Political Discussion

Bull Shannon said:
We're finally in a place where we can actually think about buying a house, and even though we're above "lower middle class" in Portland, we would have to compromise massively (and probably buy something hastily flipped) if we were to afford a home in town.
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I feel for ya. We have lived in Tacoma for a little over a decade now and things changed so fast here over that time frame. The first 4 years we rented (and we lived in a nice part of town and our rent was under $800 a month) but I had a good friend who flipped/wholesaled homes and told me how much the market was heating up so we started looking into buying at the beginning at the 2016 and even then it took us 6 months to be able to find something. We are happy with where we are but we had to compromise to be able to find some within the city limits. Over the last 8 years our home has over doubled in value. We are happy but at the same time we understand that we are essentially stuck here as long as we wanna stay in the Pacific Northwest. Things have grown beyond our means to the point that even if we sold we would have a tough time ever being able to buy a new home out here. It’s is a bit tempting to sell and buy something back in the Midwest where we would be able to almost buy a comparable home to what we have now for basically the profit we would make just from selling our home. That being said, we really love it out here so it’s not something we have considered too hard but it’s tempting as these prices keeping going up.
 
Bull Shannon said:
We're finally in a place where we can actually think about buying a house, and even though we're above "lower middle class" in Portland, we would have to compromise massively (and probably buy something hastily flipped) if we were to afford a home in town.
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PNW is impossible to own a home at this point (as a first time buyer). Feels like builders and sellers are trying to keep the pandemic prices and profits going, but that’s just not a reality. Sucks that there are existing homes just sitting and not coming up for sale.

We similarly would love to upgrade but we’d have to seriously compromise to get anything meaningful.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
I feel for ya. We have lived in Tacoma for a little over a decade now and things changed so fast here over that time frame. The first 4 years we rented (and we lived in a nice part of town and our rent was under $800 a month) but I had a good friend who flipped/wholesaled homes and told me how much the market was heating up so we started looking into buying at the beginning at the 2016 and even then it took us 6 months to be able to find something. We are happy with where we are but we had to compromise to be able to find some within the city limits. Over the last 8 years our home has over doubled in value. We are happy but at the same time we understand that we are essentially stuck here as long as we wanna stay in the Pacific Northwest. Things have grown beyond our means to the point that even if we sold we would have a tough time ever being able to buy a new home out here. It’s is a bit tempting to sell and buy something back in the Midwest where we would be able to almost buy a comparable home to what we have now for basically the profit we would make just from selling our home. That being said, we really love it out here so it’s not something we have considered too hard but it’s tempting as these prices keeping going up.
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epyon415 said:
PNW is impossible to own a home at this point (as a first time buyer). Feels like builders and sellers are trying to keep the pandemic prices and profits going, but that’s just not a reality. Sucks that there are existing homes just sitting and not coming up for sale.

We similarly would love to upgrade but we’d have to seriously compromise to get anything meaningful.
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We're pretty paralyzed by the choice right now. Living a couple hours outside the city would be fine and even ideal; I'd rather live in the sticks than the suburbs. But, I'm sure you're familiar, the more rural you get in the PNW the less friendly the political atmosphere gets. Trucks trailing tattered flags, Punisher stickers and all that; call me a snowflake but I don't care to rub elbows with the "f your feelings" set. Plus: forest fires.

Our eyes are drifting towards the east coast, particularly Vermont; their quality of life seems ideal, and the politics have a certain common sense to them which I adore (they outlawed billboards! They used to be red until the 60s, when a senator (governor?) flipped them off the premise that liberalism would do more to ensure Republican values at the time). My only fear there is the lack of diversity; it seems friendlier than OR/WA, but I'd feel weird being in the less than 3% POC population. Not that Portland is a hotbed of diversity; the ego and self-sabotage of politics here actually make me feel downright erased as a "passing" mixed-race individual (i often feel pressure to "prove" my blackness, and people often flat-out scoff at my identity due to my not fitting into a preconceived image), and I'd even argue there's very little diversity within the homogeneity (I remember being surprised at the "variety" of white people when visiting my sister in Chicago!).
 
