Political Discussion

Fuck maybe I'm starting to drink the kool-aid but, I mean I'm not going to lie and say that's not the perfect grounds for unleashing a conspiracy theory to rule them all and that this whole assassination attempt isn't fishy.

Okay, the roof is potentially dangerous for agents to be on, sure, but how was there not a perimeter around the only building with a clear line of sight on a former President?

Also, the videos going around showing the people in attendance clearly pointing him out and flagging him down and nothing being done about it until shots got fired is strange. There were almost 3 minutes between the shooter being spotted and him opening fire. That feels like a lifetime when radio technology exists.

Why would a single Paul Blart ass officer get sent up to the roof to check on the shooter instead of that information getting relayed to a Secret Service sniper with a clear line of sight and the means to neutralize the threat.

That being said, contrary to Sean's point, there are still many reasonable explanations potentially, and I don't think you can quickly jump to conclusions to this being an inside job attempted hit by our current administration, but holyyyyyy shit the amount of fuck-ups and headscratchers being revealed in the following days makes it VERY easy to do so if you're a Trump supporter.

Also, let's not pretend like an organized assassination of an intimidating political figure is out of scope for our lovely little country.

Disclaimer: I'm a registered Democrat and am planning on voting for Biden (if I do vote).
Please vote.

Counter questions:
Who stands to win from a failed attempt? Definitely not Biden.

The US Government and its Commander In Chief, who have control over the military and intelligence assets of our country, chose a 20 year old kid who’s a registered Republican and didn’t make it even on to his high school shooting team? Instead of, say, a CIA SAC/SOG military trained sniper?

SCOTUS recently gave the President broad immunity, for “official actions,” he wouldn’t need to hide it so much. Why the conspiracy?

The Secret Service has been having a string of high profile problems going back to at least the Obama administration. Isn’t it more likely than not, that at a MAGA rally, they were just complacent and made some really galling errors in judgement?

High profile assassinations or attempts have been caused for many reasons in our country’s history. John Hinkley supposedly attempted to assassinate Reagan to get Jodie Fosters attention. With no motive known at this time, idle speculation probably is wildly off base. Who’s to say his kid wasn’t trying g to get Zendaya or some local kid he had a crush on a attention?
 
The conspiracy theories (often times from both sides) are batshit crazy.
Agreed, but in this rare case, the right's conspiracy doesn't feel that batshit and actually feels like:

"Uhhhh, damn, I can see why you'd think that."

Where as the left's conspiracy theory's on this one are more:

"Trusting someone to shoot a small sliver of your ear off and nothing else for some bonus votes feels a bit of a stretch"
 
Please vote.

Counter questions:
Who stands to win from a failed attempt? Definitely not Biden.

The US Government and its Commander In Chief, who have control over the military and intelligence assets of our country, chose a 20 year old kid who’s a registered Republican and didn’t make it even on to his high school shooting team? Instead of, say, a CIA SAC/SOG military trained sniper?

SCOTUS recently gave the President broad immunity, for “official actions,” he wouldn’t need to hide it so much. Why the conspiracy?

The Secret Service has been having a string of high profile problems going back to at least the Obama administration. Isn’t it more likely than not, that at a MAGA rally, they were just complacent and made some really galling errors in judgement?

High profile assassinations or attempts have been caused for many reasons in our country’s history. John Hinkley supposedly attempted to assassinate Reagan to get Jodie Fosters attention. With no motive known at this time, idle speculation probably is wildly off base. Whose to say his kid wasn’t trying g to get Zendaya or some local kid he had a crush on a attention?
I would like to believe in Occam's Razor here and go with The Secret Service is a joke of a security detail but thats going to be a tough sell to the Republicans who live on Twitter
 
Agreed, but in this rare case, the right's conspiracy doesn't feel that batshit and actually feels like:

"Uhhhh, damn, I can see why you'd think that."

Where as the left's conspiracy theory's on this one are more:

"Trusting someone to shoot a small sliver of your ear off and nothing else for some bonus votes feels a bit of a stretch"
My theory is “person with gun in America commits mass shooting.”

We have way too many of those here. This time a candidate and a large crowd came close to the shooter home. So, target of opportunity.
 
