ranbalam
Well-Known Member
Nope. But many of the people in my circle are less than thrilled to have to vote for 'anyone but Trump' but that's where we are.
Political Discussion
- Thread starter David A.
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TenderLovingKiller®
Well-Known Member
The only people that would be changing their vote potentially are low information voters. These voters didn’t watch the debate but might be swayed over the next 4 months as they hear things on the periphery about how mush brained Biden is.
The bigger threat still is the large swath of low enthusiasm Biden voters how will just decide not to vote at all. Since Trump’s support is low ceiling/high floor, any non-vote for Biden hurts him even if they aren’t swinging to Trump.
ranbalam
Well-Known Member
This is an excerpt that I found interesting from the NYT morning newsletter....
The scandal is almost as old as the United States itself: The president has a health problem that he and his aides try to shroud from the public. Only later — years later, in some cases — does the severity become clear.
The list of cover-ups is remarkably long. After a mysterious illness caused James Madison to miss meetings with senators in 1813, he blamed a watch malfunction. During Chester Arthur’s only term as president, he hid a kidney ailment that likely contributed to his death a year after he left office. Grover Cleveland’s aides lied about a surgery in 1893 — performed on a friend’s yacht — to excise a tumor in his mouth.
Woodrow Wilson spent his last year and a half as president debilitated by strokes while his wife and doctor secretly carried out some presidential duties. Franklin D. Roosevelt concealed the ailments that led to his death months after he won the 1944 election. Dwight Eisenhower’s doctor initially described his heart attack in 1955 as “a digestive upset.” John F. Kennedy’s aides lied about his Addison’s disease. Ronald Reagan’s administration hid the extent of his injuries after he was shot in 1981 and the signs of his dementia in later years. Donald Trump misled the public about the severity of his Covid illness.
The scandal is almost as old as the United States itself: The president has a health problem that he and his aides try to shroud from the public. Only later — years later, in some cases — does the severity become clear.
The list of cover-ups is remarkably long. After a mysterious illness caused James Madison to miss meetings with senators in 1813, he blamed a watch malfunction. During Chester Arthur’s only term as president, he hid a kidney ailment that likely contributed to his death a year after he left office. Grover Cleveland’s aides lied about a surgery in 1893 — performed on a friend’s yacht — to excise a tumor in his mouth.
Woodrow Wilson spent his last year and a half as president debilitated by strokes while his wife and doctor secretly carried out some presidential duties. Franklin D. Roosevelt concealed the ailments that led to his death months after he won the 1944 election. Dwight Eisenhower’s doctor initially described his heart attack in 1955 as “a digestive upset.” John F. Kennedy’s aides lied about his Addison’s disease. Ronald Reagan’s administration hid the extent of his injuries after he was shot in 1981 and the signs of his dementia in later years. Donald Trump misled the public about the severity of his Covid illness.
Changed there vote? No. But I personally know a few people who are more likely to not vote at all now.
mdmost
Well-Known Member
Right. I don't think people are going to swing from Biden to Trump based on the debate. You can't look at what Trump was tossing out and think "yeah, that's my better choice". Instead, people just won't vote or they will go the ballot and vote for things other than President or cast a 3rd party vote if they feel they have a duty to vote for someone. And all of that helps Trump win if that's in Arizona, Nevada, Georgia, Virginia, or the Rust Belt.
Nee Lewman
बैस्टर्ड
But it isn’t about the engaged. It’s about the poorly informed, the uninformed, the people who haven’t decided and against all hopes breaking the cult of Trump.
If the media isn’t giving equal coverage to Trump’s mush brain and frankly terrible platform, then none of those people are even remotely going to be persuaded otherwise and will probably vote for Trump who is at least equally deficient in the sharpness of his faculties.