Bull Shannon said:
We're pretty paralyzed by the choice right now. Living a couple hours outside the city would be fine and even ideal; I'd rather live in the sticks than the suburbs. But, I'm sure you're familiar, the more rural you get in the PNW the less friendly the political atmosphere gets. Trucks trailing tattered flags, Punisher stickers and all that; call me a snowflake but I don't care to rub elbows with the "f your feelings" set. Plus: forest fires.

Our eyes are drifting towards the east coast, particularly Vermont; their quality of life seems ideal, and the politics have a certain common sense to them which I adore (they outlawed billboards! They used to be red until the 60s, when a senator (governor?) flipped them off the premise that liberalism would do more to ensure Republican values at the time). My only fear there is the lack of diversity; it seems friendlier than OR/WA, but I'd feel weird being in the less than 3% POC population. Not that Portland is a hotbed of diversity; the ego and self-sabotage of politics here actually make me feel downright erased as a "passing" mixed-race individual (i often feel pressure to "prove" my blackness, and people often flat-out scoff at my identity due to my not fitting into a preconceived image), and I'd even argue there's very little diversity within the homogeneity (I remember being surprised at the "variety" of white people when visiting my sister in Chicago!).
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Yeah, I occasionally will “window shop” for homes and Vermont/Maine have both been areas that have appealed to be from quality of life standpoint but it does seem that the few small cities in those states have seen a decent spike in home prices post pandemic so while it’s for sure cheaper than out here it’s not as much as I would hope fore especially considering The brutal winters we’d have to contend with. Recently I have been intrigued by Syracuse, NY. It’s a rust belt city that has seen better days but it seems like they have lots of old homes at very affordable prices available and since it’s a college town you would have more art and culture than in a lot of similar areas. Beyond that, areas surrounding Lake Michigan in both Michigan and Wisconsin seem affordable if a bit remote. I also am a fan of Duluth MN, it’s cold but the summers on Lake Superior would be amazing.

But if you are looking at Vermont and want a first hand account on life there, you should reach out to @wokeupnew he is just getting to move away from Vermont back to his home state but would likely be able to provide valuable insight.
 
Bull Shannon said:
I'm sure you're familiar, the more rural you get in the PNW the less friendly the political atmosphere gets.
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Being originally only familiar with Portland and Eugene I remember being a bit confounded by Oregon being a swing state until I actually spent some time throughout the state rather than mostly passing through... it became obvious very quickly! Which is a damn shame, because rural Oregon is absolutely gorgeous.
 
Bull Shannon said:
Our eyes are drifting towards the east coast, particularly Vermont; their quality of life seems ideal, and the politics have a certain common sense to them which I adore (they outlawed billboards! They used to be red until the 60s, when a senator (governor?) flipped them off the premise that liberalism would do more to ensure Republican values at the time). My only fear there is the lack of diversity; it seems friendlier than OR/WA, but I'd feel weird being in the less than 3% POC population. Not that Portland is a hotbed of diversity; the ego and self-sabotage of politics here actually make me feel downright erased as a "passing" mixed-race individual (i often feel pressure to "prove" my blackness, and people often flat-out scoff at my identity due to my not fitting into a preconceived image), and I'd even argue there's very little diversity within the homogeneity (I remember being surprised at the "variety" of white people when visiting my sister in Chicago!).
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If you don't want to be in one of the major cities Burlington, Montpelier, White River Junction and a couple of other smaller towns that lean expensive (Stowe, Waterbury, Shelburne, Middlebury, a couple of other ski towns in southern VT) it's relatively cheap. If you're coming from Portland, then yeah it's pretty cheap. It's too expensive for us so we're moving out. However, we wanted to buy in the Burlington metro because there's lots to do. Anywhere else, you can make your own community, but just remember that it's very rural and we didn't want that isolation for the price. But plenty of folks love it. I might in like 30 years but not now.
politics have a certain common sense to them
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Yeah, I agree. We famously have a Republican governor who continues to get reelected because he's very common sense and anti-Trump. He's like a 90s Republican more than the modern day. Socially liberal, fiscally moderate tbh.

