Political Discussion

[gouis]

It’s a hard thing to admit when you are less than perfect.

I wouldn't know

 

[gouis]

So this is something I'm really interested in and it seems like you've thought about it too. Why is self evaluation so painful especially for people in the privileged caste? I live in MN, where there seems to be a particular and maybe even extreme cultural version. I understand the pain associated with acknowledging that you've been propped up and that your identity is partially a myth. It is real pain and I get not wanting to deal with that, but I don't think people really consider that pain beforehand. I also get that they are conditioned to buy into myth generating narratives like "bootsraps" and "in the image of god," but I still don't fully grasp why self evaluation is mostly completely avoided.

Something something Puritans.

 

[RenegadeMonster]

CNN had a great article earlier this week about for too many Americans now home ownership is unaffordable. This whole wealth discussion has made me think about it.

Too many working-class neighborhoods have been steamrolled by gentrification to become "luxury," pricing those out who grew up there. Affordable housing is at the lowest levels of all time in our country and those who didn't accumulate wealth by buying a house years ago and selling it for 2 to 3 times what they paid for it are often unable to buy a house. Especially in this hot housing market that exists today.

For the majority of first time home buyers, they just simply can't afford to buy a home or complete in bidding wars.

Home ownership and a two car garage is the picture of the middle class. Yet the United States has a lower home ownership percentage than many countries in Europe. And the percentage continues to decline. As of 2019 65% of Americans owned their home. There are estimates that that number may have now fallen to 60% post pandemic.

List of countries by home ownership rate​

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is a list of countries and territories by home ownership rate, which is the ratio of owner-occupied units to total residential units in a specified area.[1]

Country or Territory	Home ownership rate(%)	Date of Information
Romania	95.8	2019[2]
Hungary	91.7	2019[2]
Slovakia	91.3	2018[2]
Singapore	91	2018[3]
Cuba	90	2014[4]
Vietnam	90	2020[5]
Lithuania	89.9	2018[2]
Croatia	89.7	2019[2]
China	89.68	2018[6]
North Macedonia	88.7	2017[3]
Nepal	88.3	2016[3]
Russia	87.3	2016[3]
India	86.6	2011[7]
Serbia	84.4	2018[3]
Poland	84.2	2019[2]
Bulgaria	84.1	2019[2]
Oman	83	2014[8]
Indonesia	82.8	2015[9]
Estonia	81.7	2019[2]
Norway	81.3	2018[2]
Latvia	80.2	2019[2]
Mexico	80	2009[10]
Thailand	80	2002[11]
Malta	79.8	2019[2]
Czech Republic	78.6	2019[2]
Spain	76.2	2019[2]
Trinidad and Tobago	76	2013[12]
Greece	75.4	2019[2]
Slovenia	74.8	2019[2]
Portugal	74.5	2018[2]
Brazil	74.4	2008[13]
Iceland	74.1	2014[2]
Italy	72.4	2018[2]
Belgium	72.3	2018[2]
Luxembourg	71.2	2018[2]
Finland	71.1	2019[2]
Ireland	70.3	2018[2]
Netherlands	69.0	2019[2]
Canada	68.5	2018[14]
Cyprus	67.9	2019[2]
Israel	67.3	2014[15]
Australia	65.5	2016[16]
United States	65.3	2019[17]
France	65.1	2018[2]
Sweden	63.6	2016[2]
New Zealand	63.2	2017[18]
United Kingdom	63	2018[19]
Japan	61.2	2017[20]
Denmark	60.8	2019[2]
Turkey	59.0	2018[2]
South Korea	56.8	2015[21]
Austria	55.2	2019[2]
Germany	51.5	2018[2]
Hong Kong	51	2014[22]
Switzerland	43.4	2015[2]

 

[Dtknuckles]

I think I’ve seen this movie

I have some pretty ruthless relatives. My parents kept me away from them, but they would constantly cluck at me about my weight and my hair and clothes. They would tell me not to say too much because I was "too smart" and that would "scare boys away". Their only goal was to marry well and be a trophy wife, and I would get a earful every time I was with my Grandmother and her sisters (save my Aunt Mary who stepped up to save the whole family after my great grandfather died when my grandmother was very young). These women see no problem with their lives. They have no problem lying to family members and trying to cheat them out of whatever they could. They would smile to your face and stab you in the back, and that's how family worked for them

 

[nolalady]

I think I’ve seen this movie

They are all absolutely absurd. I thank my parents for having the sense to keep me far away from them most of the time.