You’re right… the Democratic Party as I have said time and time again, needs to make a strong stand on either backing Biden or getting someone else now. Regardless of whom that is, it still has to be take Trump to task and we can all talk about taking the dems and the process to task when the job is done. If we don’t simply take care of the bigger problem, the seemingly inevitability of a second Trump administration then we probably won’t ever get a chance to do the other things. It sucks but it’s where we are at. The dems can’t even get it together enough to get the knucklehead talked about.
Nee Lewman
बैस्टर्ड
I don’t disagree with you. But we need to sway the people that aren’t going to vote or will vote for a third party or write Mickey Mouse and hopefully change a few of Trump’s mindless followers along the way.
Nee Lewman
बैस्टर्ड
Like that’s what’s been at stake pretty much my entire voting life. The undecided voters or those that just throw their vote into the ether.
TenderLovingKiller®
Well-Known Member
Outside of Fox News and the like, the mainstream media has spent the last decade doing stories about the fucked up shit that Trump has said and done, It’s not a secret. If voters choose to willfully ignore that, there really are isn’t much that could be done regardless.
Nee Lewman
बैस्टर्ड
I agree with you. I’m absolutely certain the GOP agrees with you.
That sad thing is, these days it's rarely brought up on the mainstream media. It's all about Biden. They are talking very little about Trump.
For the most part, fact checking him is no longer a thing. They don't report on his stumbles or stupid shit he says.
If they report anything, it's about his legal issues.
TenderLovingKiller®
Well-Known Member
I think a thread of mostly middle-aged liberals with disposable income probably isn’t the best place to gauge what’s going on in the rest of America.
The last election was determined roughly by 40,000 votes split between 6 states. I still think Trump is a historically poor candidate and think the polling is skewed, weighted heavily to Trump voters but even still you would only have to get a 50k to 100k people to bail on politics all together to throw the election to Trump.
Nee Lewman
बैस्टर्ड
He is a poor candidate and this should be a slam dunk for either side. Both candidates suck. It shouldn’t be as close as it is.
TenderLovingKiller®
Well-Known Member
Currently this is true. Mainly because voters and Dems were told that as the election drew nearer we would see the stark contrast between an incompetent Trump and a competent Biden. No one watched even 5 minutes of the debate wasn’t surprised by Biden’s feebleness.
If you were to search on CNN for stories over the past decade drawing attention to Trumps shittiness and compare it to the number of stories about Biden’s feebleness, I bet Trump would win like 100 to 1.
The media has told anyone that will listen that Trump is a Shitheel from the moment he demanded to see Obama’s birth certificate. We all know who Trump is. If you replaced all those Biden stories with Trump stories over the past two weeks it changes very little.
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TenderLovingKiller®
Well-Known Member
But it’s a discussion needs to happen following the debate. Ideally it would have happened last summer during the Primary season but at this point it’s insane not to discuss alternatives.
So, do we think tonight will help or only hurt Biden more?
TenderLovingKiller®
Well-Known Member
He has not done much since the debate to quell concern. I would imagine you will see more of the same today. He needs to be extraordinary. Even if he just doesn’t fuck up too bad that isn’t going to change the narrative. Biden needs to present empirical evidence that he is sharp and he hasn’t provided that yet. If the press eats him alive tonight it might be the push he needs.
Nee Lewman
बैस्टर्ड
I hear you, but first time voters in November may have been 8 a decade ago and probably weren’t paying too much attention during Trump’s presidency either.
In addition, more then ever, young voters don't have an interest in voting. We may see record low turnout for 18 year olds this year.
As I posted earlier, a lot of high school teachers were very surprised, and concerned when asking their class if the voting age were changed to 16, would they vote in the 2024 election and where shocked to find not a single student said yes. All have said "this has never happened before".
TenderLovingKiller®
Well-Known Member
Sure, my point is that Trump’s incompetence has been well documented. It’s there for anyone willing to look and even for those unwilling to look is ineptitude is hard to ignore.
The media will run with the story until there is some sort of resolution.