You listen to some of the best podcasts. Thanks for the recommendation.
Political Discussion
- Thread starter David A.
- Start date
Dtknuckles
Well-Known Member
I used to listen to a ton, but I got kind of bored of them. I think you would like Beautiful Anonymous also.
jaycee
Well-Known Member
This season of Slow Burn about the Iraq War scam is really good
Slow Burn
Eighteen months after 9/11, the United States invaded a country that had nothing to do with the attacks. Who’s to blame? And was there any way to stop it?
Here is the list of 21 republicans senators who voted against awarding capital police medals after the January 6th incineration.
Kind of hard for them to award a medal for something they say didn't happen.
Yes, the leak was illegal, but it's something the American people should know. I contest that they should know this because these billionaires have real power over our government, our commerce, our news, and our economy. If there was some mechanism that allowed for someone to not ever amass this much power, then I would agree that it's wrong to leak this information. However, if these billionaires are off shoring money to avoid paying taxes, or using the tax code itself to their benefit (the same tax code that the senators that these billionaires were giving direct and indirect campaign contributions to revised from the Obama and Trump eras), then I think the American people should know about it. The official narrative is that the top 1% pays more than it's fair share, but if you look at the numbers, these billionaires are claiming that their income is, things don't add up:
I'm going off of the table with the incomes and it shows that of the 1,443,179 returns from the 1%, it claims that they made (adjusted gross that is) $2,420,025,000,000 for all of 2018. If you divide the money by the number of returns filed, you get an average adjusted income of $1,676,870.99, or approximately $1.7M as the average income of the top 1% in this country. This is definitely not correct. There is no way that Elon Musk, Warren Buffet, and Bill Gates can be in that bucket and only rake in $1.7M in income in one year. Sorry, not buying that. And yes what they do is legal, because their main strategy is to take out loans that are higher than their incomes and make business decisions to do things like not pay out dividends--thus decreasing their capital gains tax while increasing their stocks thus giving them collateral for all of the loans they are taking out.
Summary of the Latest Federal Income Tax Data, 2023 Update
The latest IRS data shows that the U.S. federal individual income tax continued to be progressive, borne primarily by the highest income earners.taxfoundation.org
So if these very rich individuals are giving dark money to candidates, helping to appoint people to political offices like the IRS, the FDA, NSA, CIA, FBI, ect. and promising them jobs or speaker gigs when they leave office, then they have more power than you or I, and they need to be held accountable for this vast power. This leak just proved what most Americans suspected, that the rich get out of paying their fair share of taxes, and they do it through legal, but questionable avenues, that are only available to the ultra rich. This realization is just another piece of evidence of the erosion of our democracy. It tells the world that we are for sale to the highest bidder.
I hate the whole "pay their fair share" narrative.
It was something covered in political science class in college actually. They consider paying a their fair share as paying the same amount of money in taxes as the average joe. Not the same percentage.
Among the top 1% and republican lawmakers there is a very strong believe that the percentage tax system is not fair. That a millionaire would pay much much more in taxes than the average american and that that is not fair. It should not be the millionaires responsibility to fund the system, they should fund it equally to the average joe.
And that stream of thought just infuriates me. Because the average joe is paying by the percentage. And not only that, the average joe also does not have the same tax write off options written into tax law that allow them to zero out their taxes. I hate the whole "your smart" and "financially responsible" argument if you manage to write off all your taxes. The ideal amount is to pay nothing.
jaycee
Well-Known Member
Andrew Yang is a dangerous dude. The mental illness comments from yesterday's debates are more than of the moment political drama. He's made similar comments before. His books distinguish between "...normal people" and others, "smart people..." and others. Positioning himself as a progressive in wolf's clothing is a smart move. I hope NYC isn't buying it.
Dtknuckles
Well-Known Member
Why do people that are successful in some way think they are worth more than everybody else?
