Political Discussion

avecigrec said:
Some good news for a change!
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It is and it isn’t. It’s a huge majority off 36 ish peecent of the vote. Now labour have ran a fantastic campaign targeting seats rather than vote stacking where they were already strong but still. First part the post is an odd anachronism of a voting system.

This was an unusual campaign in terms of world politics. The Conservatives failed fundamentally and the electorate wanted to flog them and labour got in off an uninspiring campaign of very little other than promises of stabilisation and competency.

The bigger underlying story is reform, off the right wing of the Conservatives, winning 10% of the vote, but only 13 seats. The next uk election will absolutely see more of the polarisation you are all seeing.
 
avecigrec said:
First past the post can eat all of the dicks. It'd done it's part in decreasing our turnouts to the low/mid 30s as well. PM Prettyboy got in 9 years ago on a promise of electoral reform and then turnaround around and said, "Nah!"
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I don’t think there is a clamour for change in the voting system in the uk past the Lib Dems who look to get 61 seats off a similar vote share to the one that looks to get Reform 13 and they got embarrassed last time they put electoral reform to a referendum. The AV was all a little weird though.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
The mummified remains of Joe Biden will be a better warden to democracy than Trump and Project 2025. Biden is not going to step down and even if he did, at this point the replacement likely wouldn’t win. The Left needs to stop worrying about replacing Biden and instead concentrate on defeating Trump.
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The problem is the middle that doesn't want to vote for an old guy is now definitely not voting for a guy that they don't trust will survive the next 4 years. So they probably just won't vote or they'll throw their vote away on the brain worm, anti-vaxxer, who eats dogs if they feel they have to vote for someone to fulfil their duty as a good citizen. So then Trump wins. I think Biden should say he's not accepting the nomination and that he feels it's too important for the country to have him be a reason people vote in Trump again. Then everyone gets onboard with Kamala at Biden's request. Yes, she probably loses but at this point, you're losing with Biden because now every gaffe he has will be magnified. Every time he isn't quick to answer a question, he'll be questioned over his mental acuity. So have him step aside and then you can flip the narrative to why Trump is dangerous for this country. People who follow politics understand this. The great middle who pay passing attention to it but have said they want a younger candidate could be very open to Kamala if you present the reasons why they cannot stay home and cannot vote for Trump. Lay it out there. Of course, this would mean the Democrats would have to have a coherent message and they are terrible at messaging. I don't think you can pass Kamala for Whitmer or Newsom because then you've passed over the first African American VP and black female for a white woman or white male. So then you get a voting block that Democrats need to win swing states who may just decide to hell with it.

Change is needed but I fear Biden will stubbornly feel only he can defeat Trump. That was true before the debate. The debate solidified some people's perception that he is no longer capable of being President the next 4 years. I worry we're going to get into a RBG situation where you stubbornly hold on and it costs everyone everything and your legacy is destroyed.
 
ayayrawn said:
Of course glad to see the Tories get stomped, but Keir is basically just another center-right neolib shit, is he not?
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He’s to the right of labour but he’s to the left of the Blairites, who were the essentially the left side of the Tories in disguise. In an American context he’s probably a Communist.

It’s kind of academic, the Tories anhiliated the economy under Truss so there’s probably nothing any incoming government was ever going to be able to do other than be sensible and stabilise things.
 
mdmost said:
The problem is the middle that doesn't want to vote for an old guy is now definitely not voting for a guy that they don't trust will survive the next 4 years. So they probably just won't vote or they'll throw their vote away on the brain worm, anti-vaxxer, who eats dogs if they feel they have to vote for someone to fulfil their duty as a good citizen. So then Trump wins. I think Biden should say he's not accepting the nomination and that he feels it's too important for the country to have him be a reason people vote in Trump again. Then everyone gets onboard with Kamala at Biden's request. Yes, she probably loses but at this point, you're losing with Biden because now every gaffe he has will be magnified. Every time he isn't quick to answer a question, he'll be questioned over his mental acuity. So have him step aside and then you can flip the narrative to why Trump is dangerous for this country. People who follow politics understand this. The great middle who pay passing attention to it but have said they want a younger candidate could be very open to Kamala if you present the reasons why they cannot stay home and cannot vote for Trump. Lay it out there. Of course, this would mean the Democrats would have to have a coherent message and they are terrible at messaging. I don't think you can pass Kamala for Whitmer or Newsom because then you've passed over the first African American VP and black female for a white woman or white male. So then you get a voting block that Democrats need to win swing states who may just decide to hell with it.

Change is needed but I fear Biden will stubbornly feel only he can defeat Trump. That was true before the debate. The debate solidified some people's perception that he is no longer capable of being President the next 4 years. I worry we're going to get into a RBG situation where you stubbornly hold on and it costs everyone everything and your legacy is destroyed.
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I think you underestimate how much Black folks overall do not like Harris. She polled near the bottom with Black voters last time. She's moved up a little with Black voters since BLM has lost steam, but that's mainly because she hasn't been in the media much these last few years. I could see Biden suggesting her, but it'll be a contested convention no matter what since the delegates would be released to vote for whoever they want if Biden drops out.

And @TenderLovingKiller®, I think it's important to combat this narrative. It's not "The Left" that won't vote for Biden. The ridiculously small contingent of the left in this country is mostly willing to beat Trump at all costs and with how painfully low West (and Stein, but she's a joke to most leftists) are polling that's pretty clear from the nation-wide data. It's the Middle who feel like Trump is not going to be that bad for them if Biden loses. No one on the left who supports Racial, Gender, or Sexual equality is going to sit out and let Trump walk his way in. Biden sucks for economic equality and the environment, but so does Trump. That's the rub with the Left but with what's on the line and no primary to hash that out, it's not going to be dealt with in this election. There is a small minority of the doomer left who wants Trump to win so that the system collapses. But most other Leftists think they're idiots and regularly argue against this very small minority. The old American left is firmly in the "get to the polls for Biden" camp. And the younger leftists are active politically enough to know what's at stake. But too many people in general just don't even want to think about politics and stick their heads in the sand. That's who needs to pull their head out and beat Trump.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
Tiny victories. After 14 years of fuckery, you take the win.

It’s like they’ve been hitting themselves in the head with a hammer for 14 years. It’s a long way back but at least they’ll stop making things worse.
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Glad the tories are out, but the "not the other guy" strategy only ever works so far, as the US is currently feeling the catastrophic effects of. Hope they use their use majority to implement some change and improve people's lives or they won't be in power long.

Would be a bonus if Starmer stopped being a transphobic piece of shit too.
 
Watching the UK results from Oz. Great to see the Tories get absolutely battered. Looks like Reform (the UK Maga) might not do as well as they thought, but they have taken a lot of votes from the Tories. Didn’t expect the SNP to lose as many seats as the have in Scotland though. I thought it would be 30 seats, not 10.
 
ayayrawn said:
Glad the tories are out, but the "not the other guy" strategy only ever works so far, as the US is currently feeling the catastrophic effects of. Hope they use their use majority to implement some change and improve people's lives or they won't be in power long.

Would be a bonus if Starmer stopped being a transphobic piece of shit too.
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Show me a bolder, faster way forward and I will gladly vote for it. At this point slowing the descent feels like the most western democracy can muster at this moment.
 
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