Political Discussion

RenegadeMonster said:
I know everyone is still very much in the guessing game when trying to explain what went wrong and why Harris did not win.

But the fact that more people are saying the's because the current Democratic Party is too far left and tainted by progressives who are pushing ideas that are deeply unpopular for the majority of Americans than the number of people saying the Democratic Party is too far center / center right and has nothing to run on other than "not Trump" is concerning.

I'm not talking about Mega people saying this. But people within the current establishment that is the Democratic Party.

This leads me to believe that the party is dead if it continues down this path and needs to be replaced by a new party. Or have a serious wakeup call which I don't believe they got, not from this election anyways.
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Hot take prognosticators immediately following an election loss are almost always wrong. The biggest change for the Dems in the next election (if we are lucky enough to have another election), it will be that Trump won’t be running. The Dems have been the Anti-Trump party for 3 election cycles now. They will have to figure out a way to inspire voters beyond the fact that they are outraged by Trump.

I am sure the MAGA party will push a “Trump 2.0” but Trumps appeal defies expectations. I do not see that being as effective for the GOP either but we shall see. 4 years is practically a lifetime.
 
Also, to think that universal healthcare is considered radical left and deeply unpopular for the majority of Americans.

How can this be when it benefits everyone more than the current system?

And it's not a radical left idea. The United States is the only Western Democracy that doesn't have it!

I know propaganda and fear is what has driven a lot of people to believe universal healthcare is bad. How can we actually change that perception? And could Trump blowing up Obamacare help push people in that direction if it fails or makes healthcare out of reach for so many due to costs?
 
Hemotep said:
Let me start by saying that I complete understand why you feel this way and want to do this. So please don't take this as an attack, but as something I hope you will think about and encourage others like you to think about.

Being able to avoid politics and focus on things that make you happy is the ultimate privilege of white straight men in a fascist reality. Trump isn't coming after you. Your life can go on much as normal because you look like them. But for all the people who have other identities, they can't just ignore politics and go on living their life. This is their life! They are being targeted and white straight male allies being able to hide out in their own lives when things get bad is one reason why minorities often can't trust us as allies. This is when we need to be loud and engaged more than ever. We need to use our privilege to speak out and up for those who are in danger now. Please don't hide on the sidelines. Stay engaged and stay enraged. Peoples lives will depend on it even if it's just so that they know that they aren't alone.
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I completely agree but I need to practice some self care before I am going to be able to effectively support others. Right now I pretty much have zero faith in humanity outside of friends and family. I need to restore that a bit. I am a fairly empathetic and optimistic person usually. I need to restore that. I am not typically a person that has a tough time staying present and not worrying about stuff I have no control over but the last Trump Presidency changed that a bit. I hope to find a happy medium where I only focus on the bad stuff that is happening in the moment versus worrying about what happened in the past or what might happen in the future.

Willie has a good handle on this…
 
RenegadeMonster said:
Also, to think that universal healthcare is considered radical left and deeply unpopular for the majority of Americans.

How can this be when it benefits everyone more than the current system?

And it's not a radical left idea. The United States is the only Western Democracy that doesn't have it!

I know propaganda and fear is what has driven a lot of people to believe universal healthcare is bad. How can we actually change that perception? And could Trump blowing up Obamacare help push people in that direction if it fails or makes healthcare out of reach for so many due to costs?
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As someone that the states would consider to be a revolutionary Communist (I’m not) that’s a wonderful concept and idea that came from some good solid hard left working class socialists. It is radical left. It doesn’t mean it’s not the correct course of action.
 
Yeah, we’re all gonna process this differently. I’ll be active here (this thread) until Inauguration Day. I’ll need to see how the first 100 days plays out to know what course I chart moving forward. I’ll figure out some way to resist and help folks but it will be a very different engagement depending on how clearly we will be swinging to the right vs more of the status quo just with crazy people talking about it in leadership.

I recommend watching this for various reasons but mostly for the way she talks about Trump:


Engagement will be important no matter how this shakes out.

@Hemotep i hear you loud and clear, but I’m not so sure who they are coming after because collateral damage doesn’t seem to matter to them. Just look at what they did to Springfield and Aurora. The harm they did in those communities really knows no bounds and they’ve already admitted some people who shouldn’t be deported will.

How much was rhetoric to get in power by distracting everyone from the issues? I don’t know.

And unpopular take right now, I’m also engaged with the Bible again, looking for meaning. Just because the majority of people who wield the book like a weapon doesn’t negate the power, wisdom and inspiration contained within.
 
Nee Lewman said:
Yeah, we’re all gonna process this differently. I’ll be active here (this thread) until Inauguration Day. I’ll need to see how the first 100 days plays out to know what course I chart moving forward. I’ll figure out some way to resist and help folks but it will be a very different engagement depending on how clearly we will be swinging to the right vs more of the status quo just with crazy people talking about it in leadership.