I was down in CT looking at houses this weekend and I saw more Trumpers than I do in VT. I'm in a very, very, very liberal part of the state, and you'll get more in rural locations but it does seem like there are less insane crazy people in giant trucks flying trump flags or Vanifestos. Less insane yard signs that say "Let's Go Brandon" or whatever. People just seem more chill overall.
My only fear there is the lack of diversity; it seems friendlier than OR/WA, but I'd feel weird being in the less than 3% POC population
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This is true. If you're near a larger city, you'll see some more diverse folks but more rural, you might be one of the few in your town. I can't really comment as a white person but I had a few POC coworkers who seem to not have issues. It'll really vary depending on if you run into crazies.

I don't think it's too friendly. Again, it kind of varies, but I had a small group or sort of friends that I sometimes hung out with who were kind of cold and distant. It's a New England thing really, sometimes we just come off as cold when it's not the intention. But I barely have any outside work friends since I've moved here almost 7 years ago. I see my friends from CT more than I do anyone here. I'm older and not in school or anything but it was harder to make friends for me. If you have kids in school or are generally more outgoing and seek out support groups or social clubs then you might fare better. I really didn't try to make friends so I'm okay with how it happened.
TenderLovingKiller® said:
Yeah, I occasionally will “window shop” for homes and Vermont/Maine have both been areas that have appealed to be from quality of life standpoint but it does seem that the few small cities in those states have seen a decent spike in home prices post pandemic so while it’s for sure cheaper than out here it’s not as much as I would hope fore especially considering The brutal winters we’d have to contend with. Recently I have been intrigued by Syracuse, NY. It’s a rust belt city that has seen better days but it seems like they have lots of old homes at very affordable prices available and since it’s a college town you would have more art and culture than in a lot of similar areas. Beyond that, areas surrounding Lake Michigan in both Michigan and Wisconsin seem affordable if a bit remote. I also am a fan of Duluth MN, it’s cold but the summers on Lake Superior would be amazing.

But if you are looking at Vermont and want a first hand account on life there, you should reach out to @wokeupnew he is just getting to move away from Vermont back to his home state but would likely be able to provide valuable insight.
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Ha! my new job is actually located in Syracuse (I work remote) and I've talked with my new coworkers about buying a home and all of them already own homes. They're mostly younger than me too, so it's super affordable to own a home in your mid-late 20s. It's a surprisingly decent sized city with a big metro area. Near the Finger Lakes, Adirondacks, a short drive into Buffalo for bigger things if you need to. It's got a few good colleges around there too to keep the culture consistent too. Not a bad option IMO.
 
avecigrec said:
Being originally only familiar with Portland and Eugene I remember being a bit confounded by Oregon being a swing state until I actually spent some time throughout the state rather than mostly passing through... it became obvious very quickly! Which is a damn shame, because rural Oregon is absolutely gorgeous.
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There's a lot of tension due to Portland having such a reputation as a liberal haven; it only impresses a victim mentality on the right (see the Greater Idaho Movement) and leads to a lot of open provocation on their part. That said, we've traveled around the state a lot over the years; been in rural shops, gas stations, and diners; strangers are coldly indifferent at worst but friendly for the most part; and I've never had any trouble beyond aggressive drivers. The reality of living next to someone with a...politically expressive...RAM truck is a whole nother thing.

wokeupnew said:
If you don't want to be in one of the major cities Burlington, Montpelier, White River Junction and a couple of other smaller towns that lean expensive (Stowe, Waterbury, Shelburne, Middlebury, a couple of other ski towns in southern VT) it's relatively cheap. If you're coming from Portland, then yeah it's pretty cheap. It's too expensive for us so we're moving out. However, we wanted to buy in the Burlington metro because there's lots to do. Anywhere else, you can make your own community, but just remember that it's very rural and we didn't want that isolation for the price. But plenty of folks love it. I might in like 30 years but not now.

Yeah, I agree. We famously have a Republican governor who continues to get reelected because he's very common sense and anti-Trump. He's like a 90s Republican more than the modern day. Socially liberal, fiscally moderate tbh.