Yep, the more I read about a lot of these people the more I see that they create a mental divider. If you aren't smart enough, pretty enough, talented enough or just born into wealth, then you're a degenerate that needs to get out of the way of "productive people". As a mom with a mentally challenged son, it breaks my heart to realize that our leaders are doing everything they can to make the world so much more hostile to him.
jaycee
Well-Known Member
Because our society tells them they are
Our system is set up as a meritocracy. You get only what you "earn".
However, a system based solely on merit can easily be corrupted, because it's in an individual's interest to cheat their way to the top. So the meritocracy, while trying to find the best and the brightest, also ends up getting the most unscrupulous. And as more and more ruthless people rise to the top, they started buying off politicians and writing laws that helped them and their family stay at the top. They destroyed the laws that made it hard to amass wealth, and rigged the system for their benefit. Then after destroying the rules that make the meritocracy work, they claim that it's still in place, and they have rightfully "earned" their position. After all, they went to the best schools with the best teachers and were connected with the best people in order to get where they are. Those that aren't where they are, just didn't try hard enough. This is what the American upper class tells themselves at night to feel better. They "earned" all they have, and the luck of their birth was all in "God's plan". So either you are ordained by God to be where you are or you "earned" it, possibly even because you happened to "manifest" it all by yourself.
Also if rich people actually performed a bit a self evaluation and looked at why they were "successful" they would have an extreme existential crisis. Their entire identity is built around "deserving" what they have. It's honestly a mental preservation tactic, because it's the only way to exist when you're on that side of the wealth gap.
Dtknuckles
Well-Known Member
jaycee
Well-Known Member
I don't think our system was established on a level playing field. The people that made the rules were of privilege and established rules (and a caste system) to maintain that privilege, which we continue to maintain today.
jaycee
Well-Known Member
So this is something I'm really interested in and it seems like you've thought about it too. Why is self evaluation so painful especially for people in the privileged caste? I live in MN, where there seems to be a particular and maybe even extreme cultural version. I understand the pain associated with acknowledging that you've been propped up and that your identity is partially a myth. It is real pain and I get not wanting to deal with that, but I don't think people really consider that pain beforehand. I also get that they are conditioned to buy into myth generating narratives like "bootsraps" and "in the image of god," but I still don't fully grasp why self evaluation is mostly completely avoided.
It never was on a level field. But the people at the top maintain this myth as tightly as they maintain that the system is meritocratic and largely uncorrupt (with only a few bad players).
Dtknuckles
Well-Known Member
How often has anyone admitted when they have done something wrong. Look how hard it is to do when a person unintentionally does it. We don’t make room for people to be vulnerable in our culture.
jaycee
Well-Known Member
I don't know. I do but I know I'm in the minority. I agree we don't make room for vulnerability or failure. That's why I'm asking.
Max Sterling
Well-Known Member
I don't even know what I wrote this in response to... I just wanted to rant a bit.
It's glaringly apparent what the wealthy's mentality is when they band together in their rich communities, wanting to separate themselves from the larger cities. They're not a part of the city, They don't look at the homeless person on the corner and say "they're a part of my community" not even the server pouring their water at a restaurant, they're not some part of a bigger picture of which they are also only a part. They have these mindsets of being in a completely different ecosystem. Those they see as equals, the people they can relate to and relate to them, that understand the problems they deal with, those are their communities, their people. Which everyone else at a lower social standing sees blatantly so we of course have a hard time including them in our community mentality.
You hear them say things like "The city is gone to Hell" and talk about getting out, one way or another, because they have that power. They don't take any responsibility for anyone else. Why should they have to pay for the roads? (because you have the money) Why should they need to be involved in community outreach? (Because it's your community) Why isn't the city doing something about this crime? (Good question, maybe help instead of threaten to bankrupt them).
You have the poor just trying to make it in a system designed to keep them where they are, the middle class trying to live and work in that same system designed to keep them down all while believing they have something in common with the Rich, who for the most part just try not to think about all that.
