Nee Lewman
बैस्टर्ड
Yeah, especially when CNN set that tone from the outset and directly asked her if she thought he was a facist.
Political Discussion
- Thread starter David A.
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Nee Lewman
बैस्टर्ड
Undecided voters are liars or idiots.
TenderLovingKiller®
Well-Known Member
I disagree. Having power matters, if Trump costs the GOP another election they are gonna have to change their approach. They have gone as far to the Right as they can go. Unless they want to become more and more irrelevant, essentially an extremist opposition party they will have to move back to the middle. If that’s what they want to be there a relevant third party will show that will become the more center right party. Maybe that ends up being the Dems and another party forms to the Left of the Dems. Maybe the Dems schism and the the GOP splits from MAGA forming other options. The point being is the parties aren’t static their ideals and identity have shifted a lot over the countries history. If Trump loses this time the GOP will only have controlled the White House once over the last 5 election cycles. That would spur change.
NPR just touched on this topic and explained it to me better.
Undecided voters want to know how each candidate is going to do everything they said, but neither candidate is providing it. So, when not getting the information they want, they decide to vote for the devil they know verses the devil they don't know. And Trump they know. It doesn't matter that they don't like either candidate. It's just that Trump is the devil they already know and Harris is the unknown.
Voters are not happy, but they are not looking towards the past, but only to the future. And who represents the best chance for change in their favor.
Joe Mac
Well-Known Member
I disagree. I think the global politik is in a worrying rightward spiral. Money is too concentrated in too few and they’re able to exercise that power way more effectively than in any point in the last 100 years because technological change is outpacing our ability to consider its ethical implications and effectively legislate. Triump is bad, but he’s a nasty symptom of the cancer,’not the cancer itself. I’m increasingly worried that the only way this can end is like the 30s and 40s after which we will have reset.
‘Take Back the States’: The Far-Right Sheriffs Ready to Disrupt the Election — WIRED
Constitutional Sheriffs are duly elected lawmen who believe they answer only to God. They’ve spent the last six months preparing to stop a “stolen” election—by any means necessary.
apple.news
mdmost
Well-Known Member
Not looking at the past or willfully ignorant of the past under Trump? There's nothing Trump has said about the future that should make any undecided think he's the better choice. They're just mad about inflation and the cost of things, most of which is not the control of the president. Everything has gone up and companies are fine with that because they are making a ton of money because people don't push back on it enough. Target is dropping prices because their sales have slipped. Chipotle won't because their sales have not slipped. Grocery stores have taken full advantage of the new normal. Trump has no outline of how to drop prices other than empty rhetoric and fear mongering. I heard an NPR report this morning about how Kamala has laid out tons of policies but they aren't catching on because Dem = bad for the economy, Republican = good for the economy. It's all pretty maddening because Trump isn't going to do anything for the economy except continue to let business have their way and give tax breaks. The only people who will continue to benefit are the elite and Republicans have done a good job of making this the narrative
TenderLovingKiller®
Well-Known Member
World War? Maybe, but if we are talking about this election and if there’s gonna be World War, I would rather The US be part of Allied forces as opposed to cozying up with the Fascists.
Joe Mac
Well-Known Member
I don’t see there being an equivalent of the Aliies tbh. Although I suppose Churchill historically was an utter bastard before WW2 so who knows. If not war then maybe some form of major lurch to the right, there being major implications and it causing a correction. I don’t know what world war looks like in the 21st century or if it’s comparable to the early and mid 20th century. I’m certainly concerned with the long leash Isreal is being given by all sides leading to a conflict with Iran which could see that merge into the Russia and Ukraine thing and then with China having such an authoritarian government even by their standards right now.
This isn’t just America btw. Labour has a historic majority in Britain and is pissing it away with austerity measures the Tories would be proud of.
