Neverending Covid-19 Coronavirus

Jan said:
That will probably be important to end lockdowns ans to see how wide-spread covid-19 is in the Population. German is riding to rampingg up a cross-population study Screening 100.000s for antibodies.
Click to expand...

Yes, won't tell you that you've got it, just that you've had it. So if you are hospital staff who have symptoms and need to know whether you should be isolating this test is no good.
 
Captainfog said:
Yes, won't tell you that you've got it, just that you've had it. So if you are hospital staff who have symptoms and need to know whether you should be isolating this test is no good.
Click to expand...
I think if you take this test and it says you've had it, you'd want to isolate for 14 days just in case you're not exhibiting symptoms and still have it. And after that 14 day period you'd be in the clear. However, the one thing that is unclear though, is even if you've had it, could you still carry the virus and give it to other people? So social distancing will still needed to be followed for some time.
 
wokeupnew said:
I think if you take this test and it says you've had it, you'd want to isolate for 14 days just in case you're not exhibiting symptoms and still have it. And after that 14 day period you'd be in the clear. However, the one thing that is unclear though, is even if you've had it, could you still carry the virus and give it to other people? So social distancing will still needed to be followed for some time.
Click to expand...

If you're symptom free and have antibodies, you are not spreading it anymore.

EDIT: small caveat (maybe what you're alluding to) - say you've caught it, have no symptoms and are still fighting it off. You may be developing detectable antibodies. But a PCR test would also be positive because you have virus.
 
Last edited:
Chucktshoes said:
I use COVID-19 because it is the accepted and official name for it. On the other hand I don’t discount information or articles about it because somebody chooses a call if the Wuhan virus.


I am more concerned at the damage caused by unnecessary politicization and virtue signaling surrounding the name used to refer to it. Remember, it was only a month ago that politicians in New York, San Francisco and other places were encouraging people to come out to Chinatowns in major cities to attend lunar new year festivals. I can’t even guess how many new infections resulted from that cluster fuck of a virtue signal. So I don’t care what people call it, I just wanna know what information you have about it.
Click to expand...

About the naming issues. First a little Bit of nitpicking COVID-19 is the disease ( like AIDS to the HIVirus), the Virus is officially called SARS-COV-2.

Alas, when it was first identified it entered tue database as WH-Human-1 coronavirus (WHCV) where WH Stands for Wuhan , another scientifically used Name was wuhan coronavirus, so naming it this in an article may not automatically disqualify the article. ( in this Case there might be other reasons that do).
The naming in this case is probably not due to direct chinese influence in the who, but because WHO changed their best Practice for official Namens in 2015 because passt names where seem to make matters worse by stigmatizing nations or ethnicities.

Terms that should be avoided in disease names include geographic locations (e.g. Middle East Respiratory Syndrome, Spanish Flu, Rift Valley fever), people’s names (e.g. Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, Chagas disease), species of animal or food (e.g. swine flu, bird flu, monkey pox), cultural, population, industry or occupational references (e.g. legionnaires), and terms that incite undue fear (e.g. unknown, fatal, epidemic
Click to expand...
See WHO | WHO issues best practices for naming new human infectious diseases
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
The whole “virtue signaling” thing bothers me, I get that some on the left like to weaponize this type of stuff (as does the right; unfortunately people of all ideologies use shit like this to score cheap political points) but if some folks are offended by it (and as you stated who fucking cares we have much bigger fish to fry) why not just choose the inoffensive option.
Click to expand...


Saying Chinese Flu or Wu Han virus is virtue signaling.
 
Captainfog said:
Yes, won't tell you that you've got it, just that you've had it. So if you are hospital staff who have symptoms and need to know whether you should be isolating this test is no good.
Click to expand...
Thats true, but if someone tests negative or are cured and have had it (shown by the antibody tests) they could be sent back to work pretty safely. Also with a complete unknown number of asymptomatic and untested people antibody Tests will be the only decent strategy to get statistics on the spread.
Plus, reading Interviews with a Couple of Different epidemogolists recently i do not think the concept of herd immunology is dead. Many think we still need it to return to normal if we dont want to wait for vaccines. There are just not many left who think it is a good idea to go there as fast as Johnson wanted to go there. Sweden is still sticking to a similar approach, though.
 