 

[Melt Face Molly Drop]

CNN had a great article earlier this week about for too many Americans now home ownership is unaffordable. This whole wealth discussion has made me think about it.

Too many working-class neighborhoods have been steamrolled by gentrification to become "luxury," pricing those out who grew up there. Affordable housing is at the lowest levels of all time in our country and those who didn't accumulate wealth by buying a house years ago and selling it for 2 to 3 times what they paid for it are often unable to buy a house. Especially in this hot housing market that exists today.

For the majority of first time home buyers, they just simply can't afford to buy a home or complete in bidding wars.

Home ownership and a two car garage is the picture of the middle class. Yet the United States has a lower home ownership percentage than many countries in Europe. And the percentage continues to decline. As of 2019 65% of Americans owned their home. There are estimates that that number may have now fallen to 60% post pandemic.

List of countries by home ownership rate​

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is a list of countries and territories by home ownership rate, which is the ratio of owner-occupied units to total residential units in a specified area.[1]

The middle class has been dying for decades it seems. Do they opine why we’re in this situation and how we get out of it? To me, the why is not as simple as “greed” or capitalism but points to a deeper seated issue that starts with policies passed.

The infrastructure is set up to fail and will start and end with an uprising from within.

 

[nolalady]

The middle class has been dying for decades it seems. Do they opine why we’re in this situation and how we get out of it? To me, the why is not as simple as “greed” or capitalism but points to a deeper seated issue that starts with policies passed.

The infrastructure is set up to fail and will start and end with an uprising from within.

From the things I have read, the reason that the middle class has been dying is due to stagnant wages and ever increasing healthcare, housing and education costs that are rising much faster than inflation. There's also some argument for rising consumerism. The average American household has increased their consumption by 140% over the last few decades, and this also keeps people from wealth. The Federal Bank has decided to keep the interest rates as close to 2% as they can through financial market manipulation--i.e. giving easy credit to very wealth people. This is a lot of what is causing asset price rise in the housing market and what is pushing people from being able to afford housing--but with easy lending terms it helps out anyone who is credit worthy and wants to be a land lord seeing as 40% of all homes bought in 2019 were first time investment properties (people who never thought of buying a second house realizing that it's a good way to pad their income). I've also read some decent articles regarding our manufacturing, specifically in the 1960's and 70's, we had trade agreements only with those countries that were democracies--Japan, South Korea, etc. But the dems made a fundamental shift in the 70's from their progressive agenda towards a neoliberal agenda where profit was king and it no longer mattered who was making our products, or under what conditions these people were working. When we decided to allow trade with whomever, our manufacturing couldn't compete with sweat shop slave labor. So some of the best paying, union jobs went away, and more and more followed. The erosion of collective worker power also helped reduce the middle class since they no longer had a representative at the table for bargaining.

What needs to happen? People need to get paid more. Will this cause inflation? Probably. We also need universal healthcare. Every nation with a strong middle class also has universal healthcare. We need a total rethinking of neoliberal and neoconservative policies because they are toxic for our society and our planet. For once, profit cannot drive everything and shareholders should not be held in higher regard that a business's customers or staff. We also need to start prosecuting members of congress for insider trading, and have strict rules around any elected government officials' personal financial accounts. And yes, I do believe there needs to be some redistribution too.

 

[Max Sterling]

When you're low income you spend more time working often more physically demanding and mentally taxing jobs. You can't afford and/or don't have the time for healthy food. All your money goes towards maintaining the the things you own, which are the less expensive, less durable versions of whatever. You can't afford kayaking retreats in the mountains or whatever, so you spend your fun money on shit that makes you feel good for short periods of time that takes the edge off. Rent/Mortgages keep rising, your neighbourhoods getting "nicer" so your taxes increase. Stress, physically/mentally demanding jobs, unhealthy living, all these make people more likely to get sick, bankrupt themselves. It's a cycle that keeps these people flipping burgers, answering phones, moving boxes.

Better Healthcare, higher wages, regulated housing, mandatory paid vacation, all of this not only trends folks healthier, it also bolsters the economy when all of a sudden these folks have it to spend in their communities and on vacation. I work with a lot of Europeans and yeah, they pay a lot of taxes, but they also spend weeks at a time in dream vacation spots EVERY YEAR, where as I know people who will save up for multiple years to take one trip to Florida or drive for hours out to some camp ground out west for a weekend so they can see the Grand Canyon!