I was down in CT looking at houses this weekend and I saw more Trumpers than I do in VT. I'm in a very, very, very liberal part of the state, and you'll get more in rural locations but it does seem like there are less insane crazy people in giant trucks flying trump flags or Vanifestos. Less insane yard signs that say "Let's Go Brandon" or whatever. People just seem more chill overall.

This is true. If you're near a larger city, you'll see some more diverse folks but more rural, you might be one of the few in your town. I can't really comment as a white person but I had a few POC coworkers who seem to not have issues. It'll really vary depending on if you run into crazies.

I don't think it's too friendly. Again, it kind of varies, but I had a small group or sort of friends that I sometimes hung out with who were kind of cold and distant. It's a New England thing really, sometimes we just come off as cold when it's not the intention. But I barely have any outside work friends since I've moved here almost 7 years ago. I see my friends from CT more than I do anyone here. I'm older and not in school or anything but it was harder to make friends for me. If you have kids in school or are generally more outgoing and seek out support groups or social clubs then you might fare better. I really didn't try to make friends so I'm okay with how it happened.
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Thanks for the insight! We visited last fall as a factfinding mission and I remember having a bit of a conniption seeing prices around Stowe during the first half of our stay; it seemed really unappealing in a touristy way, and the prices were not welcoming. We spent the second half of the week around Londonderry/Manchester and found it more charming and down to earth, especially Brattleboro and Bennington.

I think the remoteness makes me nervous, but my wife is gregarious in every way I'm not and makes friends wherever she goes. I think we're aching a bit for more isolated living; we've been in Portland about 15 years, the 8 most recent of which have been in a one-bedroom apartment in a dense part of town, travel to the remote parts of Oregon whenever we can, and think country living might do us some good for a bit (we're actually considering doing that for a while, then moving into the city again once we're too old to drive or otherwise support a rural lifestyle).

What especially troubles me is, and this may sound superficial, access to concert venues and movie theaters. I'm absolutely spoiled here, walking distance from a 70mm screen arthouse/rep theater and an ideal tour stop in the PNW; not as many flicks justify a 30-45 minute drive, and 2+ hours to get to a major tour stop turns a night out into an overnight excursion.
 
Bull Shannon said:
What especially troubles me is, and this may sound superficial, access to concert venues and movie theaters. I'm absolutely spoiled here, walking distance from a 70mm screen arthouse/rep theater and an ideal tour stop in the PNW; not as many flicks justify a 30-45 minute drive, and 2+ hours to get to a major tour stop turns a night out into an overnight excursion.
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Ha! No shame. I check out stuff like this when I am window shopping too. I think that’s why I enjoy college towns quite a bit. My buddy lives in Iowa City which is less than half the size of Tacoma but because the University of Iowa is located there he has lots of great concerts and record stores in a lot of ways it has a bigger imprint in that regard.
 
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wokeupnew said:
Ha! my new job is actually located in Syracuse (I work remote) and I've talked with my new coworkers about buying a home and all of them already own homes. They're mostly younger than me too, so it's super affordable to own a home in your mid-late 20s. It's a surprisingly decent sized city with a big metro area. Near the Finger Lakes, Adirondacks, a short drive into Buffalo for bigger things if you need to. It's got a few good colleges around there too to keep the culture consistent too. Not a bad option IMO.
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I had an absolutely fantastic time in Syracuse. Spent about a week there on tour about 13 years ago, and it was great. Our gig happened to coincide with a big snowstorm so it was sparsely attended, but we had an absolute blast nevertheless.
 
Bull Shannon said:
Thanks for the insight! We visited last fall as a factfinding mission and I remember having a bit of a conniption seeing prices around Stowe during the first half of our stay; it seemed really unappealing in a touristy way, and the prices were not welcoming. We spent the second half of the week around Londonderry/Manchester and found it more charming and down to earth, especially Brattleboro and Bennington.
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Lots of people like NH over VT because of the fewer taxes. I've heard many people in VT say they're moving there because of that reason alone. NH is like a grungier Maine. Much more freedom folks in those parts but still not a bad state at all. I used to take family vacations to the White Mountains in NH and it's a beautiful area.