Last edited:
PCR test variants being used currently: detect the genetic material of the virus itself, namely it's RNA. So they detect whether you had virus RNA in your throat at the specific time the swab was taken. PCR takes a while because you have to (1) isolate the genetic material from the sample; (2) transform it to cDNA and the (3) do the PCR amplification reaction. A way to detect the RNA directly without transformation to cDNA and amplification (basically not using PCR at all) would be way faster and I'm sure people are working on this. EDIT: if you recovered, the virus is gone from the body and would be undetectable with this test - so this test cannot distinguish between people who never had COVID and those that have recovered from it. EDIT2: i misspoke above - much faster tests are being developed but they will likely still involve amplification.

Antibody test: detect whether you have antibody against SARS-COV-2 in your blood. That means your body has been in contact with SARS-COV-2 some time in the past (at this point there is no knowledge on how long those antibodies remain but probably at least a year based on other coronavirus, but it could be more). If you have anti-SARSCOV2 antibodies, you are immune to the virus and cannot spread it. Detecting an antibody is fast, kind of like a pregnancy test.

The ideal test: does both the RNA detection + antibody detection at the same time, so you have all the info you need to make a call.
 
Last edited:
Turbo said:
PCR test variants being used currently: detect the genetic material of the virus itself, namely it's RNA. So they detect whether you had virus RNA in your throat at the specific time the swab was taken. PCR takes a while because you have to (1) isolate the genetic material from the sample; (2) transform it to cDNA and the (3) do the PCR amplification reaction. A way to detect the RNA directly without transformation to cDNA and amplification (basically not using PCR at all) would be way faster and I'm sure people are working on this. EDIT: if you recovered, the virus is gone from the body and would be undetectable with this test - so this test cannot distinguish between people who never had COVID and those that have recovered from it.

Antibody test: detect whether you have antibody against SARS-COV-2 in your blood. That means your body has been in contact with SARS-COV-2 some time in the past (at this point there is no knowledge on how long those antibodies remain but probably at least a year based on other coronavirus, but it could be more). If you have anti-SARSCOV2 antibodies, you are immune to the virus and cannot spread it. Detecting an antibody is fast, kind of like a pregnancy test.

The ideal test: does both the RNA detection + antibody detection at the same time, so you have all the info you need to make a call.
Click to expand...
The polymerase chain reaction (PCR) was a nobel prize winning gigantic leap forward in molecular biology. Making a "faster way" to detect RNA is a pie in the sky idea.
 
Captainfog said:
Things aren't going back to the way they were in a hurry.

View attachment 39135
Click to expand...


This is 6.6 mil this week....not including the 3.3 from last week, total is near 10 mil that have filed for unemployment in the last 2 weeks....there's more out there that couldn't get through....or don't qualify.

www.npr.org

Staggering: Record 10 Million File For Unemployment In 2 Weeks

The staggering number of people claiming jobless benefits set a new record for the second week in a row. Much of the country has been ordered to stay at home, bringing the economy to a lurching halt.
www.npr.org www.npr.org
 
Ed Selley said:
Ignoring the nomenclature for a moment, it is generally presumed that this global event has its origin point in culinary practises- both in terms of what is being eaten and what it is being prepared near- that have now largely been eliminated almost everywhere else. I'll be candid- I don't want any well meaning squeamishness over blame to get in the way of pressure to knock this on the head. Not least because I don't want to do this any more than once in my life and because that pressure is working.
Click to expand...
But, at the moment it is just that, a presumption. I'll quote the end of article you linked:

Scientists and researchers are still no closer to finding out what the source of the virus is and how it could have spread to humans.
Click to expand...