The problem is we've been conditioned to think this is how it's supposed to be. You're supposed to "earn" what you get, work hard for your time off. It's maddening when you work with people with a different mindset. Whenever we have multi-country teams, us from the US will work extra hours and over the weekends to make sure we hit goals and due dates, our European counter parts will work until they hit their weekly hours and then they take their mandatory rest periods. It's SO MUCH healthier but we're told that's lazy and inefficient.

 

[Dtknuckles]

When you're low income you spend more time working often more physically demanding and mentally taxing jobs. You can't afford and/or don't have the time for healthy food. All your money goes towards maintaining the the things you own, which are the less expensive, less durable versions of whatever. You can't afford kayaking retreats in the mountains or whatever, so you spend your fun money on shit that makes you feel good for short periods of time that takes the edge off. Rent/Mortgages keep rising, your neighbourhoods getting "nicer" so your taxes increase. Stress, physically/mentally demanding jobs, unhealthy living, all these make people more likely to get sick, bankrupt themselves. It's a cycle that keeps these people flipping burgers, answering phones, moving boxes.

Better Healthcare, higher wages, regulated housing, mandatory paid vacation, all of this not only trends folks healthier, it also bolsters the economy when all of a sudden these folks have it to spend in their communities and on vacation. I work with a lot of Europeans and yeah, they pay a lot of taxes, but they also spend weeks at a time in dream vacation spots EVERY YEAR, where as I know people who will save up for multiple years to take one trip to Florida or drive for hours out to some camp ground out west for a weekend so they can see the Grand Canyon!

The problem is we've been conditioned to think this is how it's supposed to be. You're supposed to "earn" what you get, work hard for your time off. It's maddening when you work with people with a different mindset. Whenever we have multi-country teams, us from the US will work extra hours and over the weekends to make sure we hit goals and due dates, our European counter parts will work until they hit their weekly hours and then they take their mandatory rest periods. It's SO MUCH healthier but we're told that's lazy and inefficient.

Even with a union behind them people have a hard time turning it off after finishing their contractual hours.

 

[RenegadeMonster]

Even with a union behind them people have a hard time turning it off after finishing their contractual hours.

While I have never been part of a union, I have worked at places where you likely wouldn't stay employed long if you just worked your contractual hours. You for sure wouldn't get raises and get "needs improvement" on your reviews.

I ended up getting like a $2400 class action lawsuit payout back in like 2015 that I was automatically included in for being a former employe for one such job. It was about all the extra hours you were expected to work, but not paid for.

 

[Dtknuckles]

While I have never been part of a union, I have worked at places where you likely wouldn't stay employed long if you just worked your contractual hours. You for sure wouldn't get raises and get "needs improvement" on your reviews.

I ended up getting like a $2400 class action lawsuit payout back in like 2015 that I was automatically included in for being a former employe for one such job. It was about all the extra hours you were expected to work, but not paid for.

I hear this happens a lot in the IT world.

 

[Max Sterling]

I hear this happens a lot in the IT world.

Can confirm.

 

[debianlinux]

Our system is set up as a meritocracy. You get only what you "earn".

However, a system based solely on merit can easily be corrupted, because it's in an individual's interest to cheat their way to the top. So the meritocracy, while trying to find the best and the brightest, also ends up getting the most unscrupulous. And as more and more ruthless people rise to the top, they started buying off politicians and writing laws that helped them and their family stay at the top. They destroyed the laws that made it hard to amass wealth, and rigged the system for their benefit. Then after destroying the rules that make the meritocracy work, they claim that it's still in place, and they have rightfully "earned" their position. After all, they went to the best schools with the best teachers and were connected with the best people in order to get where they are. Those that aren't where they are, just didn't try hard enough. This is what the American upper class tells themselves at night to feel better. They "earned" all they have, and the luck of their birth was all in "God's plan". So either you are ordained by God to be where you are or you "earned" it, possibly even because you happened to "manifest" it all by yourself.

To be clear, I haven't read past this comment right here. But, yeah, this also what Boomers are telling themselves to sleep at night.

 

[tonythegamer]

hey, this topic's been kind of up for debate right now between me and my family. Should I still wear a mask even if I'm vaccinated? I feel like I should out of respect for others, even when my state lifts mask restrictions come the 22nd. My parents say I'm vaccinated and it shouldn't matter that I'm still wearing a mask. Discuss.