I recommend watching this for various reasons but mostly for the way she talks about Trump:


Engagement will be important no matter how this shakes out.

@Hemotep i hear you loud and clear, but I’m not so sure who they are coming after because collateral damage doesn’t seem to matter to them. Just look at what they did to Springfield and Aurora. The harm they did in those communities really knows no bounds and they’ve already admitted some people who shouldn’t be deported will.

How much was rhetoric to get in power by distracting everyone from the issues? I don’t know.

And unpopular take right now, I’m also engaged with the Bible again, looking for meaning. Just because the majority of people who wield the book like a weapon doesn’t negate the power, wisdom and inspiration contained within.
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I think the two groups that they are coming after on day one are transgendered people and migrants. The plan is to make all gender affirming care illegal, allow people who've had it done to sue the doctors who did it, and make it impossible for trans folks to be who they are. Suicide is already high in this community and it will spike.

The plan for migrants is to round them up and deport them. Up to mobilizing the national guard and the military to go door to door to do so. It sounds impossible, but that doesn't mean that they won't trample the laws to do it. Miller has also said that they will immediately begin a denaturalization process to revoke citizenship given to children of migrants who were born in the country.

This is the start. More will follow, but these folks are living in fear now. The trans people in my life are terrified. They've essentially lost their human rights. A group of Latina maintenance and janitorial staff came by my office on Wednesday and we're crying, they asked me if I thought they could hide or if they should try to leave the US before January so that they don't end up in a detention center.
 
Hemotep said:
I think the two groups that they are coming after on day one are transgendered people and migrants. The plan is to make all gender affirming care illegal, allow people who've had it done to sue the doctors who did it, and make it impossible for trans folks to be who they are. Suicide is already high in this community and it will spike.

The plan for migrants is to round them up and deport them. Up to mobilizing the national guard and the military to go door to door to do so. It sounds impossible, but that doesn't mean that they won't trample the laws to do it. Miller has also said that they will immediately begin a denaturalization process to revoke citizenship given to children of migrants who were born in the country.

This is the start. More will follow, but these folks are living in fear now. The trans people in my life are terrified. They've essentially lost their human rights. A group of Latina maintenance and janitorial staff came by my office on Wednesday and we're crying, they asked me if I thought they could hide or if they should try to leave the US before January so that they don't end up in a detention center.
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I understand who they are targeting. I’m just saying that being white and male might not be the shield you would think it is. The breakdown of law and order in these type of situations has caused many a heinous thing to happen even in this very country. Just because it is more like to happen to trans (who are hard to identify by sight only) and folks who have different colored skin doesn’t mean a bunch of resistors won’t be taken down in the process and the reaction will be “oh well.” Which we know because they’ve already done it - see Springfield and Aurora - and they’ve said they will. Musk said it’s gonna get bad, there’s no reason not to take him at his word.
 
Twentytwo said:
I may the only person on here but I don't mine paying taxes. I just see them as collective good type of thing. I certainly think the rich should pay more but it is not something I lose sleep over.
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I don’t mind paying taxes but often times it’s hard to even see what your tax dollars go toward besides the military. In other countries you get tangible benefits like healthcare, or a year of maternity leave, etc. I’m not even entirely sure what my tax dollars go towards. Our roads are shitty. Schools are overcrowded. Health care is expensive and I could never afford a good plan as a small business owner if my wife’s job didn’t cover our family.
 
RenegadeMonster said:
Who are these college kids who bet $10,000 on Trump winning the election?

Anyways, long story short. In the age of online sports betting and fantasy football, betting on elections was extremely enticing for young males. Especially those who are Trump supporters.

The interview NBC had with one of that said he didn't know of a single of his girl friends who bet on the election, but all his guy friends did. He said every guy he knows was betting on the election.
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What I am gathering from my 15 y/o is that many high schoolers have betting apps on their phones—I am not sure of the legal age here, but he’s in a special classroom with a mix of grades including seniors, and given their disabilities, they could be a couple years older than the regular senior or junior (for instance my son is 15 and is in his freshman year). I think it aligns well with the bros that are treating the stock market like a betting game as well. It’s all part of the alpha-male dialogue that has gripped young men. Go to the gym, open a stock account, and then once you are ripped and rich, you will be deserving of respect.

I have been reading about this phenomenon recently and someone really hit the nail on the head when they said that women have been targeted in this way for decades in order to sell us crap. If we believe that if we just were the right dress size and we had the right clothes and we looked the right way, we would be deserving, that we could then “manifest” the life we wished. Corporate America realized that they were missing out on revenue by exploiting the insecurities of only half the population and started going after young men. The most important and effective part of this strategy was to isolate them from others. Then feed them a doctrine of self improvement that focused on the superficial—the same thing that they have been doing to young women for years. This is accelerated by the internet because if someone doesn’t like something that someone else says, it’s easy to terminate the conversation and never deal with that person again. There is no physical relationship and thus, there maintains the illusion of no physical loss.