It's glaringly apparent what the wealthy's mentality is when they band together in their rich communities, wanting to separate themselves from the larger cities. They're not a part of the city, They don't look at the homeless person on the corner and say "they're a part of my community" not even the server pouring their water at a restaurant, they're not some part of a bigger picture of which they are also only a part. They have these mindsets of being in a completely different ecosystem. Those they see as equals, the people they can relate to and relate to them, that understand the problems they deal with, those are their communities, their people. Which everyone else at a lower social standing sees blatantly so we of course have a hard time including them in our community mentality.
You hear them say things like "The city is gone to Hell" and talk about getting out, one way or another, because they have that power. They don't take any responsibility for anyone else. Why should they have to pay for the roads? (because you have the money) Why should they need to be involved in community outreach? (Because it's your community) Why isn't the city doing something about this crime? (Good question, maybe help instead of threaten to bankrupt them).
You have the poor just trying to make it in a system designed to keep them where they are, the middle class trying to live and work in that same system designed to keep them down all while believing they have something in common with the Rich, who for the most part just try not to think about all that.
I would say that self evaluation is a tough thing to do if you don't see a problem.
I have some pretty ruthless relatives. My parents kept me away from them, but they would constantly cluck at me about my weight and my hair and clothes. They would tell me not to say too much because I was "too smart" and that would "scare boys away". Their only goal was to marry well and be a trophy wife, and I would get a earful every time I was with my Grandmother and her sisters (save my Aunt Mary who stepped up to save the whole family after my great grandfather died when my grandmother was very young). These women see no problem with their lives. They have no problem lying to family members and trying to cheat them out of whatever they could. They would smile to your face and stab you in the back, and that's how family worked for them.
While I don't believe that everyone with great wealth is like my relatives, wealth can insulate people and they rarely need to deal with people that are not wealthy. If you never meet a person living pay check to pay check and really make friends with them, or if you've never lived pay check to pay check, it's hard to imagine what that's really like, especially if you come from a world of excess. These are the same people who are trying to give free yoga classes to inner city kids. Yeah, it's a nice thought and yoga helps them out so why wouldn't they share with these kids? What they don't realize is that no amount of yoga classes are going to replace comprehensive health care for all. These people don't understand the anxiety of living without healthcare, so they don't see that as a problem. They don't understand the problems we have and often find it absurd that we would get upset over something that they are given without having to worry about it. While almost every person I know has a high deductible health plan, the CEO's always get the Cadillac plans where everything is covered. If everyone in your friends circle had amazing health care, you wouldn't think it was a major problem on the national level.
The few that do understand the world and their role in it, usually lie to themselves about performing a vital service. For more on this, just read Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged. If they have to step on people to get something they want, they do it because those people were "stupid" or "lazy" or "not working hard enough". And this is where we could get into the concept of ego. When the ego is fed, it can become over inflated; and in the role of CEO or other powerful player, it's easy to get an inflated ego. Self reflection is almost the opposite of egotism. You have to be honest with the person you are, good and bad. I think this is really tough for people with large egos to do. They have built the brand of themselves, especially as a billionaire (think Elon), and this is what has made them successful. Now you're asking these same people to question all of that, including the part that made them successful. Self reflection can start to take the form of justification for actions if the person is not ready to truly confront the person inside.
This reminds me of comments in one of Bernie Sanders tweets a little over a year ago about wage inequality. He called out how wages are stagnant for most Americans while CEOs continue to amass more and more wealth at a ever growing rate.
Comments by people quickly called out that COE's earned their money and deserve while "unskilled labor got paid exactly what they owed".
That whole attitude about how these TOP 1% deserve the money they earn because they worked hard and had to make all the tough decisions is mind boggling to me. And if they make the wrong decisions they just get a bail out or pass the costs on to the consumers.
I also hate that it is assumed you are unskilled labor if you are not making a modest income. Student loan debt and globalization have pretty much taken away most modest wages and good life styles for Millenials. Sure the top 1% of our generation still exists, but there is an ever grower percentage of people who are not living comfortable. And it's not because they made bad decisions or aren't working heard to earn it.