 

[Max Sterling]

hey, this topic's been kind of up for debate right now between me and my family. Should I still wear a mask even if I'm vaccinated? I feel like I should out of respect for others, even when my state lifts mask restrictions come the 22nd. My parents say I'm vaccinated and it shouldn't matter that I'm still wearing a mask. Discuss.

I keep one with me and feel out wherever I am, for the most part. I wear a mask into and out of restaurants, but obviously don't while I'm eating. I don't need to when I'm at my friends places anymore since we're all vaccinated, same with family. I'll continue to wear one in Grocery stores, at least for a while longer. I will never again go through an airport without one.

 

[Colonel_Angus]

I feel like I should

There's your answer

 

[jaycee]

hey, this topic's been kind of up for debate right now between me and my family. Should I still wear a mask even if I'm vaccinated? I feel like I should out of respect for others, even when my state lifts mask restrictions come the 22nd. My parents say I'm vaccinated and it shouldn't matter that I'm still wearing a mask. Discuss.

Do what you feel is best. Being vaccinated doesn't mean sterilization. It's means that you and other vaccinated people are far less likely to contract the virus, but it doesn't mean that you can't. It doesn't mean you can't pass it on to somebody else or vice versa. Also these mRNA vaccines, if that's what you have, seem to be highly effective but they are new and we don't fully know how they will do as new variants evolve. It may be an over abundance of caution, but if wearing a mask makes you and others feel more comfortable, and you want to help protect people as much as possible then there's nothing wrong with wearing one.

 

[tonythegamer]

I keep one with me and feel out wherever I am, for the most part. I wear a mask into and out of restaurants, but obviously don't while I'm eating. I don't need to when I'm at my friends places anymore since we're all vaccinated, same with family. I'll continue to wear one in Grocery stores, at least for a while longer. I will never again go through an airport without one.

There's your answer

Do what you feel is best. Being vaccinated doesn't mean sterilization. It's means that you and other vaccinated people are far less likely to contract the virus, but it doesn't mean that you can't. It doesn't mean you can't pass it on to somebody else or vice versa. Also these mRNA vaccines, if that's what you have, seem to be highly effective but they are new and we don't fully know how they will do as new variants evolve. It may be an over abundance of caution, but if wearing a mask makes you and others feel more comfortable, and you want to help protect people as much as possible then there's nothing wrong with wearing one.

Yeah these just reaffirmed what I already felt. Thanks for the input!

 

[nolalady]

hey, this topic's been kind of up for debate right now between me and my family. Should I still wear a mask even if I'm vaccinated? I feel like I should out of respect for others, even when my state lifts mask restrictions come the 22nd. My parents say I'm vaccinated and it shouldn't matter that I'm still wearing a mask. Discuss.

This would probably be better suited for the Covid thread itself, but as a former public health employee and student of epidemiology, I can say that scientifically speaking, face masks should be worn until we reach herd immunity which they are saying is around 60-70%. I generally wear them if I am going to a very crowded place; if I'm going to a place where I know everyone has been vaxed, I'm much more lax. But I think that it's also somewhat situational, we know with coronavirus that if you aren't symptomatic that your viral load is down, and it is harder to spread covid. If you are feeling sick or have a cough or runny nose, I would definitely wear one.

You can still get sick from covid even if you had a vaccine, but your risk of severe illness and hospitalization is highly unlikely, and I have yet to see any white papers that have seen people hospitalized after a covid vaccine (for a covid related illness that is). But this means that you could also be a vector of disease spread, which is why until we get it controlled in the general public, there will be a risk of outbreak unless people take precautions. The problem with this virus is that it's highly contagious, even moreso than the flu, so spreading it is easy and getting it to controllable levels is a monumental feat.

So yeah, masking up is a good thing until we get to herd immunity, but I understand the Biden administration's tactic of telling people that they don't have to wear masks. They are trying to compel people to get vaccinated by giving them the incentive of not having to wear the mask.

 

[Dtknuckles]

hey, this topic's been kind of up for debate right now between me and my family. Should I still wear a mask even if I'm vaccinated? I feel like I should out of respect for others, even when my state lifts mask restrictions come the 22nd. My parents say I'm vaccinated and it shouldn't matter that I'm still wearing a mask. Discuss.

Everything has lifted in CA, but I feel like if the staff have masks on I should.