However the first person that pops in my mind is Warhol.
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Definitely. Most of the "masters" only oversaw their workshop and put their name on it if it was to their standard.

But it's a bit different than the marketing mass produced culture industry we get these days.
 
Hemotep said:
Definitely. Most of the "masters" only oversaw their workshop and put their name on it if it was to their standard.

But it's a bit different than the marketing mass produced culture industry we get these days.
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Yea, I asked my Art professor friend about why I should go see the Takashi Murakami exhibit at the Broad. He said something about Manga in the fine art world, but then went on to complain about the fact that he doesn’t make his art.

But then I think about that art collective Friends With You. They make amazing stuff, but seem to be a little more clear with who is responsible for it.
 
Joe Mac said:
Art can’t be collaborative?

An artist can’t pick collaborators specifically to create a sonic signature that fits into a wider artistic vision?
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Art can be collaborative, sure. But we're attributing all the credit and "integrity" to one person when their art was created by a large group of people. I wasn't using hyperbole when I said 8 other people have writing credits on that song. That's not even counting the 6 OTHER producers.

I think of it like an advertising agency. They're artists, working collaboratively, creating a product. I'm not questioning their artistic integrity when they produce a toothpaste ad.

I already have issues with Beyonce not giving feature credits to artists HEAVILY featured in her music. I assume that's a brand decision to keep the focus on the product.
 
Joe Mac said:
Yeah I would totally see an attempt to stand behind a lyric like that as free expression as the equivalent of unfunny old white men comics standing behind racist and misogynistic stereotype jokes under the same auspices.
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in a way it would almost be worse rather than an equivalent. we expect the crusty old white dudes to justify the use of words, rather Beyonce seems to preach positivity and inclusiveness and would be very out of character to not change something deemed hurtful.
 
Hemotep said:
Thus the "quotes," although they did call it a scotch at Morimoto's where I had it. I'm pretty picky with scotch though. Some of the leathery ones really don't do it for me.
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It’s funny with scotch I love peaty and Smokey but with Irish I really don’t, I prefer it be really smooth with almost sweet notes. I’m really into Yellow Spot and Lagavulin 16 right now.
 
Hemotep said:
There's a great Simpson's episode called The Book Job about this.
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Glass art is really big out in the Pacific Northwest and one of the most famous names in glass art is Dale Chiluly. But Chiluly hasn’t actually blown glass since the late 70s (he hurt his shoulder in a body surfing accident). Nowadays, Chiluly comes up with the concept and oversees the design but his apprentices are actually constructing the pieces.

Also, while that Simpsons episode is good. Calling any episodes beyond season 20 great is a bit of a stretch.
 
There are a lot of areas where we take a single person as representative for what’s really a collaborative effort. Politicians, artists within most all media, business magnates; I don’t think it’s a purely American phenomenon, but it’s particularly American to focus on the individual rather than the collaborative, communal effort behind them.
 
It’s definitely upsetting that we live in a society for which an artist that goes from “starving” to being able feed themselves and their group becomes a sell out. The main reason many artists get to tell their story is because of brands and labels. Some of them have nefarious motives, but man, it’s gotta be exhausting policing every single thing that’s culturally relevant.
 
Bull Shannon said:
There are a lot of areas where we take a single person as representative for what’s really a collaborative effort.
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This reminds me of a class I took on Philosophy of Science. And that's one question (among many) that philosophy asks regarding discovery and how we tend to attribute certain scientific breakthroughs to celebrated individuals, as if they labored in a vacuum.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
Glass art is really big out in the Pacific Northwest and one of the most famous names in glass art is Dale Chiluly. But Chiluly hasn’t actually blown glass since the late 70s (he hurt his shoulder in a body surfing accident). Nowadays, Chiluly comes up with the concept and oversees the design but his apprentices are actually constructing the pieces.

Also, while that Simpsons episode is good. Calling any episodes beyond season 20 great is a bit of a stretch.
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There are two or three I'd call great from later seasons. Maybe a stretch for that one. But the Boyhood episode is an all-time imo.
 
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