It is true bat is a suspect origin. It is true a seafood market is suspected to be an origin point. However, they do not have actual evidence that this is true that I have seen. If you have a link to a scientific paper that says otherwise, please share it, I would very much like to read it.

I think what you said, and that article, comes at least very close to judging cultures different from one's own negatively for eating non-domesticated animals. Plenty of people in the USA eat "strange" wild game and I don't see how that's any different than if someone is eating a bat in China.
 
Last edited:
gouis said:
The polymerase chain reaction (PCR) was a nobel prize winning gigantic leap forward in molecular biology. Making a "faster way" to detect RNA is a pie in the sky idea.
Click to expand...

There is already a 5 min test developed by ABBOT. But yeah, it still involves an amplification step.

Problem with it is it uses rare proprietary equipment.

time.com

New Coronavirus Test Provides Results In As Little As 5 Minutes

Abbott’s portable test is aimed at ramping up testing at doctor’s offices, urgent care centers and small hospitals
time.com time.com
 
Talked to a friend who works for United Healthcare Insurance and he stated that doctors in NY and possibly Nationwide will lobby for greater decision making authority when it comes who to treat and who to turn away. Someone who has cancer and covid-19 has a far lesser chance of survival so they don't want to treat them when they could provide the much needed ventilators for someone who has a higher chance of survival.
 
dhodo said:
I think what you said, and that article comes at least very close to judging cultures different from one's own negatively for eating non-domesticated animals. Plenty of people in the USA eat "strange" wild game and I don't see how that's any different than if someone is eating a bat in China.
Click to expand...

There's a degree of Occam's razor to the cause in so far as the means by which the likely vector and its new host come into contact are not easily explained by any other means.

This also pretty much comes back to the basic tenet of do no harm. Ultimately, with the standard caveats about some of the creatures in question being endangered, I'm not that bothered what is being eaten. If the process by which they are being prepared and eaten leads to events like this, I will continue to voice a strong desire to outlaw those processes. If people wish to eat animal x, y or z, they'll need to do so from locations that can prepare them in a fashion that eliminates the risk. It's not a big ask in the context of events we're experiencing.

It's funny you mention game because there's precedent for this exact process in action. Where I grew up in Hampshire (the original one, in the UK), it was traditional practise to hang shot pheasant with a hook though the eye sockets. The bird was adjudged to have hung long enough when maggots ate through the neck and the bird fell to the floor. As food standards lurched into life in the sixties and seventies, it was found that a carcass hung for this long harboured bacteria that could still be an issue after cooking- and there were huge issues for kitchen contamination. The practise was banned and there was- initially at least- an outcry; Pheasant didn't taste 'right' unless it had been left that long, they were messing with tradition etc etc. Now, it's fair to say that nobody gives a fuck. Pheasant is still widely consumed and people don't get sick.
 
Ed Selley said:
There's a degree of Occam's razor to the cause in so far as the means by which the likely vector and its new host come into contact are not easily explained by any other means.

This also pretty much comes back to the basic tenet of do no harm. Ultimately, with the standard caveats about some of the creatures in question being endangered, I'm not that bothered what is being eaten. If the process by which they are being prepared and eaten leads to events like this, I will continue to voice a strong desire to outlaw those processes. If people wish to eat animal x, y or z, they'll need to do so from locations that can prepare them in a fashion that eliminates the risk. It's not a big ask in the context of events we're experiencing.

It's funny you mention game because there's precedent for this exact process in action. Where I grew up in Hampshire (the original one, in the UK), it was traditional practise to hang shot pheasant with a hook though the eye sockets. The bird was adjudged to have hung long enough when maggots ate through the neck and the bird fell to the floor. As food standards lurched into life in the sixties and seventies, it was found that a carcass hung for this long harboured bacteria that could still be an issue after cooking- and there were huge issues for kitchen contamination. The practise was banned and there was- initially at least- an outcry; Pheasant didn't taste 'right' unless it had been left that long, they were messing with tradition etc etc. Now, it's fair to say that nobody gives a fuck. Pheasant is still widely consumed and people don't get sick.
Click to expand...

