Political Discussion

Indymisanthrope said:
I do not think that expressing solidarity with calls for the destruction of Israel translates to an immediate 3-4 point jump in the polls.
Click to expand...

I think you can split the difference on both your claims. Half of my friend group in IL was refusing to vote for Biden because of Isreal.

I haven't talked to anyone post-Biden because I was traveling and now am sick. But a large chuck of the bump Kamala has picked up is young voters and POC who were upset about Isreal.

Those voters will go right back to not voting if she isn't careful.

Also, you're wording there is fucked. Nobody here is calling for the destruction of Isreal.
 
Indymisanthrope said:
I do not think that expressing solidarity with calls for the destruction of Israel translates to an immediate 3-4 point jump in the polls.
Click to expand...
I think there's a lot of room between solidarity with destruction of the state and the tiniest condemnation or pushback against the leader and state that have slaughtered upwards of 100k people over the last 9 months.
 
mdmost said:
What do you base this on? Some of it might be people who didn't want to vote for an old guy. I don't she raised the massive amount she did because people thought she would be changing the position on Israel.
Click to expand...

Breaking points did a polling breakdown of all the groups she's gained ground with. As did Pod Save. She's seen a big leap with both those groups and I really don't think the age has any more to do with it than Isreal based off the people I know. And there's others who are definitely waiting to see how she talks about the situation.

You even see that within the small sample size of this group.

There has long been a sense that she's been to the left of Biden on Isreal. Both based on the times she's spoken up and based off the reporting that's come out.

Speaking of which, this is a good article about the no-win situation Biden was in:

inthesetimes.com

An Untold History of Joe Biden's Support for Israel

Documents reviewed in Delaware and New York give insight into how, starting early in Biden's political career, his positions appear to have significantly changed as his relationships strengthened with a growing pro-Israel lobby.
inthesetimes.com inthesetimes.com
 
Last edited:
ayayrawn said:
I think there's a lot of room between solidarity with destruction of the state and the tiniest condemnation or pushback against the leader and state that have slaughtered upwards of 100k people over the last 9 months.
Click to expand...

Where are you getting the 100k from. Last I checked, it was 40-50k by Hamas own #'s.
 
BjorgenFjorgen said:
"Sympathy with Palestine" is the same as "calls for the destruction of Israel"?
Click to expand...
Even including something milquetoast like "we will continue striving for peace in the region, "all violence from all sides bad," or anything like that would've improved the statement. It's an extremely low hurdle to clear at this point in time. Gotta get that AIPAC money though.
 
I appreciate the idealism that @BjorgenFjorgen and @ayayrawn demonstrate but this unfortunately is the country we live in. I wish there could be a viable political candidate that shared your beliefs and you guys should continue to call out leaders and express your disdain. The sad reality of our current situation is regardless of party the US will continue to send weapons to the Netanyahu regime for defense and Netanyahu will continue using those weapons on the Palestinians people. Voting for, against, or not voting at all will not change those sad truths.
 
I get that everyone's in like in an air of optimism over Kamala and such, and I get it, but this country is just as evil and difficult to root for as it was last week. It's difficult to see Palestinians as people when the government and media are working overtime to comvince you they're not. But it's literally never been easier to see what the right side of history is than right now. Kamala is in a perfect position to stand with the majority of the country on this and make history. It's up to her to pull through, and us to try and force her if she doesn't. That's where we're at.
 
TenderLovingKiller® said:
I appreciate the idealism that @BjorgenFjorgen and @ayayrawn demonstrate but this unfortunately is the country we live in. I wish there could be a viable political candidate that shared your beliefs and you guys should continue to call out leaders and express your disdain. The sad reality of our current situation is regardless of party the US will continue to send weapons to the Netanyahu regime for defense and Netanyahu will continue using those weapons on the Palestinians people. Voting for, against, or not voting at all will not change those sad truths.
Click to expand...
A rousing campaign slogan.

TenderLovingKiller® said:
Voting for, against, or not voting at all will not change those sad truths.
Click to expand...
Glad we're starting to see eye to eye on this, though lol
 
I'm not even asking for this problem to be solved instantly. Again, I'd settle for the barest genuine sympathy for the people currently being wiped out on our dollars, and not being gaslit to my face as a terrorist sympathizer for my own. If the dem party still doesn't want to work with that, after all we see and know ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ good luck.
 
ayayrawn said:
A rousing campaign slogan.


Glad we're starting to see eye to eye on this, though lol
Click to expand...
The point is there are areas where voting does matter and if your vote makes minimal difference on that one area than it’s important to also reflect on the areas where your vote would make a huge difference.

I think most on here especially agree that the genocide happening is appalling. Some of us are just a bit more pragmatic and don’t want to cut off our nose to spite our face.
 
ayayrawn said:
I'm not even asking for this problem to be solved instantly. Again, I'd settle for the barest genuine sympathy for the people currently being wiped out on our dollars, and not being gaslit to my face as a terrorist sympathizer for my own. If the dem party still doesn't want to work with that, after all we see and know ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ good luck.
Click to expand...

I agree with your sentiments. But her statement literally says that people have the right to protest. And whether they were plants or not, there were anti-semites there. Nowhere in her statement does she say all of the protestors are wrong to be there and she avoided his speech yesterday.

Meanwhile, we have Project 2025 to fight off.

Question for you- would picking Shapiro as her running mate effect your chances of voting for her?
 
Not for nothing Harris’s statement doesn’t condemn the protesters sentiment or support Israel. It says don’t behave this way.

Again, she’s still the VP she can’t take a strong anti-Israel stance in this and I hate to tell you, again, but I would find it hard to believe if any President did after getting into office and being given the intel to the situation by the NSA, CIA and Pentagon. The best we can hope for is strong referendums and sanctions aimed at Netanyahu. With Russia and China supporting Iran we can’t and won’t abandon Isreal and not arming them would lead to their fall. It’s a fubarred situation.
 
I would argue that not showing up for his speech, which would've included her introducing him as the highest presiding officer of the Senate, was pushback. She knows his visit is to help Trump get elected. She's also meeting him in the Old Executive Office Building and not in the White House. She is playing the game as it has been presented to her and she has to toe a fine line to win in November.
 
MyWifeHatesTrain said:
I do hate anti-flag burning talk though. It’s what you are supposed to do to a soiled flag. It’s a powerful statement lost in a dumb Murica argument of “unpatriotic behavior.”
Click to expand...
There's certainly a difference between disposing of a soiled flag through incineration and burning a flag in protest to make a point. I think the latter still falls under freedom of speech, and while it's alarming, that's the entire point.

But don't get me started on Flag Code. This Eagle Scout really wants to print business cards with the flag code on them to leave in the windshield wipers of Dodge Rams flying shredded flags in the name of patriotism, or to hand to folks who adorn themselves with them as clothing. It's absolutely wild how far people will disrespect their flag in the name of patriotism.
 
Bull Shannon said:
There's certainly a difference between disposing of a soiled flag through incineration and burning a flag in protest to make a point. I think the latter still falls under freedom of speech, and while it's alarming, that's the entire point.

But don't get me started on Flag Code. This Eagle Scout really wants to print business cards with the flag code on them to leave in the windshield wipers of Dodge Rams flying shredded flags in the name of patriotism, or to hand to folks who adorn themselves with them as clothing. It's absolutely wild how far people will disrespect their flag in the name of patriotism.
Click to expand...
Blacked out ones on Jeeps and Punisher logos colored by it are far more offensive to me than a protest statement about how the government is disrespecting what the flag stands for.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top