Agreed, but in this rare case, the right's conspiracy doesn't feel that batshit and actually feels like:

"Uhhhh, damn, I can see why you'd think that."

Where as the left's conspiracy theory's on this one are more:

"Trusting someone to shoot a small sliver of your ear off and nothing else for some bonus votes feels a bit of a stretch"
You mean that right isn't saying that Crooks was a lizard person?
 
Agreed, but in this rare case, the right's conspiracy doesn't feel that batshit and actually feels like:

"Uhhhh, damn, I can see why you'd think that."

Where as the left's conspiracy theory's on this one are more:

"Trusting someone to shoot a small sliver of your ear off and nothing else for some bonus votes feels a bit of a stretch"
It feels super far fetched either way…

Deep state would have done this quietly. Trump died in his sleep of natural causes.

Supreme Court just gave Biden immunity, too. If he ordered it, you do it in broad daylight.

I haven’t heard the theories of the left saying kid was paid to miss. But yeah that’s batshit crazy.

So are theories that the right did it to take over with their real whackjobs. These idiots would have already done it if they could.

The most likely explanation is the SS fucked up.

Also all the stories are whacky now anyhow. We’re being told it was minutes without action. The video I saw was a dude shouting hey there is someone up there and then shots being fired. Like that entire video wasn’t even two minutes.

Problem is this is so heated that there will be people on both sides who never accept what happened as the facts regardless.
 
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I just had a lengthy chat with a coworker that I really like. Over several years of working together we have talked openly and easily about many topics, from gardening to movies to politics. Today he told me he flipped to Trump. He said the shooting is part of it.
I mentioned Project 2025 and he doesn't believe that he is affiliated, and says Trump is way more moderate than MAGA and that something like a nationwide abortion ban will never happen.
I know he's always been a bit conservative, but closer to a Libertarian than a Republican. He's a Marine vet that served in Iraq, and says he just wants to be left alone. He feels a Trump administration will be indeed smaller government and less federal regulation. He asked 'how bad was life for you specifically under Trump?'
Of course I volleyed back with my thoughts on J6 and he said 'there's no way he wasn't going to leave office.' He's writing off certain things as absurdities, and yet I don't find some of the dark and dire possibilities of a second term all that absurd.

I still like him, won't write him off as a friend, and yet am disappointed.
 
I don't doubt his sincerity. I think a lot of people are fine with a little authoritarianism as long as it doesn't affect them. They just want to go to work, raise their kids, and live their lives. They think it won't affect them. When it does in some form, they will be aghast. We're incredibly myopic and narcissistic beings. The people in the margins will suffer the most and that's okay to some in the majority as long as their way of life is unaffected.
 
I just had a lengthy chat with a coworker that I really like. Over several years of working together we have talked openly and easily about many topics, from gardening to movies to politics. Today he told me he flipped to Trump. He said the shooting is part of it.
I mentioned Project 2025 and he doesn't believe that he is affiliated, and says Trump is way more moderate than MAGA and that something like a nationwide abortion ban will never happen.
I know he's always been a bit conservative, but closer to a Libertarian than a Republican. He's a Marine vet that served in Iraq, and says he just wants to be left alone. He feels a Trump administration will be indeed smaller government and less federal regulation. He asked 'how bad was life for you specifically under Trump?'
Of course I volleyed back with my thoughts on J6 and he said 'there's no way he wasn't going to leave office.' He's writing off certain things as absurdities, and yet I don't find some of the dark and dire possibilities of a second term all that absurd.

I still like him, won't write him off as a friend, and yet am disappointed.
How is Trump more moderate than the ideology he essentially founded? What from his past term suggests he will do less harm than whatever supposed damage Biden has done.

The lies people will tell themselves to justify a shitty position is impressive. Kudos to you for not writing him off.
 