It is very insidious and while many speculate that this was some concerted effort, I think that it sprung up, possibly by accident, and has been exploited for power. I also think that this is like keeping a wild animal as a pet, the people who are using these young men to cull power will eventually be bitten by them, and they will absolutely deserve it.
ranbalam said:
Moving forward, I plan to have some civil conversations with certain Trumpers I know. Like, what do you expect within his first year? And by mid-term? I am genuinely curious as to what they expect to gain via their beloved leader's victory.
A bunch of my workers are already excited about no taxes on their overtime pay, and yet I am not so sure that will happen.

As the dust (and my emotional state) settles It's more clear to me now why Harris lost, and it certainly isn't about one thing.
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Isn’t Trump trying to get rid of overtime pay rules?
 
Sonicpharmacist said:
I’m really struggling today. Struggling to work along side my MAGA coworkers. Struggling to not disown my dad. Struggling for work for a manager who voted to hurt some of her nonbinary employees. How can I continue to have relationships with people who voted for someone who will actively hurt people I know and love?

I just want to curl up in a ball.
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Same. Except that I am very lucky to have parents who are equally distraught. My dad is depressed as hell. My mom has gone into therapist mode (she was one) and is just telling us all to take it one day at a time.
 
Joe Mac said:
As someone that the states would consider to be a revolutionary Communist (I’m not) that’s a wonderful concept and idea that came from some good solid hard left working class socialists. It is radical left. It doesn’t mean it’s not the correct course of action.
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In Canada, universal health care wasn't implemented by the left. The left has never taken power since the federal union was established. It was passed by a centrist government in minority position with the support of our center-left party. Probably the ideal position here to have something like this pass, considering the current minority coalition formed of the same parties recently added a form of universal dental care.

It's also interesting that at this point, it would be a massively losing position were the Tories even think of repealing any form of universal health care.

But anyway, the US has a long long way to go to undo all the negative messaging on this.
 
Turbo said:
In Canada, universal health care wasn't implemented by the left. The left has never taken power since the federal union was established. It was passed by a centrist government in minority position with the support of our center-left party. Probably the ideal position here to have something like this pass, considering the current minority coalition formed of the same parties recently added a form of universal dental care.

It's also interesting that at this point, it would be a massively losing position were the Tories even think of repealing any form of universal health care.

But anyway, the US has a long long way to go to undo all the negative messaging on this.
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Oh yes it’s become so overwhelming popular now that as much as the Tories hate it and underfund and undermine it when in power they can’t get rid of it because it’d be such a massively unpopular move. I don’t think it takes away from the fact that it took the combination of the post war atmosphere and probably the most radically left and progressive government Britain has ever had to bring it into existence. It’s also massively costly and involves huge amounts of revenue raising, all of which are radical left ideas, even if centrists have come to support it. I think the NHS is the world’s third largest employer (behind the Chinese Army and the Indian Railwsys) which is quite something for a state employer in a union of nations with a population of just shy of 70 million.
 
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Nee Lewman said:
I understand who they are targeting. I’m just saying that being white and male might not be the shield you would think it is. The breakdown of law and order in these type of situations has caused many a heinous thing to happen even in this very country. Just because it is more like to happen to trans (who are hard to identify by sight only) and folks who have different colored skin doesn’t mean a bunch of resistors won’t be taken down in the process and the reaction will be “oh well.” Which we know because they’ve already done it - see Springfield and Aurora - and they’ve said they will. Musk said it’s gonna get bad, there’s no reason not to take him at his word.
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In the long run it likely won't be, but at the beginning it is. They aren't specifically targeting us yet. They certainly will if we resist. I've published enough things on Trump and am in a discipline that Desantis has made a cornerstone of targeting in Florida's higher education. And I plan on publishing more on him in the coming weeks and months. So I'm expecting it. But still, being white, straight, and male, I'll probably be the last one they go after among the undesirables.
 
Hemotep said:
In the long run it likely won't be, but at the beginning it is. They aren't specifically targeting us yet. They certainly will if we resist. I've published enough things on Trump and am in a discipline that Desantis has made a cornerstone of targeting in Florida's higher education. And I plan on publishing more on him in the coming weeks and months. So I'm expecting it. But still, being white, straight, and male, I'll probably be the last one they go after among the undesirables.
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I mean already having a target painted on your back is one thing. I’d be in a different headspace if I didn’t have the 3 yo. My oldest is half Filipino and looks more like her mom every day… I am sure she and i will have talks about what we will be doing to.
 
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