Political Discussion

[Teeeee]

On July 15, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) will begin dispensing monthly payments of $300 per child under 6 and $250 per child older than 6 to families who qualify. These benefits will be dispersed to families through direct deposit, paper check or debit card, every month on the 15th, or, if it is a weekend or a holiday, the closest available day to the 15th.

Child cash benefit will show up in parents’ bank accounts soon

“With two parents, two kids, that’s $7,200 in the pockets you’re getting to help take care of your family.”

thehill.com

Maybe I should cross post in the parenting thread.

This is honestly so incredible. I'm sure there are downsides, and I'm sure there will be no shortage of people telling us all about it. But can they all just shut the fuck up for a bit and recognize how this has the ability to be so positively impactful to so many?

 

[Chucktshoes]

Is this because the police went there to specifically confiscate his firearms rather than a suicide intervention?

Partially, yes. This article has a little more info on what happened at the time of the search. The officers performed the search and confiscated the firearms sans any pressing immediate need.
SCOTUS Rules Police Cannot Search Homes Without Warrants in the Name of 'Community Caretaking'

 

[Dtknuckles]

Partially, yes. This article has a little more info on what happened at the time of the search. The officers performed the search and confiscated the firearms sans any pressing immediate need.
SCOTUS Rules Police Cannot Search Homes Without Warrants in the Name of 'Community Caretaking'

So this was not someone calling into hotline with a gun to their head. Some one making an indirect threat or suicidal ideation.

 

[debianlinux]

On July 15, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) will begin dispensing monthly payments of $300 per child under 6 and $250 per child older than 6 to families who qualify. These benefits will be dispersed to families through direct deposit, paper check or debit card, every month on the 15th, or, if it is a weekend or a holiday, the closest available day to the 15th.

Child cash benefit will show up in parents’ bank accounts soon

“With two parents, two kids, that’s $7,200 in the pockets you’re getting to help take care of your family.”

thehill.com

Maybe I should cross post in the parenting thread.

We were really unsure what to do with kids this summer. We were looking at trying to scab together some summer camp for the enrichment and otherwise cheap out on a baby sitter who has some pretty shitty influencing kids in her house. Then I remembered this whole thing and now we're doing a pretty great, academically centered summer camp for the entire summer (still involves swimming, bowling, skating, etc.). Meanwhile mom and dad can continue to work without crazy schedule requirements. Pretty sure this is what thating is meant to do, right?

 

[Chucktshoes]

So this was not someone calling into hotline with a gun to their head. Some one making an indirect threat or suicidal ideation.

Correct. It was someone (unwisely) using a gun to make a hyperbolic statement (with no threat involved) in an argument with their spouse.

 

[Dtknuckles]

Correct. It was someone (unwisely) using a gun to make a hyperbolic statement (with no threat involved) in an argument with their spouse.

This is probably the type of thing mental health workers should get involved in.

 

[Dtknuckles]

We were really unsure what to do with kids this summer. We were looking at trying to scab together some summer camp for the enrichment and otherwise cheap out on a baby sitter who has some pretty shitty influencing kids in her house. Then I remembered this whole thing and now we're doing a pretty great, academically centered summer camp for the entire summer (still involves swimming, bowling, skating, etc.). Meanwhile mom and dad can continue to work without crazy schedule requirements. Pretty sure this is what thating is meant to do, right?

Yea I thought of the hippy nature home school enrichment I was thinking about sending my kid too when I saw this headline. They have summer camps.

 

[Chucktshoes]

This is probably the type of thing mental health workers should get involved in.

Which they were. The man agreed to be transported for an evaluation. It was at that point that officers returned to the residence to take his firearms.

If you want people to resist or avoid seeking help from mental health professionals, this is how you do that.

 

[Dtknuckles]

Which they were. The man agreed to be transported for an evaluation. It was at that point that officers returned to the residence to take his firearms.

If you want people to resist or avoid seeking help from mental health professionals, this is how you do that.

I’m not disagreeing with you, but there is a strange logic at work that would motivate a person to tolerate suffering because they were afraid to loose their firearms. Of course people do all sorts of things that seem strange to others.

 

[Chucktshoes]

I’m not disagreeing with you, but there is a strange logic at work that would motivate a person to tolerate suffering because they were afraid to loose their firearms. Of course people do all sorts of things that seem strange to others.

Suffering is the natural human condition. We seem to have forgotten that to our detriment and it’s a reason we are dying as a culture and society. Then our children and our children’s children will know what real suffering is like.

 

[Dtknuckles]

Say more about this?

I feel like this is one of those statements that potentially reveals the basis for opposing worldviews.

I do agree with this. It’s just part of what happens when you are living being. We can’t be satisfied all the time. Our existence combined with self awareness makes it so we understand that we have or have not reached our goals. The question is if we develop adaptive or maladaptive coping skills.

 

[debianlinux]

I also agree that suffering is the basis for everything we call progress. It manifests on every level. I never find myself seeking change until the suffering reaches sufficient proportions to move away from it. My lowest humanity is my preference for comfort. Finding ways to proactively and constructively "embrace the suck" so to speak makes me grow as a person and become a better part of my social fabric.

 

[Chucktshoes]

Say more about this?

I feel like this is one of those statements that potentially reveals the basis for opposing worldviews.