I just had a lengthy chat with a coworker that I really like. Over several years of working together we have talked openly and easily about many topics, from gardening to movies to politics. Today he told me he flipped to Trump. He said the shooting is part of it.
I mentioned Project 2025 and he doesn't believe that he is affiliated, and says Trump is way more moderate than MAGA and that something like a nationwide abortion ban will never happen.
I know he's always been a bit conservative, but closer to a Libertarian than a Republican. He's a Marine vet that served in Iraq, and says he just wants to be left alone. He feels a Trump administration will be indeed smaller government and less federal regulation. He asked 'how bad was life for you specifically under Trump?'
Of course I volleyed back with my thoughts on J6 and he said 'there's no way he wasn't going to leave office.' He's writing off certain things as absurdities, and yet I don't find some of the dark and dire possibilities of a second term all that absurd.

I still like him, won't write him off as a friend, and yet am disappointed.
this is my unfortunate reality living in miami. almost every latino i know over 40 is a die hard republican and vocally pro-trump and it's insane to me. "you know he's talking about you specifically. you are the immigrant here to take 'real americans jobs' from the 'real americans' bro" and just a solid denial or hand waving. nah he's not racist, not he's not talking about me, he never said that, etc etc
 
this is my unfortunate reality living in miami. almost every latino i know over 40 is a die hard republican and vocally pro-trump and it's insane to me. "you know he's talking about you specifically. you are the immigrant here to take 'real americans jobs' from the 'real americans' bro" and just a solid denial or hand waving. nah he's not racist, not he's not talking about me, he never said that, etc etc
It goes to the younger generation too. My older daughter tells me all the time about Hispanic guys at her school who love Trump. Her school and DISD in general has a lot of families who may or may not be legally in the US. We know a few families personally and all the kids were born in the US. So if the round ups happen like Trump is straight up telling people he wants to do, they don't think someone they know or someone's family that they know might one day be gone with little idea what happened? They don't think some mistakes might happen and a person who is legally supposed to be here doesn't also get swept up because they have brown skin or a non-Anglo last name? No, they think Trump is funny and he is the personification of a teenage boy. He says what he wants. He doesn't apologize to anyone. I doubt voting age changes that perspective too much for some. There's a lot of pulling up the ladder behind you mentality that's going to have some dire consequences.
 
I was talking to a friend about this phenomena. He mentioned that latino families are apparently very good at rising to middle class/upper middle class after 2 generations or so. They benefit from the left's enabling of their ability to come to the country and start a new life with govt assistance, and once they're here and in the system generating wealth they typically begin to skew more conservative, much of that likely has to do with an increased protectiveness over their lifestyle, wealth, yada yada due to their relationship with having experienced a vastly less privileged lifestyle somewhat recently.
 
To me there are only two things genuinely odd about the attempt, and neither one is about how it was possible for it to happen.

1) Trump's immediate (instinctual?) decision to use it to his advantage. It's weird. We've all seen the gif of the bird flapping at him in his office at Trump Tower, or the time he was rushed off stage at an event where a gun in the crowd was suspected. In both cases, he cowers, flees, lets self-preservation kick in. In this case, in the heat of the moment, swarmed by agents, with gunshots having just stopped, with blood running down the side of his head, with no way of knowing whether anyone else was shooting, he...what? Stopped to put his shoes on and wave at the crowd? What made him do that? It's either a lightning-fast display of domination politics, an act of actual bravery, or an act of someone with knowledge that he's not actually in danger.

2) There's actually been no confirmation that a bullet struck Donald Trump from anyone other than Donald Trump. No medical reports, no statements about his treatment, the extent of his injuries, etc., just...nothing. We've all seen the picture of the bullet mid-air, and I'm not suggesting that it's a fake or that there were no bullets, or whatever. But don't forget that the initial reporting was that he was actually struck by glass shards or something. Saying that he was hit by a bullet makes the imagery of shouting "Fight!" much more powerful than if he was injured in any other manner.

DJT is a vortex of this kind of ambiguity, where you can't even be certain that what you're seeing with your own eyes is real anymore, and it all works to his benefit, every time. It contributes to the targets of his agenda claiming he doesn't mean them. It contributes to doubt about what it might mean when people point out that his plane was parked next to a Russian plane for multiple days a few weeks ago. It contributes to wondering if there's a possibility that maybe the deep state orchestrated an assassination attempt by ordering the Secret Service to commit an unforced error. Again, I think I referred to this the other day too, but the Bannon strategy of flooding the zone with bullshit is operating on another level now. It doesn't mean that everything you see firsthand is bullshit; but we should all be wary of every single person who is able to tell us with any degree of certainty that what we saw was actually something else (and yes, this goes for all of the spin about Biden, too). None of us is immune to propaganda. It doesn't come with a label on it.