While in the US, cervids (deer family) have come down with Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD). It’s an affliction similar to Bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) aka Mad Cow Disease. While there has been zero cases of cervid to human transmission, wildlife resource agencies around the country have instituted testing programs to ensure that CWD positive animals are not consumed. These proactive measures are taken to ensure that the game meat consumed is safe for human consumption.

Sometimes it doesn’t matter if a practice is an accepted cultural tradition. If it can be demonstrated that it poses a significant health risk to the population, it should be judged for the danger it poses and stopped.
 
Ed Selley said:
There's a degree of Occam's razor to the cause in so far as the means by which the likely vector and its new host come into contact are not easily explained by any other means.

This also pretty much comes back to the basic tenet of do no harm. Ultimately, with the standard caveats about some of the creatures in question being endangered, I'm not that bothered what is being eaten. If the process by which they are being prepared and eaten leads to events like this, I will continue to voice a strong desire to outlaw those processes. If people wish to eat animal x, y or z, they'll need to do so from locations that can prepare them in a fashion that eliminates the risk. It's not a big ask in the context of events we're experiencing.

It's funny you mention game because there's precedent for this exact process in action. Where I grew up in Hampshire (the original one, in the UK), it was traditional practise to hang shot pheasant with a hook though the eye sockets. The bird was adjudged to have hung long enough when maggots ate through the neck and the bird fell to the floor. As food standards lurched into life in the sixties and seventies, it was found that a carcass hung for this long harboured bacteria that could still be an issue after cooking- and there were huge issues for kitchen contamination. The practise was banned and there was- initially at least- an outcry; Pheasant didn't taste 'right' unless it had been left that long, they were messing with tradition etc etc. Now, it's fair to say that nobody gives a fuck. Pheasant is still widely consumed and people don't get sick.
Click to expand...
I don't disagree with advocating for better practices and cleanliness in meat preparation and markets. Obviously there is a lot of value there.

What I brought up I believe stands independent of that and comes a lot closer to someone with nothing to do with that advocation and everything to do with enforcing their bias against an entire country/region as backwards dirty lesser thans and blaming this terrible catastrophe on them and anyone of the same race.
 
Chucktshoes said:
While in the US, cervids (deer family) have come down with Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD). It’s an affliction similar to Bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) aka Mad Cow Disease. While there has been zero cases of cervid to human transmission, wildlife resource agencies around the country have instituted testing programs to ensure that CWD positive animals are not consumed. These proactive measures are taken to ensure that the game meat consumed is safe for human consumption.

Sometimes it doesn’t matter if a practice is an accepted cultural tradition. If it can be demonstrated that it poses a significant health risk to the population, it should be judged for the danger it poses and stopped.
Click to expand...
Lots of risks with wild game.

Brucella, Trichinella, Salmonella, Bubonic Plague, Tularemia, TB, maybe Chagas etc.

Most fine if cooked I think, but not everyone is as careful as necessary. Some can be transmitted when you are skinning them if you don't use gloves.

Not to mention the risk of getting plague from your housecat.

Edit: just to clarify I don't mean eating the housecat
 
dhodo said:
Lots of risks with wild game.

Brucella, Trichinella, Salmonella, Bubonic Plague, Tularemia, TB, maybe Chagas etc.

Most fine if cooked I think, but not everyone is as careful as necessary. Some can be transmitted when you are skinning them if you don't use gloves.

Not to mention the risk of getting plague from your housecat.

Edit: just to clarify I don't mean eating the housecat
Click to expand...
Also, that brain parasite from your cats poo that makes you more likely to engage in risky behavior.

www.usatoday.com

Cat poop parasite may alter human brains to reduce fear, study finds

The parasite, called Toxoplasma gondii, appears to alter rodent behavior. It may work similarly for humans, a University of Colorado study found.
www.usatoday.com

Not gonna lie I might have this and I’m really pretty okay with it. Completely unrelated; anybody wanna swing by and stand a couple feet apart while we practice juggling knifes after sniffing some modeling glue?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top