Nee Lewman
बैस्टर्ड
The guy who did everything but work for them his first term is not the guy working in their favor. So I reiterate undecided voters are either liars (they have decided but want the platform it gives them) or dumb (I’m gonna vote for Trump because I don’t know what she is despite the fact that I know that this guy will do nothing but the worst most self serving things he has proposed)
I’d also say, if they really cared about what NPR is saying, they only have to go to the candidate’s websites. Harris’s is very well thought out and explanatory. Trump’s is bullet points.
mdmost
Well-Known Member
I think what also annoys me is when I hear the reason people will vote for Trump is "he's a businessman". Okay, so who do you think he will work for? You and the middle class or businesses and the wealthy? Do you think he's going to do anything about home ownership? Do you think he's going to make your kid's college more affordable? He's not a businessman. He's a showman. He's a brand. That's it. Sadly, that stupid shit works on people because people are simple creatures. Like the guy in the Bronx who complained that his electric bill for his barber shop was $11,000. Yeah, Con Edison said he was incorrectly billed and they were taking care of it. But somehow that's Biden fault. People are bitching about gas prices and comparing it to the pandemic when....no one was driving so prices fell.
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Nee Lewman
बैस्टर्ड
A failed businessman who would be wealthier today if he left his estate in the bank collecting interest.
ranbalam
Well-Known Member
Great post, albeit a worrying angle, and it's making me think a bit differently about this being just a Trump problem.
I read more than I post here, and I truly appreciate so many of this thread's thoughtful and intelligent posts.
NPR was just talking about how they think the outcome of the election will be Harris winning, Republicans winning the Senate and the democrats potentially taking back the majority in the house.
They are predicting that if the Democrats do in fact win the house, they will nominate people to fill positions, but the senate will not approve any nomination.
Meaning that open appointed position, particularly judges, will not be filled and stonewalled until the Republicans have the power to fill the seats.
We will still be stuck in this doom and gloom and our judicial system will continue to be stacked towards the right for the foreseeable future.
They are predicting that if the Democrats do in fact win the house, they will nominate people to fill positions, but the senate will not approve any nomination.
Meaning that open appointed position, particularly judges, will not be filled and stonewalled until the Republicans have the power to fill the seats.
We will still be stuck in this doom and gloom and our judicial system will continue to be stacked towards the right for the foreseeable future.
mdmost
Well-Known Member
I think the internals are such that Democrats know Ted Cruz is ripe to be upset in Texas. That's why Kamala is coming to Houston on Friday. Harris County alone could deliver the senate seat for the Democrats. People just need to get out and vote. I think even some Republicans are just tired of Ted Cruz. So maybe one Dem conversion could help. The state will still go for Trump but I could definitely see some crossing over to vote out Ted Cruz. WV and WY seem lost but maybe there's hope left if Texas can change.
Nee Lewman
बैस्टर्ड
I honestly think there are four kinds of people voting for Trump and unfortunately, it is probably a greater than half portion of the country.
1. The wealthy and powerful who are only driven by wealth and power. (Be it Musk at the top or Vance who merely desires these things)
2. Racist/misogynistic/otherwise hate driven biased people.
3. Libertarian/tea party want to burn it to the ground (not even necessarily to build it back up) lunatics
4. Truly uniformed/highly gullible people who just fall in line with whatever their bubble is/says.
1. The wealthy and powerful who are only driven by wealth and power. (Be it Musk at the top or Vance who merely desires these things)
2. Racist/misogynistic/otherwise hate driven biased people.
3. Libertarian/tea party want to burn it to the ground (not even necessarily to build it back up) lunatics
4. Truly uniformed/highly gullible people who just fall in line with whatever their bubble is/says.
TenderLovingKiller®
Well-Known Member
WV and MT I think you mean and I wouldn’t count out Tester either, he has traveled down this path a few times and managed to pull it out.
Hemotep
Well-Known Member
That third bucket is much larger than I think a lot of people realize and includes a lot of formerly solid Dems who post-Obama have drifted toward an embrace of that accelerationist discourse to a troubling degree.
mdmost
Well-Known Member
Maybe but I also feel there are a ton of Republicans who are sick of the Trump era and what it has created. January 6 still plays for those people. Either they won't vote for him or they just won't vote. I think Kamala is smart to do her closing argument at the National Mall. I still think she wins PA and the early vote returns look good. Georgia I think is a real toss up but black voters won the day in 2020 and I believe they'll vote in even higher numbers this time. Arizona and Nevada probably swing back to Republican because of post-Covid demographic changes. I don't have any faith in North Carolina changing.
Joe Mac
Well-Known Member
I think there’s also a clear line between the extremes of wealth and poverty and the desperation of the later and the feeling that there’s needs to be a major major change and shooting for something radically different because the system has failed them. It’s also the least educated cohort. Of course they’re being played by the wealthy but isn’t that always the story?