Asking questions is fine, because I mean, what else are we going to do after seeing a situation like this unfold? But at the same time, it's also important to remember that more often than not, the simplest explanation is the right one.
Regarding point 1.

My initial thought when I saw that reaction was WTF!?!! but then I thought about it a second longer and realized the things that make Trump a terrible human being are also many of the same traits that have made him wealthy and powerful in our country. Trump understands the importance of images (think about how much he concerns himself with his appearance and the appearance of others) he is also an opportunists. The bullet was traveling from stage right to stage left, the bigger secret service agents formed a human shield backs towards the shooter with the smaller agents in between Trump and the audience and cameras covering the event. I think Trump was initially stunned (that’s why he was initially worried about his shoes, that I assume they came off when the Secret Service initially blanketed him resulting in him hitting the deck). As he was gathering himself he could likely see that his audience was stunned and that’s when he initially stuck his fist in the air. I think it was a bit like an athlete giving the crowd a thumbs up as they’re carted off the field following a bad injury. It was an indication that was going to be alright. As he punched his fist in the air the crowd roared to a frenzy. This combined with the adrenaline rush of nearly dying, caused him to react further with him and the crowd feeding off each others energy , until the Secret Service finally took control and Trump likely realized he was still in danger and was rushed off stage.
 
Regarding point 1.

My initial thought when I saw that reaction was WTF!?!! but then I thought about it a second longer and realized the things that make Trump a terrible human being are also many of the same traits that have made him wealthy and powerful in our country. Trump understands the importance of images (think about how much he concerns himself with his appearance and the appearance of others) he is also an opportunists. The bullet was traveling from stage right to stage left, the bigger secret service agents formed a human shield backs towards the shooter with the smaller agents in between Trump and the audience and cameras covering the event. I think Trump was initially stunned (that’s why he was initially worried about his shoes, that I assume they came off when the Secret Service initially blanketed him resulting in him hitting the deck). As he was gathering himself he could likely see that his audience was stunned and that’s when he initially stuck his fist in the air. I think it was a bit like an athlete giving the crowd a thumbs up as they’re carted off the field following a bad injury. It was an indication that was going to be alright. As he punched his fist in the air the crowd roared to a frenzy. This combined with the adrenaline rush of nearly dying, caused him to react further with him and the crowd feeding off each others energy , until the Secret Service finally took control and Trump likely realized he was still in danger and was rushed off stage.
I just don’t think he’s that quick to think “this will create a powerful image”, jump up and start to fist pump and do that kinda nazi salute within seconds of being shot at. I found it really bizarre too when I first saw it. Maybe he didn’t realize he was actually shot at? The whole thing is bizarre. Not sure why he kept yelling FIGHT
 
Regarding point 1.

My initial thought when I saw that reaction was WTF!?!! but then I thought about it a second longer and realized the things that make Trump a terrible human being are also many of the same traits that have made him wealthy and powerful in our country. Trump understands the importance of images (think about how much he concerns himself with his appearance and the appearance of others) he is also an opportunists. The bullet was traveling from stage right to stage left, the bigger secret service agents formed a human shield backs towards the shooter with the smaller agents in between Trump and the audience and cameras covering the event. I think Trump was initially stunned (that’s why he was initially worried about his shoes, that I assume they came off when the Secret Service initially blanketed him resulting in him hitting the deck). As he was gathering himself he could likely see that his audience was stunned and that’s when he initially stuck his fist in the air. I think it was a bit like an athlete giving the crowd a thumbs up as they’re carted off the field following a bad injury. It was an indication that was going to be alright. As he punched his fist in the air the crowd roared to a frenzy. This combined with the adrenaline rush of nearly dying, caused him to react further with him and the crowd feeding off each others energy , until the Secret Service finally took control and Trump likely realized he was still in danger and was rushed off stage.
He was likely also trying to hide the fact that he wears lifts, as they popped out of the shoes.
 
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