Brattleboro and Bennington are not bad. They're slowly losing population, Bennington more than Brattleboro. I'd pick Brattleboro over Bennington because you're so close to Mass on I91 and access to Northampton, the Berkshires, southern NH and not far from Central VT. It does have a small but mighty local music scene. too far for me to ever see a show but I know about it from some bands.
Bull Shannon said:
I think the remoteness makes me nervous, but my wife is gregarious in every way I'm not and makes friends wherever she goes. I think we're aching a bit for more isolated living; we've been in Portland about 15 years, the 8 most recent of which have been in a one-bedroom apartment in a dense part of town, travel to the remote parts of Oregon whenever we can, and think country living might do us some good for a bit (we're actually considering doing that for a while, then moving into the city again once we're too old to drive or otherwise support a rural lifestyle).
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It's remote, but it's not really too bad. Maybe the closest similarity is like Astoria OR, where it's a decent sized town, but isolated. There's not nothing there, but you still will have to travel slightly further for more amenities depending on the town. You might only have one choice of store for grocery shopping and it might be 10-25 minutes away. But if you don't mind it's a nice change of pace.
Bull Shannon said:
What especially troubles me is, and this may sound superficial, access to concert venues and movie theaters. I'm absolutely spoiled here, walking distance from a 70mm screen arthouse/rep theater and an ideal tour stop in the PNW; not as many flicks justify a 30-45 minute drive, and 2+ hours to get to a major tour stop turns a night out into an overnight excursion.
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Yeah... you might be out of luck here. Burlington gets a lot of live music, movie theater options are hit and miss. I know a local theater in a town nearby just closed so I think there's only 2 options in the greater metro now. I'm not sure if there's a lot of theaters in the rest of the state.
 
Who said it:

“When we talk about the children of the community, they are a children of the community.”

“It is time for us to do what we have been doing, and that time is every day.”

“So Ukraine is a country in Europe. It exists next to another country called Russia. Russia is a bigger country. Russia is a powerful country. Russia decided to invade a smaller country called Ukraine. So, basically, that’s wrong.”

“The significance of the passage of time, right? The significance of the passage of time. So when you think about it, there is great significance to the passage of time."
 
Hemotep said:
Who said it:

“When we talk about the children of the community, they are a children of the community.”

“It is time for us to do what we have been doing, and that time is every day.”

“So Ukraine is a country in Europe. It exists next to another country called Russia. Russia is a bigger country. Russia is a powerful country. Russia decided to invade a smaller country called Ukraine. So, basically, that’s wrong.”

“The significance of the passage of time, right? The significance of the passage of time. So when you think about it, there is great significance to the passage of time."
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You think you just fell out of a coconut tree!?
 
Hemotep said:
Who said it:

“When we talk about the children of the community, they are a children of the community.”

“It is time for us to do what we have been doing, and that time is every day.”

“So Ukraine is a country in Europe. It exists next to another country called Russia. Russia is a bigger country. Russia is a powerful country. Russia decided to invade a smaller country called Ukraine. So, basically, that’s wrong.”

“The significance of the passage of time, right? The significance of the passage of time. So when you think about it, there is great significance to the passage of time."
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It’s Kamala but if you told me it was Trump or George W Bush or Dan Quayle I would not have been surprised.

Lots of word salad.

it definitely wasn’t Obama nor was it a Clinton (Bill or Hillary) or George HW Bush. It’s not Mike Pence or Dick Cheney or Al Gore.

I don’t think it would be Biden or Reagan either though both could misspeak but neither could fumble through foreign policy so incoherently.

Regardless it’s not a good look.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
It’s Kamala but if you told me it was Trump or George W Bush or Dan Quayle I would not have been surprised.

Lots of word salad.

it definitely wasn’t Obama nor was it a Clinton (Bill or Hillary) or George HW Bush. It’s not Mike Pence or Dick Cheney or Al Gore.

I don’t think it would be Biden or Reagan either though both could misspeak but neither could fumble through foreign policy so incoherently.

Regardless it’s not a good look.
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I honestly started to wonder if they had her do that to make Biden's faux pas seem more normal. Conspiracy nonsense, but would also not put it passed thm
 
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