Look at the entirety of human history. Life for the average person has always been as Hobbes put it, “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short.” Even to this day that remains the state of being for much of the world’s population. The problem I see is that in the West we seem to have forgotten that. We have replaced knowledge of what is and the will to thrive with sense of entitlement and an inability to cope with the fact that the world we imagine in our heads isn’t reality.

 

[debianlinux]

Look at the entirety of human history. Life for the average person has always been as Hobbes put it, “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short.” Even to this day that remains the state of being for much of the world’s population. The problem I see is that in the West we seem to have forgotten that. We have replaced knowledge of what is and the will to thrive with sense of entitlement and an inability to cope with the fact that the world we imagine in our heads isn’t reality.

Couple this with repeat studies indicating happiness thrives in what we would call destitute conditions whereas here, where we have all the comforts, maladies of contentment abound.

 

[Joe Mac]

Look at the entirety of human history. Life for the average person has always been as Hobbes put it, “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short.” Even to this day that remains the state of being for much of the world’s population. The problem I see is that in the West we seem to have forgotten that. We have replaced knowledge of what is and the will to thrive with sense of entitlement and an inability to cope with the fact that the world we imagine in our heads isn’t reality.

I think that’s a radical missuse of that passage by Hobbes. It’s his description of the “state of nature” without governments, not necessarily a comment on the life of the ordinary man. Although in the 1651 it would probably be an understatement to describe the lives of the peasant class in such terms. That said like most men of his time and age his theories were not for the peasant class but those he’d deem worthy.

This is the full text of that passage where he describes the “state of nature” or life without government:

“In such condition, there is no place for industry; because the fruit thereof is uncertain: and consequently no culture of the earth; no navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by sea; no commodious building; no instruments of moving, and removing, such things as require much force; no knowledge of the face of the earth; no account of time; no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.”

That said I don’t necessarily disagree with you that suffering, on one level or another, is an inevitable part of the human condition. I was brought up Catholic though and man is suffering fetishised there!

 

[Chucktshoes]

I think that’s a radical missuse of that passage by Hobbes. It’s his description of the “state of nature” without governments, not necessarily a comment on the life of the ordinary man. Although in the 1651 it would probably be an understatement to describe the lives of the peasant class in such terms. That said like most men of his time and age his theories were not for the peasant class but those he’d deem worthy.

This is the full text of that passage where he describes the “state of nature” or life without government:

“In such condition, there is no place for industry; because the fruit thereof is uncertain: and consequently no culture of the earth; no navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by sea; no commodious building; no instruments of moving, and removing, such things as require much force; no knowledge of the face of the earth; no account of time; no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.”

That said I don’t necessarily disagree with you that suffering, on one level or another, is an inevitable part of the human condition. I was brought up Catholic though and man is suffering fetishised there!

I don’t really think it’s a misuse. While Hobbes was referring to the state of nature without governments, I believe the argument can well be made that most governments perpetuate this state of being for much of their populations. It’s only very limited types of governments that have allowed most of their population (though not all) to rise above that. So while it may not have been his intention, it very well does apply to the condition of the common man.

It’s in forgetting that we set a course to return.

 

[Chucktshoes]

To drop a moment of levity in the middle of things, just because it’s hilarious.

 

[Dtknuckles]

I think that’s a radical missuse of that passage by Hobbes. It’s his description of the “state of nature” without governments, not necessarily a comment on the life of the ordinary man. Although in the 1651 it would probably be an understatement to describe the lives of the peasant class in such terms. That said like most men of his time and age his theories were not for the peasant class but those he’d deem worthy.

This is the full text of that passage where he describes the “state of nature” or life without government:

“In such condition, there is no place for industry; because the fruit thereof is uncertain: and consequently no culture of the earth; no navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by sea; no commodious building; no instruments of moving, and removing, such things as require much force; no knowledge of the face of the earth; no account of time; no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.”

That said I don’t necessarily disagree with you that suffering, on one level or another, is an inevitable part of the human condition. I was brought up Catholic though and man is suffering fetishised there!

I prefer the Taoist ideas about suffering over Catholic.

The Master sees things as they are,
without trying to control them.
She lets them go their own way,
and resides at the center of the circle.

 

[Thackeraye]

I think that’s a radical missuse of that passage by Hobbes. It’s his description of the “state of nature” without governments, not necessarily a comment on the life of the ordinary man. Although in the 1651 it would probably be an understatement to describe the lives of the peasant class in such terms. That said like most men of his time and age his theories were not for the peasant class but those he’d deem worthy.

This is the full text of that passage where he describes the “state of nature” or life without government:

“In such condition, there is no place for industry; because the fruit thereof is uncertain: and consequently no culture of the earth; no navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by sea; no commodious building; no instruments of moving, and removing, such things as require much force; no knowledge of the face of the earth; no account of time; no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.”

That said I don’t necessarily disagree with you that suffering, on one level or another, is an inevitable part of the human condition. I was brought up Catholic though and man is suffering fetishised there!

Hobbes is the tiger, isn't it?

 

[Dtknuckles]

Hobbes is the tiger, isn't it?

I bought my dad the complete Calvin and Hobbes for Christmas on year. I believe the copy burned up in the apartment fire he and his wife years back. I should buy another copy.